Well Shiny, we have plans to chill out and watch videos today. I told H after our last MC session that "we'll talk" is something I wanted to do Sunday (tomorrow) and not put off for years.
I know it will be excruciating for both of us in many ways. I want to try not to let my emotions get the best of me, and try to learn as much as I can about all of the stages of what went wrong---for future reference and for being proactive about not ever having this happen again.
It helped me to see your post about CJ's "I'm sorry" email. When H and I were at the point of deciding whether or not to try to reconcile, he wrote me a long letter.
He described that he was so sorry and felt so guilty that it made him feel physically sick to know that he had betrayed me--his best friend, his partner that he loved and respected. He asked me to forgive, but knew that neither one of us would ever really be able to forget and worried that this would all be some dark cloud hanging over us. He said that he knew full-well the damage he'd done and that saying "I'm sorry" seemed so lame in light of the magnitude of the betrayal.
These are all thing that I need to keep in the front of my mind when we talk. I know that, like CJ, my H is going to be struggling with self-forgiveness for a long time.
I know that he'd love to have this talk over with and never ever have the subject come up again. I want him to see that, from my perspective, never talking about it again would be a big mistake. Like you, I need to be able to say, "this is the annaversary of such and such or something really triggered me today".
Isolating and not communnicating--suffering and ruminating over deep, dark emotional stuff is a big part of what got us in trouble in the first place! We've made a lot of progress on communicting better, so I think it would be a step backward to not be able to talk about the results and aftermath of his A.
It all seems like a very fine line that I'm going to have to walk. Please wish me luck!
Hi Tal, I'll not only "wish you luck" I'll send prayers, and calming energy over to you tomorrow. That what needs to be revealed will be, that it will be an "exorcism" of sorts and although likely painful for you both, the start of an even better period in your R.
You have spoken for me when you said: I know that he'd love to have this talk over with and never ever have the subject come up again. I want him to see that, from my perspective, never talking about it again would be a big mistake.I need to be able to say, "this is the annaversary of such and such or something really triggered me today". Isolating and not communnicating--suffering and ruminating over deep, dark emotional stuff is a big part of what got us in trouble in the first place! We've made a lot of progress on communicting better, so I think it would be a step backward to not be able to talk about the results and aftermath of his A.
I have said so many times in my posts that I feel that I'm the one going THROUGH the pain, while my H is determined to find HIS way AROUND it. And you and I and others who've been betrayed KNOW that there's no shortcut to healing the trust issues, and until they accept that, our Ms will NOT be better.
I wish you great success in your R talk with your H tomorrow, I hope you receive your answers and that he finally sees the responsibility he has to give them to you. T2
HI Tal, I'm happy to hear that your H is seeing things as a team with you. I think in my sitch that too is a common problem-we would both get into the "me" syndrome and the "you" syndrome...gotta be a team, gotta be partners in this journey called marriage. I admire the way you are able to get in such fine tune with your feelings and be able to communicate all that to your H and he's receiving it very well too!!! I think my H failed to express his feelings often times because he didn't think I'd respond to him "properly"--think he was afraid I wouldn't validate them. Thanks for the compliment on my 180's--I'm going to keep trying and hope that it works..if not I'll try something else--I'm not giving up or giving in! I want him back home!!! Good Luck with your R talk tomorrow, I'll be checking in here with you as I'm sure so will others--remember we're all with you and thinking of you--good thoughts only!! Lots of PMA!!!
I've just caught up on your thread and am floored!
That whole business with the "payback" was remarkable. I had to pick my jaw up off the floor before laughing myself into tears. The best part was the team work that came from your H. Incredible!
Your situation appears to be launching into a new realm. The switch has been flipped!!!
Well, as much as he would have loved to avoid it, "we'll talk" did happen.
Basically, Shiny hit it right on when she said, "not much of an OW, not much of an A". Because I didn't have enough info, I was filling in the blanks in a bad way.
He was (as he knows now) very depressed and in a very self-absorbed, self pitying frame of mind. He honestly thought that I didn't love him anymore & that it was "only a matter of time before I asked him to leave". He had a friend at work (OW) who was encouraging him to talk about all of the self-pity stuff, telling him what he wanted to hear, and encouraged his negative frame of mind. Note to self and others: Typical OW tactics, enit?
He said that one day, and he still doesn't understand why, he attempted sex with her (unsuccessfully). He said that he apologized big time for that & told her that he didn't understand why he'd done that. After that, he felt guilty toward her and about her. She got emotionally attached after that incident and started with the "ILY's". She tried to initiate sex twice more after that. He said he wasn't encouraging her attention, but that his ego did get something out of it. He said he kept telling her that he only thought of her as a friend, and was really hurting because he was in love with me and thought my feelings for him had died.
He said that at the time, he'd just thought it was nice to have a friend "that really listened" to him, but now realizes that she was just encouraging his bad attitude and depression for her own agenda. (More typical OW crap, enit?)
He said that, in retrospect, he was betraying me from the first time he started meeting her alone for lunch and didn't tell me. He said that he can clearly see how he stepped over the line, little bit by little bit. At the time, though, he'd felt like the whole thing went from 0-to-50 and then he couldn't understand how he'd gotten caught up in a situation that ended up making him feel trapped and even worse about himself.
After I confronted him, he was really floored by my behavior. He'd convinced himself that I not only didn't care, but had been looking for an opportunity to rid myself of him. Because he'd been acting like such a jerk, who was cold and rejecting toward me, I had been convinced that he was unhappy with me and wanted to leave me.
Both of us were sure that the other wanted out, so we were putting on emotional armor to try to protect ourselves from the pain we were sure was coming. The armor we were wearing served to reinforce each other's perceptions.
It feels so sad and foolish, looking back. How could we two, who really do love each other very much, have fallen into that trap.
I don't think he woke up from his delusional state for several months after the bomb. He'd been so entrenched in his perception of me, that he believed that I only wanted him back because I "hate to lose" and that if he came home, I'd wait awhile & then kick him out.
My behaviour didn't fit that perception, though. He was really confused about why I was acting so devistated and hurt to the core. As hard as it was for me express how hurt, betrayed, and angry I felt, I'm glad I did because that's what finally woke him up and pulled him out of lala land.
He said that once he did realize that I did and always had cared very much, then he had to face all the guilt and self-recriminations--knowing that my pain was real, and that he'd caused it and wondering how the heck he could have been so wrong and f**ked up so badly.
That's it--that's the story. It's an accurate picture of how two deeply insecure people can totally tank a perfectly good R. Understanding what we did does help find the places where we need to fix the cracks in the foundation, because we really screwed up and don't ever want to go through anything like this again.
I wouldn't wish this kind of experience on anyone else (with the exception of B-U). Both of us have been through a lot of difficult things in our lives, but this by far has been the most painful. I feel like we've been through a trial by fire.
Note to any OW's out there who read theses bb's: if you are ever in B-U's place, tell the guy to pull his head out of his butt, go get some Viagra and go home and tell his wife how much he loves her. He'll figure it out eventally on his own, but save yourself, the guy, his wife and kids a lot of hurt.
Quote: He'd been so entrenched in his perception of me, that he believed that I only wanted him back because I "hate to lose"
This, in a nutshell, was what kept my W from believing that I loved her, and that the changes I was making would be permanent ones. On the other hand, it feels damn good to have won!
Congratualations again. There are so many sad stories on these boards. It's so good to read about your success.
of PMA!!! 
