Peicing but Angry and Confused.......HELP !

[native]

Also, she identified the year after our D was born as being the time she can't forgive me for. I was a bastard she says.

Which is very hard to hear since although I do recall coming home at 6 and seeing dishes piled up in the sink and nothing ready for dinner and being upset about it, there wasn't a whole lot else that comes to mind.

In fact when I ask for specifics she refuses to give them.

It seems sometimes that the major reason for the seperation and her negative feelings for me is always a moving target. Is that common ?

we had some decent conversation however. I breached the issue about our D and how D had made it clear to me she preferred to be at home with me and that she thought that Mommy did not really want her. The first time I said it, W seemed to accept it. When I began to go into detail and reiterate for clarification, she got defensive and a little accusatory.

But overall it went better than I expected. I was really afraid she was going to lose it, because she has in the past when I addressed this issue.

Conversations like this always deteriorate rapidly but eventually seem to come to a place of sanity.

I think she's been alone with her fearful and anxious thoughts for too long and it makes her a little overreactive.

Also, I had asked her to forgive me for specific things I had become aware of about 5 weeks ago. She still cannot forgive me. I would hate to be her right now. To have that much anger and unforgiveness cant be good.

It is true that the WAS that we are interacting with now doesn't really seem like the same person we thought we knew up until the announcement. Its like a demon has taken over or something. Not the same person. I don't really know this person, though I have known my W for 9 yrs. ( And tried to love and care for her all that time too).

I don't know what the hell really happened when it comes down to it. No more than I knew before it happened. Its just a change in attitude and choice that I cannot relate to.

I need your prayers, anyone. I am really sad tonight.

[saffie]

Native,

I am sorry you are at this hard place and that your D is having to suffer in this way too.

Your W sounds as though she has major problems and I would question whether or not she has had the right type of C for the last few years. She needs to seek help and cure herself before she can work on your M. She sounds seriously depressed.

All you can do is look after yourself and your D and try to protect your D from the worst of the fall out.

[native]

I think you are right. She has a new counselor, but says she has stopped going for lack of $$$. She hadn't asked me for $$$ or I would have gladly paid for it.

Not sure whether this counseler will be any better.

Fact is, W doesn't seem to put much into practice. (There has been some improvement). She uses counseling sessions as a time to 'share her feelings' and that seems to be all that ever gets accomplished. Is the counselor to blame or my W ? Prob. both share some responsibility in the lack of actual progress.

While sharing feelings is important, it seems to me she will never move beyond her present level of bad relationship coping mechanisms unless she gets some new thoughts and habits into her life.

Just my 2cts.

[saffie]

I found that I got nowhere with a C who just 'shared' my feelings. I knew what my feelings were....I didn't know how to cope with then.

I changed to a solutions orientated C; a cognitive behavioural therapist - haven't looked back since. But I did want to get better.

[native]

How do you find a solutions oriented C? is that what cognitive behavioural therapy is?

W was with a counselor (recently) who seemed solution-oriented but switched. She said she bonded with the new counselor better.

I read somewhere that if the WAS is unable to forgive then efforts to work on the relationship by the LBS are almost futile. Maybe it was in DR.

Anyway, W relishes wallowing in feelings. Any attempt to move her from the world of feelings to the world of thought and action has been unsuccessful. 'She's and emotive thinker' the very first counselor of 7 yrs. would tell me. I think this C knew what was up. Problem was, C gave W homework which would be dropped somewhere when she got home and never looked at again.

[native]

Saffie, Dr. Love, Hopeforfortune, Redheadwife, everyone reading this thread;

In light of my wife's deep depression and her habit of blaming it on me,I am considering a letter that is modeled on an example of a spouses response to his wife's depression after a car accident from KLA.

That particular H found that encouraging his W to do the things that would help her get better was backfireing so he took an opposite tact. He told her he realized he was expecting too much and that he needed to adjust his expectations to accept that she would remain physically limited and incapable of living the type of lifestyle they had before the accident. This had the effect of causing the W to actually do the things her doctor told her would make her better and her whole PMA changed.

Here is a rough draft. Please feel free to comment:

I have been giving our situation a lot of thought and after quite a lot of consideration, I realize that for years now I have expected too much from you.

In light of your poor health, depression and other issues, I now realize that I was really off-base in expecting or hoping that you would be able to weather the demands of a family and marriage, much less learn new ways of healthy interaction that would rebuild our relationship.

The real miracle is that you were able to give yourself so completely to your job, friends, student-workers and strangers in spite of your unhappiness.

Though I wasn't the perfect husband and I faced a steep learning curve that I was unprepared for, I also realize that no matter what I have learned recently (perhaps had I even learned it way back when) or how much I am able to change will ever be enough for you, as I cannot go back into the past and undo my hurtful words or actions. I can only apologise and learn from it.

It is unfortunate, but I expect that all the insights I have gained from this may never be applied towards the repair of our marriage.

Though I know God forgives me, I don't expect or require you to. As for me, I needed to learn a lot to have ben able to be what you needed in a partner. But I know this situation has worked good in my life, better preparing me to have successfull, mutually fulfilling relationships in the future.

I'm sorry that you feel I have ruined your life. In spite of my best intentions, I made a number of mistakes. But considering your life is ruined and may always remain so without much hope of it ever changing, I will adjust my expectations of you and look in other directions for my own needs and happiness.

It is very dissapointing that our 9 years together have meant nothing but tragedy for you. I am deeply saddened that I was not able to be the partner you needed, to help you become a happier person.

I hope you find the fulfillment you are looking for and the help you need to weather the stresses of life and overcome your deep sadness.

Philip

[sgctxok]

I think it is worth a try...and should be more brief...maybe about half the size. I hope it works well for you. (It may take a bit of time...but it already has, right?)

[saffie]

Native,

The first thing I would say is that your W has to WANT to get better.

There are bits of the letter that I could feel would have elicited a positive response from me when I was wanting to get better from my depression....but to be honest....when I was in the depths of it NOTHING helped me. I had to work my way through in my own time until I was ready to improve.

My H tried all sorts to speed the process up and to help me.....and none of it helped.I don't believe you can push someone into getting better; it has to come from within.

Going back to the cognitive behavioural therapy, (CBT), yes...it is solutions orientated. It gives one a method for coping with things - it teaches you knew ways of viewing situations. However, like any type of C or therapy, it will be ineffective if the person needing it either doesn't like the person providing the C or therapy or if they really are not invested in the process. It took me SEVERAL attempts over many years before I finally opened up.....and it was the scariest thing I think I have ever done.....and there are still places I have not explored with my therapist....but I don't actually feel I need to go there with him as he has taught me so well I can apply the principles to those areas without going over them with him. I hope that makes sense.

The person that I went to see for CBT was a clinical psychologist - I hope that helps.

I'm not sure about the letter.....but if you feel you don't know what else you can do what is there to lose?

[native]

SG,

I am going to sit on this letter for a while, and edit it. Like Michele has noted, timing is a big factor in the success of any particular approach.

Saffie,

thanks for the insight to depression. I have been depressed before, but I don't think I can fully understand what it is like for my W or anyone who has been clinically diagnosed for depression. I know that W has experienced a lot of (self-imposed?) misery.

The mild depression I have experienced in life took an active process of changing my thinking about me, others, life and God to pull out of. Today I enjoy a pretty even keel emotionally, but when I do get frustrated or worried, my feelings are picked up by and amplified in my W. Her counselor described her as a 'Clarasynthic' (sp?) i.e. someone who's emotional experience is easily affected by those around them. As if she had no personal filters against others intense emotions.

"I had to work my way through in my own time until I was ready to improve."

This helps me to give her breathing room. Again, it is hard to imagine the enormity of what she is dealing with. By the time depression becomes a chemical imbalance it must be like being trapped in quicksand; what a horrible thought.

It is hard to remember that because of this condition, she may say horrible things about me, things I don't recognize as true. I'm far from perfect, but if I took her trashings to heart, I would be in a ward by now.

[saffie]

It is hard to remember that because of this condition, she may say horrible things about me, things I don't recognize as true. I'm far from perfect, but if I took her trashings to heart, I would be in a ward by now.

I am glad you can see this. It was me being like this that I think drove my H into having his A. I certainly was not blameless in it all anyways.

Good luck.