Dan, you're being a good dad, you're providing what your kids need--stability. You have the respect of everyone here for doing it--and it's a quiet esteem, but what you're doing means a great deal--not as esteem from us...but something real and long-term for their happiness.
It is in the shelter of each other that people live.--Irish proverb
Thank IAL. I know that I'm fulfilling my responsibilities even though there is plenty of me that wants to run off and MLC all over every one and every thing. But, I'm a man and I can't do that.
I'm pretty close to the confrontation.
OK, so way back when things were really nuts, I got a referral to a divorce lawyer. Sadly, he works near where I work, not near where I live. So, my referral gave me a couple of referrals. I talked to one of them several months ago on the telephone and today I called him again to ask for a referral to an investigator. I talked to the investigator and we discussed what she could and couldn't do for me and what that would likely cost. She could follow my wife around and report back who she was with and what she was doing, but, that she wasn't going to be snapping pictures into people's houses or getting into medical records and that the surveillance would run $85-$100/hr and probably $3000-$5000 in total. She recommended saving the money for the divorce and said that in 15 years of doing this work, she has never failed to find the hallmarks of an affair. People already know what's going on and just need someone else to confirm it for them.
So, since using an investigator makes little sense. I went through the van again while W was inside at work. It reeks of cigarette smoke as she has taken up smoking. I didn't know it then, but, when we met and for a while after we started dating, she would smoke one or two while out at the bar. I'm estimating that she is going through a pack every 3-4 days. I also found a card saying "Thinking of you makes me smile with my heart" or something to that effect and I'm pretty sure it isn't for me. No real news here, nothing that I didn't already know. It's just more information to help me convince myself about what's going on.
I'm not ready yet to have the discussion with her. I want to get her work schedule for next week and make an appointment with the lawyer for while she is at work and then to have the discussion with her a couple of hours before she has to be at work. I feel that she will likely be more rested than trying to grab her after work and that she needs to get to work will put a time limit on things. Then, I will spend the next few days figuring out what points I want to hit and rehearsing what to say.
I do still love her and I do still hold out hope for us to build a new relationship. I just don't see it happening until she gets some sense knocked into her head. She is cake eating in the worst way. I posted over on HTTE's thread that I suspect that my W believes that she has things under control and that she specifically has me under control. When I confronted her in mid-July, she vehemently denied screwing around and then turned the tables, becoming the injured party and declaring that my snooping was the last straw and we are getting divorced. I continued with the same old Mr. Nice Guy behavior and the intervening two months have been more of the same. I all but begged her to not file for a divorce right away saying that I was working on being a better Dad and I would slip into survival mode if she filed. I continued to do nice thoughtful things like make dinner and bake a cake for her birthday, get her coffee when I knew she was coming over to the house, take her and the kids to the Taste of Colorado and inviting her to spend my birthday with me. Because this is more of the same behavior, I believe it will tend to reinforce her feeling of knowing the score and having me under control. However, I've also grown whole and found some self-respect and it is more important than my marriage.
All of that is to say that I believe she will be quite shocked when I tell her that I have plenty of proof of her affairs and that I have an appointment with a lawyer after we are done talking. I'm not at all sure how she will react to finding out that her map of the world was wrong.
I want to thank everyone who has helped me to this point. I doubt I could have grown up without your help. I'm not happy things are where they are in my life and in my marriage. I am glad to know you. I'm glad that I can sometimes be a help to you all as well, and I'm awfully glad you all were here when I was going crazy and feeling like I was going to have a breakdown.
I think your wife is going to be very surprised by your resolve. Taking a "tough stance" can be especially effective when it represents a "180" for the betrayed spouse -- when their prior style was too pleasing/rescuing/accommodating. It's not recommended when your prior behavior was legitimately too controlling (I say "legitimately" because 90% of cheating spouses will accuse their betrayed spouse of being "controlling," even when there's been ZERO prior marital complaints of this. It's just that they don't like being told that they can't have an affair!).
If it makes you feel any better, your wife's words and behavior here are entirely SCRIPT:
Quote:
When I confronted her in mid-July, she vehemently denied screwing around and then turned the tables, becoming the injured party and declaring that my snooping was the last straw and we are getting divorced.
Just read these boards, or those over at Marriage Builders, and you'll see those exact same words, hundreds of times!
You don't need to waste your money on a PI. Just tell her "I know what you're doing, and I have evidence of it," and then refuse to tell her what your evidence is. You'll have the really cool benefit of "she doesn't know what you DON'T know" going for you. It works very well.
If your going to do it, and I still have reservations I have to say but support you in your decision, then I like Puppy's strategy. Also, in my view, setting a few boundaries with her would be a really good thing for you.
Oh, I do hope to meet you one day and grab a pint. You've been a real help these last couple of months.
I still have reservations too, but, when I weigh my self-respect against continuing down this path of lying and being a doormat, self-respect wins. I don't necessarily intend to file for a divorce right away even though I'm going to go and talk to an attorney. But, like Amy, I will sit down and calmly decide on a date to bring things to an end if she insists on continuing down the path she is currently walking.
you're a great help to me too Dan - honestly you should see all the different interpretations of the text on my thread that went through my head - I could have filled a whole thread with them! A pint sounds most welcome!
I entirely see your points below and understand. I think firm but fair is the way forward. And I also think that talking to an attorney (I assume that would be a solicitor?!) is a not a bad thing too, it is good to be armed with information to know where you stand but not necessarily to use. Knowledge is power, but ignorance is bliss sometimes
We seem to have gone throught the similar turmoil of not knowing when our wives were coming back from the bars. Both our wives seem to be addicted to the attention of other men. I also believe that you are sticking it out like I did because of you hold your vows highly and of your committment to keeping your family intact. Very noble and honorable.
I agree with the others in that you dont need proof. Your W knows she is having an affair and the lies and secrecy are a big part of it. It would be nice if she would fess up, but then that would be the end of the fantasy secret life.
You should see an IC to help as a life coach. When I saw one, she helped me to set a date for when to say enough is enough. That all changed for me when my W included the kids as part of her A. I struck hard and fast by filing and got a protective restraining order in place.
Since filing, there was a lot of times that and it seemed that W was giving serious consideration to coming back. I somewhat think the biggest mistake I did was talking with too many friends and family about our troubles. I believe W thought that on top of regaining my trust and faith that she would be faced with regaining all the others trust and faith as well. Too big of a mountain for her to climb.
If you did not have kids, would you have filed by now?
You are taking the right and moral path. Strength and Honor - strength to do the right thing even if it hurts you and honor to always do the right thing.
Hi Kerry, I haven't had time to read about your adventure, but, I'm finding there are plenty of guys in the same boat here. I do have an IC and I'm planning on getting together with him soon to talk about the path forward. I've kept things close to my chest for the most part.
Would I have filed already if I didn't have kids? I doubt that things would be much different. I probably would have tried to join her in her adventures. If nothing changed, then, I was still so co-dependent that I would have continued to hang on and try and change things around. It was only 6 weeks ago that I finally started to stand on my own with an identity that doesn't depend on her. Now, I have self-respect. Then, I didn't. So, I still probably wouldn't have filed, but, I think that I would have less conflict about filing for divorce.
Hey, Dan! You are doing good. I think you are clearer than you realize on your path forward! And, who knows, knowing that you indeed know, may make the running around a lot less fun.
My H has indicated (although I don't necessarily believe the whole story) that his R with OW isn't going the way he thought it would. I think that's mostly cause now she knows I know...maybe it's not as much fun for her now that she's not having to sneak around!
Just hang in there! We are all here rooting for you!!!
Amy
Me 39 H 36 S 7 S 4 T 15 M 12 H out 8/1/08 OW confirmed 8/6/08 D final on 6/12/09...I'm doing good!
you're a great help to me too Dan - honestly you should see all the different interpretations of the text on my thread that went through my head - I could have filled a whole thread with them! A pint sounds most welcome!