Today was pretty emotional all the way around. I got a raise today & it was more than expected. I was in a great mood about that & all the kudos I'd gotten about my work.
I talked to a woman who works in one of our businesses and sidelines making wedding cakes. She pulled out a book of photos and I started thinking about what kind of cake I want. That got me thinking about the other plans that have to made...what kind of dress...what kind of rings.
After I got home, I remembered this bueatiful vintage wedding dress I had inherited. I had tried it on once about 15 years ago and it was the most beautiful thing I'd ever put on. The under-dress is and apricot silk (I think they call it bias cut) and the dress itself is pale apricot and completely made of handmade french lace. I think the dress was made in the 1920's. As I recall, the dress was cut very slender in the waist and I wondered if I could still fit in it. I tried it on and it fits fine as I'm still pretty slender.
....after dinner, my 19 year old son and his girlfriend tell me to sit down because they have been contemplating whether or not to tell me about something for weeks.
Son's girlfriend's mom is a nurse, as my H is. It's a small area and alot of them know each other or work with each other at different places at different times. The girlfriend's mom was getting an ear full of gossip from a male nurses aid. He told her that at another place he worked at, there was a nurse who was his supervisor. The (male) nurse had been having an A with a woman there, and got busted by his "wife". He said the A is still going on and they are conspiring to get another person fired so that she could then work the same shift as the guy she was having the A with. The first names used were of H and OW. He described my H in very specific terms.
Girlfriend's mom told girlfriend and my son. They talked about it for several weeks & decided that I should know.
This was a bit different than finding those old computer messages from OW to my H. I knew those were remnents from the past, even though it hurt like hell.
This new thing--this gossip was worse. I think my biggest fear is that I'm doing all of this work and forgiveness and trying to rebuild having trust--only to find out that I've been suckered and that the betrayal has continued all along. Strangly, I'm more afraid of that than I am of H deciding he's done with our R and leaving me.
I knew I wouldn't be able deal with this without completely freaking out unless I talked to H face to face. I know that it's also probably manipulative on my part, but I KNEW that if I caught him off guard and asked him directly to his face, I'd know by his eyes if he was lying--just as I did when I first confronted him about the A.
So.....I tried to keep as calm as possible & drove to his work. I had him paged and waited for him. While there, OW walked by and gave me the goofiest smile. All I could think of was how he could have even TOUCHED her...I'm always caught by surprised at how UGLY she is!!!
I asked H to come outside for a smoke with me and I very calmly told him what I had heard. I told him that I hadn't wanted to freak out or accuse him, but wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and show him the respect of coming to ask him directly.
I didn't see fear in his eyes, only anger. He stated adamantly that "it" was and has been completely over. He was very pissed about people gossiping and said the whole place was a freaking soap opera and maybe he'd just have to go and make an announcement on the PA system.
At some point during his rant, I think he realized that his irritation was probably nothing near the magnitude of what I was feeling & struggling with. After he calmed down a bit, I told him that it was very hard for me to deal with the sitch of him working with that butt-ugly woman everyday. I told him that I struggle with my emotions about his betrayal on a daily basis and just wasn't sure if I could talk to him about it without him getting defensive & feeling like I was rubbing it in his face.
He said he definately wanted me to come to him to talk about those things and how much he regretted having done this to me. I told him that I wanted him to keep looking for another job because I just didn't know if I could keep having to deal with gossip like that coming back around to me and want to give him the benefit of the doubt but that it was difficult to do at times after all of the lies.
I feel pretty confident that he's telling me the truth, I actually think it would be difficult for him to hide it from me, but still.....
He called later after I got home. I apologized for surprising him with all of that at work. He said he was glad I came to him. Then he went back to bitching about "all the gossips who need to get a life".
More than anything right now, I just feel deeply sad and wonder why.
Wow- I can't even imagine the ride you have taken today with all this!!! I'm glad you were able to confront H about the gossip and he was able to reply back to you in an appropriate manner---and if your gutt tells you to believe him, then do. You wonder why you feel sad--because just when you thought you had all your emotions in check you were thrown for a loop and now know that this can happen again--your emotions may get tossed around from time to time--the key to remember is that you are constantly working on you and your M with H--it's a long road from forgiveness--but I don't think we ever forget, we can put it in the back dark parts of our minds--to a place that only something like this will bring it to the front of our minds...!! Hang in there--you have done nothing wrong and your emotions/feelings are totally normal and justified!! And Clearly H has a deep love for you and wants to make things right between the two of you.
You did make me chuckle with your remark to how surprised you are at how "UGLY" she is each time you see her--the OW is always UGLY!!! Guess some aren't--but in my case she is butt ugly too--and everyone has made it a point to tell H this--just in case he is experiencing vision problems!!! Actually, I think it makes them feel better to be with someone "less than" themselves because it helps to justify what they are doing!!! I tend to look at it as, I know I'm the better woman from all angles!!! Eat your heart out H!!! Cheer up T!! It will get better and I still see great things and a happy ending for you both!!! A new job for H would be perfect and would help to alleviate any doubts/concerns you may still be having!!! Take Care, Pam
Oh my God talitsa! You handled that so amazingly well. I am not surprised you feel sad your emotions have been really put through the ringer, it's always worse to get bad news when you have been feeling happy. I think you are right to give him the benefit of the doubt. Gossip can last long after the fact and it always gets embellished. Someone along the line has picked up this old story and decided to give it new life.
Do you think they pick butt ugly OWs to show us that it really is a cry for help and not serious? To kind of give themselves a safety catch on not getting too involved?
It is interesting what you say about your H maybe having some kind of quirk where he can't do long-term R's. I sometimes wonder of my H is the same way. For the longest time his folks kept saying to me - we can't believe he's married, we never thought he'd get married. It was pretty freaky I can tell you.
Anyhow, you take care, sounds like you have got over another big hurdle with style again
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Yesterday WAS a rollercoater ride that felt like the early days after the bomb.
My logical brain tells me that the gossip doesn't make sense. I don't think H would be doing all of this work in individual counseling and MC--moving back home & starting to plan this wedding if he were still involved with fuzzy-haired albino coyote ugly woman.
My intuition hasn't been sending up any red flags either. My intuition is a very devloped part of me. When H began EA--I definately KNEW something was wrong, but couldn't quite put my finger on it. I felt that H wanted to leave me, but wasn't quite sure why. When EA became PA, H became somewhat less distant with me, but my alarm bells were going off all over the place. Little things that didn't fit. Very specific dreams.
How many betraying spouses can say they got busted because their medicine man ancestor kept coming to their betrayed spouse in dreams and SHOWING her what was going on! I mean even to the point of showing me what OW looked like! I think PA was only about 3 weeks in when I confronted him about all this. How's that for a way to get busted and never feel like you could get away with such a thing again?
He should have known that my gifts were strong enough to see through the lies. He should have known, after all these years that there is a very strong connection between us on a spiritual level--and breaking that connection would come at a very high cost. That's one of the big things that made me choose to try to work on this R. I don't want to have to face my Creator and say I was to bitter and proud to try to take better care of the gift we were given.
THOUGHTS ON BUTT-UGLY OW's: I've heard from a lot of men about how the visual part is much more of an aspect of their sexual response. Given that, I seriously wonder how my H could have warped his vision enough to have sex with such a truly homely woman...much less have had an EA with her!!!
I don't think about my looks much, but people tell me frequently that I am very pretty and have a great body. H tells me that he thinks I am very beautiful and "exotic looking" and is still very physically attracted to me. I get a lot of comments about looking like Irene Beddard (if anyone has seen the movie Smoke Signals, she's the Native actress that Victor and Thomas go to see in Arizona after Victor's dad dies). Either that or people tell me that I look like Cher (I never feel like that is really a compliment).
I notice all the time that men stare at me, get crushes on me and follow me around like they are puppy dogs and I am wearing bacon for perfume. ESPECIALLY the non-native guys who have some vision in their heads about "Indian maidens" or some-such. I'm tall and slender and well-proportioned.
I have always felt very uncomfortable by these comments and the attention. I often feel resentful and exposed when guys look at me or follow me around. I don't give a dang about what anyone besides my H thinks about my looks.
I try and try to figure out what the heck H could have possibly been attracted to in OW!!! She's got fuzzy carrot red hair, deathly pale white/blue skin and it looks like someone took all of her facial features and smashed them all together in the middle of her face! I can't see even one aspect of her that he would be physically attracted to! I wonder if he had to dress her up in lingerie, high-heels and put a bag over her head in order to have the "two attempts and one partial-success" that he had in trying to have sex with her.
I know I'm being a bit catty, but if you gave that comedian Carrot Top a sex-change and badly botched plastic surgery.....
Personality-wise, she's also a lot of the things that my H doesn't have much respect for.
What you guys have said here about butt-ugly OWs make a lot of sense, but I still struggle with "what the HECK was he THINKING!!!" and "how COULD he have???" and feeling embarrased for him!
All I can figure is that he was enamored with being able to go to her quiet little cabin as opposed to coming home to a family & house full of teenagers. Aside from that---her feeding his ego so much must have made him deaf and blind.
I'm so confused about how THAT could have been my competition.
Back to business. I guess LL described it very well in a post I read of her's recently. The wound is deep and the scar will always be there. It really comes down to whether you want to split up (divorce) and still be scarred, or try to work on your R despite the scar.
I've seen so many of the good people on the bb here struggle with their need for reassureance from their spouses. I would like to have much more of that than I get from my H.
I know that he's the type that thinks I should know by his actions. In one of our MC sessions, I was talking about feeling taken for granted and overburdened by the house, the bills, the kids because H works nights and that leaves me with most of the responsibilities. He said, "I told you that I appreciated you for all of that. Remember that card I wrote you? I acknowledged all of that and told you how much I appreciate you for that".
I said, "Babe, you wrote me that card 6-years ago". He said, "I guess I thought that since I'd said it once, I didn't need to keep saying it".
At this point, the MC was BELLY-LAUGHING at us!
I know that isolating with our feelings and not trying to communicate or work like a team has been a big problem for us. I know I would feel better if I were hearing from H that he's being totally honest with me now, that he will do whatever is necessary not to have this EVER happen again, etc. I wish I didn't have so much trouble talking to him about the struggles I still have on a daily basis...the rage, the hurt, the fear and the sadness that still come up from time to time.
I don't know if it is at all reasonable for me to want or expect reassurance and communication on that level. Will he think I'm being a broken-record and fear that I'll never get over this if I honestly tell him what I'm dealing with? Will he see that I'm trying to get to a place where we can help each other heal, or will his guilt and defensiveness make him feel like I'm always pulling out his infidelity to rub in his face?
Is what I want reasonable? Possible? Will asking for these things bring us closer or drive us apart? Should I ask for what I want and then have no expectations about getting anything out of it?
Before all of the drama yesterday, I had intended to post about what H told me about issues he's dealing with in therapy.
I always knew that H had a picture of himself being a "lone wolf" and a "self-contained unit" that didn't need or want a relationship. He's the kind of person who is very sensitive, but builds 10" inch thick concrete steel-reinforced walls around his vulnerable feelings and inner self.
Most of his life, he'd had a long series of friendships with women that involved sex. He seemed to move in and out of these friendships easily with no serious emotional connections. Most of those women told him that he was a great guy, a good friend, but seemed so adverse to commitment that they just moved on after a while.
When he and I got together, he was almost 40 and for the first time he really fell in love and really wanted to be in a relationship. I could see that even though he still had problems with intimacy, he let me in more than he ever had with anyone. I really felt honored that he did that and thought that he would in-time see that I was a safe person to do that with and that he would find acceptance and love the more he let me in.
I did get better that way for a long time, then it started going backwards. He started pulling back in to the point where he nearly shut me out entirely then began an EA.
He says he told his therapist that he wants to come home and also knows that I've been very patient but felt that he shouldn't test my patience much longer.
The therapist told him that she was worried about him coming home. He has described to her and to me that he likes being with people and loves being in a family, but has a low tolerance level for being with people for too long. When he reaches that tolerance level, he goes into his cave mentally and emotionally for a long time and starts craving solitude and fantasizing about running away from everything and everyone. He has, at various points in his life, gotten to that stage and did a big cut and run. He left everything behind and would literally run to the other side of the world and not look back. He has had a pattern of sabotaging himself and then running away from the mess.
The therapist said that, after looking at his MMPI test and getting to know him, that she was very surprised that he had chosen people-oriented professions and had chosen to be in a committed relationship and in a family.
He's not quite full-blown antisocial and a recluse, but close enough to cause problems. I also have a strong streak of that, so for a long time, we allowed each other lots of alone time and didn't feel threatened about that.
H also had it pointed out to him that he rarely uses "we" statements, and uses lots of "I" statements. I know exactly what the therapist is talking about there....I always noticed that when he'd talk about anything beyond the near future, it was almost like he didn't see me in the picture!
The therapist said they need to get to the root of his problem with sabotaging/isolating/cut and run escape behaviour and they had barely scratched that surface. They think his A was very much a part of that pattern. The therapist is worried that he will come home and then in a year or so start back into that behaviour and wanting to isolate and escape to a place he can have extreme solitude and absolute control.
All of this rings very true to me. I'd be a lot more worried if I didn't know that H intended to be in therapy long-term to work on these issues.
I do have to realistically question my goals here. I love him very much and he's my best friend. I want our R enough to go through all of this crap of trying to rebuild our R. Could it be though, that no matter what we do and no matter how much we love each other....his basic personality and makeup is incompatible with having a long-term R? I seriously wonder if this is one of those situations where I should just say "I'll always love you, but this won't work because we can't change who we truly are".
I'd really love to hear some feedback from you all about these questions. I'd especially like to hear some objective feedback Shiny and Yashie and a few of the other folks around here with expertise in psychology.
Quoting talitsa: Will he think I'm being a broken-record and fear that I'll never get over this if I honestly tell him what I'm dealing with? Will he see that I'm trying to get to a place where we can help each other heal, or will his guilt and defensiveness make him feel like I'm always pulling out his infidelity to rub in his face?
Is what I want reasonable? Possible? Will asking for these things bring us closer or drive us apart? Should I ask for what I want and then have no expectations about getting anything out of it?
Ok--well lots of questions there Tal-I think you do need to bring those questions up--and in a safe environment-C sessions, you want to have all your cards out on the table, but at the same time reassure him that you are committed to making this work. I think your H will certainly understand that the healing is going to take time and that there are probably certain things that you won't get over too quickly and then something like this past event can happen and throw you into a tailspin! IT IS NORMAL EMOTIONAL RESPONSES. I think what you want is reasonable and thus far your H seems like a pretty reasonable man--as long as you reassure him when approaching these needs, he'll know that you're not trying to push him away or rub the A in his face. You are both on the same path now--working together for the final goal--that requires open communication--remember communication problems are probably part of the original problem--so you can't backslide and close communications when it is this important!! I think asking for what you want with no expectations would be a grand idea!! You really are handling this very well and I can feel your emotions in your writing...take some deep breathes and look back on all the progress you have made--this "incident" as your gutt tells you was a false alarm--I know about intuition as the very first night H and OW went out I have a funny feeling--it was 3 weeks later that I had confirmation of things...if your gutt tells you he's being truthful and your intuition tells you to believe him--that is the best you can do--and maybe this was all a test to see how you would handle this type of sitch--and now you know--so more work w/ MC on how to deal with this! You are doing an amazing job though--keep up the good work, I see you guys going down the road to recovery hand in hand--!! Cheers!
