5 weeks remain til next chapter starts

[istherehope]

Hi JCJ,

Thanks...

OK, the postives from the call and what I did to bring them about:

1) Before the session started he said he might come visit me in Poland in a few weeks, completely unprompted by me. What brought this about from my perspective was that I adhered to my agreement to let H take the lead on seeing me.
2) H said that I have changed completely, and am much more pleasant to be around, more open, more positive. What brought this about was me choosing to make changes to certain parts of myself.
3)H said that he wanted these calls every 2 weeks not every 3, that they are important. Maybe he said this because I'd offered to push them out?
4)H said that he has had enough down time, and doesn't really need it now (this good because it shows coming out of depression). This was not me directly except for me leaving Dublin.
5) H asked me to text him when I got home as it was 11 PM when I left the office.
6)H asked was there not anything more I wanted to talk about as he'd done most of the talking. I brought this about by only listening and validating when possible.

You are definitely right that my marriage is worth this. I just need to play it very cool so that H does not feel pressured and compelled to make a decision.

The things that I've done that have worked I'd say would be validating, complimenting, really listening, not rising to the bait on arguments, and letting him initiate contact.

I am trying not to feel hopeless. One thing toward this was to use my solutions journal. I did have a few baby-step goals met on last night's call, actually 4, that H would ask about Poland, that he would say I had not been pressuring, that he would say communicatons had been pleasant, and that he would notice my changes. The other thing I can do to stay positive is to work on a plan with Jody. I'm very thankful that we're talking tonight.

Thanks for posting. I was feeling pretty lost...

ITH

[JCJ]

And you know the biggest thing I get from the above is that he shows massive concern for you and you are doing everything right to not change this into guilt. I think you have highlighted the exact things that you can help him with, the rest is for him to work through. What you are doing at the moment is WORKING and that is great.

Try and focus on those positives and I really think you should feel a little bit encouraged at the moment (honestly). You also have a goal of getting through today till you get to your call with Jody. In my view, do not contact your h today for your own sake and work on building up your strength to get through this day. And make sure you eat something to feed your brain and keep your strength up.

Sending warm, fuzzy vibes over to Poland (as I sit in my office freezing! )

[istherehope]

Thanks JCJ,

You really see encouraging things? Sorry to keep on, but I really do need some encouragement. I think it would help my PMA IMMENSELY. How do you see his concern for me?

I promise not to contact H today unless some weird emergency comes up. He's been online for 2 hours already, and I've resisted the urge. I haven't proactively contacted him since his birthday, and I think that was warranted :).

By the way it's freezing in Poland now too!

ITH

[JCJ]

From your list of positives and again, this is my view. Jody will probably give you much better insight!!

1) He is still willing to 'give' to you with out prompting. He knows that visiting you in Poland will make *you* feel better. He still considers you.

2) He recognises your efforts and appreciates them by responding well - in a way he is telling you what works.

3) Again, he still wants to give to the relationship by carrying on with the calls. This is something you really pushed for in the beginning and informed him you wanted - he still wants to give you this so accept it gracefully. Even if you have changed your mind now about wanting them you have to go with his flow on this one as maybe he gets things out of it. Accept his gesture. You just have to recognise that these sessions are going to be difficult for you personally and you will have to find ways of dealing with that yourself.

4) You said yourself about his depression. Now he needs time to digest things, he's been through a lot.

5) Again, shows concern.

6) He is recognising that you have needs and is also trying to be there for you. In fact, you have to recognise that possibly he is not going to meet your needs at the moment but accept the gesture with grace.

Baby steps again ITH...

[istherehope]

Hmm...

I did one sort of bad thing. I forwarded an email to H. It was light and nothing big, thought it was probably no big deal.

Within 5 minutes though he did IM me, nothing in relation to the email but only asked how I was. He said he was busy with school and all, and I tried to tease him a little, just said "so?". This is something we used to do. He didn't respond to the teasing though, just said he had to get back to work so I told him to have a good day, and he said you too. I write about this only because his actions make no sense. The words themselves were completely uninteresting. I am just surprised that he decided to reach out to me at all given that yesterday he said it was better that we talked less and that we only talked about business. He makes NO sense. Maybe he feels guilty. I would if I were him...

OK rant over. I will post after my session with Jody tonight.


ITH

[Separated]

(((ITH))) ***GOOD VIBES***

Ok do NOT get upset about H making it sound like you were cynical before. For some reason WAS are able to change history in their head. Sometimes they will say that there was never a happy time, etc. You have to take it with a grain of salt. I am glad that you now see the positives in the conversation and realize that yr marriage is something worth fighting for. Good luck on yr session with Jody tonight!!

P.S. Him wanting to make sure that you got home ok last night was a very big indication that he still cares about you!!

[BigHands]

ITH,

I'm sure you've heard this before, and you'll definitely hear it again:

Believe none of what they say and only half of what they do.

Chant it with me, now.

I see a lot of positives. Whether he wants to admit it or not, he's thinking about things. He's noticing changes. He's still got a lot of work on himself to do, but he's possibly starting down that road. It takes a helluva lot longer than any of us think it should, I suspect. So, be as patient as you can and look at all those positives.

[istherehope]

Thanks BH and Sep,

BH
You are always very positive and somehow analytical which I really appreciate :). I think that I felt since he said these things on a counseling call, then they must be true. OK I am not going to believe him for the time being, or will believe he felt these things for a moment in time, and maybe isn't feeling them now, or won't be later etc. You are right that he noticed the changes. Now the issue is on him feeling like he can deal with a R. As long as we have the chance to be in the same house though, I can wait this one out for a loong time.

Sep
Thanks for the words of encouragement. I will try not to worry too much about the re-written history. After all only recently he has sent emails saying that he did a lot of things wrong too. It was only on last night's call that it was all me...

I'll post later after the session with Jody. I hope she still thinks I should just move back in...

ITH

[pisces9]

Hi ITH-

i see this :
" H said that I have changed completely, and am much more pleasant to be around, more open, more positive. What brought this about was me choosing to make changes to certain parts of myself."

and i want to know what you have done to make changes? what cnages are these? and i want you to focus only on that becuase that is what is working and drawing H back to you. nothing else.

that has to stick and be real changes. i see this working out for you- but if you slip- he will slip.

you are in charge here.

keep it going- you are relly on your way to making this M work!!

i think its great he wants to visit with you

PMA PMA PMA!!!

[istherehope]

Hi Pisces and all,

I just had my individual session with Jody. She said that H is really spewing venom right now, and can't see anything but himself and his own problems. Now she isn't as sure about me moving back into the house in the same way as she was sure before, and thinks we shouldn't do the joint sessions anymore unless H specifically mentions them again. She said that she feels they meet a need for him, a need for me to listen to him vent, about me. She said I did a great job on the call. Yes I think I did too.

She said yes he has seen all of the changes, and they don't match his impression of who I am supposed to be. In fact he didn't even bring up seeing me recently. Jody had to drag it out of him because she knew about it from me. She thinks he is REALLY angry, that this is one stage of depression, and that this is all he can feel or see right now, and that everything will be my fault as I have become his scapegoat. She says that IF I just move back into the house now, I will have to execute flawlessly, and confidently, will have to be very clear that it is about finances, because we need to focus on paying for his grad school and thus can't afford 2 separate living arrangements. She said it may still be the best way to go, but that I will have to be super-cool about it, and REALLY pull it off flawlessly. She knows of someone else who did this, but the H had an OW too, so this was even more tricky.

We both agreed that IF he comes to Poland, this will be the best possible outcome as he will get to spend time with me outside of the contested house, and will get to see that this kind of time together is OK. I am not holding my breath though as he does not live in reality. Honestly I'm getting pretty mad and not believing a word my H says (probably a good thing) other than the fact that he has no energy for anything but himself. She also said that the next time he brings up this not wanting to be married, I should say something like "I've heard all you said and this gives me a lot to think about". She thinks that he needs to feel that I am a part of this equation too. Right now he is sitting in our house, with our pets and our things, and living in this land where I will never come back. I can't believe I am actually married to someone whose current fantasy is that I never reappear. I even had to laugh a few times when Jody and I talked about it as it is all just so ridiculous. His tuition is late because I chose for us to go on a safari (thought it was our dream vacation and we also paid for his mom's vacation 1 month before). The relationship is badly damaged because I was controlling. I was cynical. I didn't listen when I should have etc. etc., but still I'm "not a bad person." I picked everything that we did together, but by his own admission he didn't have ideas about things to do himself. I am pretty mad right now, and just honestly not sure what my next steps are going to be. I am not going to contact H, that is for sure. I have another 30 days, which I may extend with some vacation in the US. I need to time it to get back on a Monday or something where there is the LEAST chance of him having time to flip out on me. If someone had told me last year that this would be my H now, I would have laughed. I really don't even know this man right now. The one positive is that H is very unlikely to get an OW because he has no tolerance for closeness with anyone. Jody said if he DID do something like this it would likely be meaningless and out of revenge, as this seems to be what he's feeling right now.

Sorry for not being more positive, but even Jody thought he was incredibly negative toward me and the relationship, and this is very hard to deal with. So for me now, it is more of the same, no contact.

Pisces, in terms of my own changes, really they just hit me like a ton of bricks. It only took a few sessions with Jody for me to realize everything that I'd been doing wrong in the marriage, and by extension the things that I needed to change about myself, and I just stopped. Things like compassion and realizing I currently have unconditional love for my H took awhile as I needed to realize what his depression was like, and how this was impacting on him. I have yet to slip up recently, it's been 20 days now with not even a minor backslide. The changes are real, but to be honest I am less sure now about how much effort I want to put into this M. I know that sounds really bad, but I am putting loads of effort into being with someone who would probably say that he hates me right now. Of course I do want to save the marriage, I really do. I just need to see what happens when I get back to Dublin. The next few months I think will tell me a lot.

Ugh. It's actually sort of good to feel mad to be honest, as at least I won't go home crying tonight. I can last until next month. I can do it. Next month good things happen for sure.

Pisces thanks for always being so positive, really. It's only today I feel like I am not married anymore for the first time ever, like that man I knew no longer exists. Things might change tomorrow. This is the rollercoaster ride after all...

ITH