And rereading, I concur! He was very warm and expressive in his and its right to sort of match that isnt it. Really exciting stuff! What a birthday treat...
Al x
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
Just lost a mammoth post... now I will try to recreate!
OK, B called! I told him a couple things that were going on with me--the memorial concert I played on Sunday, and about my new tutoring student who is the former chief of police. He got a call he needed to take, so I very openly let him get off the phone.
He called back maybe 20 minutes later and told me he had been offered an opportunity to work with one of the greatest sopranos alive and one of my favorite composers but wasn't sure if he should take it. He said, "I'd just like to talk through this because I really don't know what I should do," and I said, Go ahead!! He went through a bunch of the pros and cons. He is a violinist first and has done viola in the past. The gig is really a viola gig and he was excited at the prospect of busting his butt to try to pull it off and taking such a big risk. After a while I asked him if he wanted to hear my thoughts, which were:
-if you're getting calls to do stuff like this now, you will continue to get calls like this later, as long as you don't do anything that makes people not want to work with you [unspoken: like agreeing to do something you're not sure you can do well]
and he said, yes! you're right, it's a risk not just with this gig, but also with my future.
I also pointed out that if he thought about the greater good, maybe the project leaders would rather work with someone who had different strengths. And asked if he could choose from multiple ways to introduce himself to these great artists as a potential collaborator, would he choose this one?
Then he talked at length about how he would say no.. would he just say, "No, I'm too busy," or something more honest like "No, I don't feel qualified." He decided to just say "no I'm too busy". He actually said something like, "Maybe I don't need to tell the person who called me everything... it's not like they know me and understand me like you do." Or something like that. Nice.
At several points in the conversation he asked, "do you have any more thoughts?" I was really careful to try to listen listen listen and not interrupt. My feedback was a lot more open ended than before, I think in the past I would have just said, "I don't think you should do it because I'm scared you won't be able to pull it off and it will hurt your career" instead of approaching it more philosophically and trusting-ly as I did today.
Then he asked, "Do you remember how X [this musician he is now working with] was such a jerk when we met him a while ago?" [THIs MIGHT BE THE FIRST "WE" SIGHTING] And then he told me that when we met X, B now has learned, that X had just been kicked out of his ensemble, and decided to leave a destructive relationship, [VERY INTERESTING CHOICE OF TOPIC, B] went into therapy, lost some weight, and started trying to be kinder to everyone around him. B started detailing some of X's personality quirks. I mostly just listened and made monosyllabic encouraging listening noises.
I told him I had a tutoring student coming over in a few minutes and asked him if I should call back when I was finished (since the conversation was mostly him talking, I wanted to be clear I was open to more of that). He said tomorrow would be better and that he "really wanted to hear about my search for a new cello." I told him I would love to get his opinion because I was sort of confused, and then we talked about times that he would be available tomorrow. Without going into detail about my schedule (I'm busy when he's free, except for late) I told him laughingly that I would try my best. He thanked me for being a sounding board and I said, "anytime, anytime." We very comfortably got off the phone.
The second call was at least 40 minutes, the first one 10-20 minutes.
it felt like the man I remember.
I wasn't looking for this, but I think having B turn to me for help sorting through a dilemma is DEFINITELY a baby step, as is him initiating any kind of lengthy phone conversation.
He also sent me a link to the concert he played last week. (While we were on the phone: B: "Did I send you a link? No? I'll send you a link.")
So... what's next, lovely friends??
oh. one more thing. I talked to my mom tonight, and apparently she discussed my last lunch interaction with B with her BFF. I feel loved. I didn't know she gossiped about me with her girlfriends!!
Sorry this is sooooooOOOO long, thank you to anyone who actually read though all of this!!!
Well done T! I like it alot! Congratulations - that conversation is your hard work paying off. I am so pleased that you listened and let him talk. A big gold star for you!
Questions: 1. Why arent you thrilled that he has been offered this opportunity with the soprano? Would this be a good time to compliment him and sing his praises? I'm wondering if he's looking to you to tell him that he can do anything and he needed your encouragement? Obviously you know best and can read him and you understand the big picture, but my first thought was that it was weird that you werent jumping up and down and affirming him????
2. Obviously what you are doing is working. The latest plan was to step it up a bit more and make it more obvious that you are still interested in connecting romantically. After this conversation do you think its best to keep building the friendship? OR are you going to do over the phone flirting, and maybe throw the 'you rocked my world sexually' thing out there?!?!
3. Can you think of another reason why you need him to call you after this next conversation you are going to have? Another question or dilema that he would need to check back on in a weeks time? Another opportunity for him to rescue you, and you to be admiring him??
I'm wondering about the advice for him to NOT take the opportunity. Now, you know the field, and the people way better than I do. But I know that in a lot of areas turning down a chance like that is a bad thing. Pretty soon, you don't get the chances, because people don't think you are confident in yourself. I've found that most of the time, when people make an offer like that, they know enough about you, and have done the research, to believe that you can do the job. In a way, turning them down is to question their judgment. And I am SURE that they'll see right through the "I'm too busy" excuse.
Just stuff to think about!
And maybe to talk to him about? Might keep the convo going?
I am so thrilled that this happened. Everything just seemed so natural and I truly believe that is a great start for something new, whatever that may be, for you and he. He is calling back about your new cello so I think this is your chance to talk and in return do tones of listening to his response and even ask for his opinion as he did if he doesn't volunteer one. Remember respect, respect, respect.
I was just wondering about the conversation with him about his playing opportunity. Were you mirroring his concerns or do you hold those concerns for him?
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He said, "I'd just like to talk through this because I really don't know what I should do," and I said, Go ahead!!
I love that you just listened.
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At several points in the conversation he asked, "do you have any more thoughts?" I was really careful to try to listen listen listen and not interrupt.
I love that he asked you BECAUSE he knew you were listening. If you voluteered your thoughts he wouldn't have thought 'hmmm I wonder what T is thinking, maybe she would have a good perspective on this'. (anyway that is what I imagine )
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I told him I had a tutoring student coming over in a few minutes and asked him if I should call back when I was finished (since the conversation was mostly him talking, I wanted to be clear I was open to more of that). He said tomorrow would be better and that he "really wanted to hear about my search for a new cello."
Excellent GALing here, I loved that you had to go and showed boundaries. Excellent that you left him wanting more...
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I told him I would love to get his opinion because I was sort of confused, and then we talked about times that he would be available tomorrow
I love that you did this because it reflects this
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He thanked me for being a sounding board
Isn't that what couples do? H and I certainly used to use each other as a sounding board all the time.
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So... what's next, lovely friends??
Hmmm... my feeling is go with the flow on this one (argh, I had something more to say and I just got interupted and if I think of it later I will post).
If I weren't at work I would be doing a little Chandler-esque (from Friends) victory dance for you Maybe I should just do that anyway hee hee.
Thank you so much for your encouragement and your very perceptive questions!!!
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1. Why arent you thrilled that he has been offered this opportunity with the soprano? Would this be a good time to compliment him and sing his praises? I'm wondering if he's looking to you to tell him that he can do anything and he needed your encouragement? Obviously you know best and can read him and you understand the big picture, but my first thought was that it was weird that you werent jumping up and down and affirming him????
When he told me the names of the people he'd been asked to work with, I actually screamed something like, "OH MY GODDDD!!!! WHAT????!!!" in this low grumbly excited voice I don't think I'd actually ever heard come out of me before... so there was some jumping up and down. He told me before I said anything that *he* wasn't sure if he could do it.
To explain a little bit... I have never heard him play viola since we met 6 years ago, and he doesn't even own one. His violin playing is totally amazing, but I think the viola playing has been on the back burner for a long time. I totally believe he has the *potential* to be an AMAZING violist, but trying to do it with no time to prepare, in a situation where the stakes are this high, I think would be unwise. And in the three weeks between now and the gig he is already really busy and doesn't actually have time to ramp up. It's sort of like if he was a marathon runner and he was asked to be a sprinter. I'm sure up to a certain level a marathon level could still be a good sprinter, but past a certain level it would be a really big risk.
I definitely affirmed him a lot during the conversation, including saying things like, "It's awesome that you've only been in NYC for 2 years and you're already getting calls like this" and at the end I said something like, "Even that you got this call is a huge accomplishment. Congratulations!!" I'd say the overall tone was me being encouraging about his violin playing amazingness and that more opportunities like this will come along where he could really, AS WE SAY ON THE BB, "rock their world."
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2. Obviously what you are doing is working. The latest plan was to step it up a bit more and make it more obvious that you are still interested in connecting romantically. After this conversation do you think its best to keep building the friendship? OR are you going to do over the phone flirting, and maybe throw the 'you rocked my world sexually' thing out there?!?!
I've been thinking... what HAVE I been doing? And I think I've just been continuing to show friendship, but without pushing for anything. I sort of feel like I should just "follow the energy" -- what happened yesterday felt very intimate, and I'm not sure it would have happened if I pushed for anything. I guess I'd like to get some more consistent communication going before I do any explicit flirting or throw out any zingy comments. Or if he gets a little flirty I will definitely mirror that.
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3. Can you think of another reason why you need him to call you after this next conversation you are going to have? Another question or dilema that he would need to check back on in a weeks time? Another opportunity for him to rescue you, and you to be admiring him??
I was just thinking about that! I'd really like to get his advice about the next move I'd make in my 'career'... whether I'd go back to Boston, or move to NYC, or stay here even longer than I planned. But maybe not talk about it today, because I don't want to lay too many of my existential concerns on him at once. It is a little sensitive, because he might have vested interests in me either being physically closer to him or farther away , but he was always very good in the past about sharing his opinions without that getting in the way. I can definitely ask him his opinion of the different schools I'm thinking about.
One thing that intrigues me is that I first mentioned the New Cello Possibility two months ago. Suddenly, he "really wants to talk to me about it". Is that because he is just in a better, more receptive place? Has he been really busy and finally has a little window of time in his brain to think about what I"ve been saying? Or is it because I told him I was *confused*, and that's what spurred him into action?????
One more question... I am staying home from school today because I am sick. Should I still call, even though I am not feeling well??
Thank you so much for your thoughtful observations!!!!! I explained it a little in my post to essie.... he really is a great violinist and has potential to be a great violist, but to try to realize that under extreme pressure with so little preparation time *could* be bad. B said he was sure they'd understand "i'm too busy excuse" and in this case it was actually true... it was just such an amazing opportunity that he was thinking about backing out of his other job(s) in order to do it.
thank you so much for all your thoughts and positive vibes!!!
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I was just wondering about the conversation with him about his playing opportunity. Were you mirroring his concerns or do you hold those concerns for him?
I think both... he had those concerns, otherwise he would have just said yes to the opportunity. Also I had those concerns, but I was trying to just ask very open-ended questions instead of telling him my opinion.
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Quote: At several points in the conversation he asked, "do you have any more thoughts?" I was really careful to try to listen listen listen and not interrupt.
I love that he asked you BECAUSE he knew you were listening. If you voluteered your thoughts he wouldn't have thought 'hmmm I wonder what T is thinking, maybe she would have a good perspective on this'. (anyway that is what I imagine \:\) )
that is such a good point!!! thank you!!
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I love that you did this because it reflects this Quote: He thanked me for being a sounding board
Isn't that what couples do? H and I certainly used to use each other as a sounding board all the time.
You are so right on!!! I think that's why I felt so warm and fuzzy and strong at the end.
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If I weren't at work I would be doing a little Chandler-esque (from Friends) victory dance for you ;\) Maybe I should just do that anyway hee hee.
Julia, you make me laugh out loud!!!
Do you think I should call him even though I'm sick???
I think your advice should be what you really believe is best for him. I remember my xH always turned to me for advice about work because he knew I KNEW him and I could make suggestions based on facts/data no other person had about him. So, if you think he shouldnt do it, stick to that.
The fact he turned to you about it is GREAT!! Of all the people he has met, old and new friends he wanted to hear YOUR thoughts. That is definitely a baby step. Can you imagine him doing that if you hadn't made the effort to "re-connect" on the friendship basis? No way. Good job T.
If you talk about this again, try to talk to him as you would do with your very best friend, not your BF or xBF. Love K
I was really careful to try to listen listen listen and not interrupt. My feedback was a lot more open ended than before, I think in the past I would have just said, "I don't think you should do it because I'm scared you won't be able to pull it off and it will hurt your career" instead of approaching it more philosophically and trusting-ly as I did today. 
Maybe I should just do that anyway hee hee.