Okay, that said...I kinda feel sorry for the guy LL...I mean here you are.. faithful, beautiful, sexy, (which to me means INTERESTED in sex and joyful in your body), his kid's mother, a smart motivated woman...and the guy seems to have NO CLUE how to turn this around.
He MUST have a clue it NEEDS turning, but he's resorting to the same old tapdance...try to suck up...tiptoe around...escape through sleep...hope it "gets better"....
It's SO hard, LL, because I don't get the sense that your H is a bad guy, just really really THICK about what he should be doing right now!!!
Have you talked at all about today since the hangup?
Quote: Have you talked at all about today since the hangup?
nope!! the old me would have called him right back and given him the old..."who the hell do you think you are" or certainly would have made some stink or said something by now even if just "are you going to just let what happend today go?" so I say nothing...retreat like a martian and do my own thing...eventually he will either get it or he wont. Don't feel sorry for the ignorant who don't seek understanding or help...h knows that he's got to figure things out...he just thinks it's going to come to him naturally. hasn't worked thus far...why would it start working now?
True...one definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
I'm sorry, but I sure wouldn't want to be under your H's flannels tonight! ...YUP, he got his own a$$ right where it is, and he needs to get it on out...but it's still kind of a pitiful picture, as I feel he really does love you...just for SOME, UNKNOWABLE, FRUSTRATING, reason is NOT showing it to you as you need and deserve.
Tell me LL, have you tried this stance before...this NOT bringing up a big issue? If not, then it's a 180 worth trying, as I feel that your H may well start smelling the coffee when you're not there making it for him every morning(that's just figurative, of course).
Quote: Tell me LL, have you tried this stance before...this NOT bringing up a big issue? If not, then it's a 180 worth trying, as I feel that your H may well start smelling the coffee when you're not there making it for him every morning(that's just figurative, of course).
it's a fairly new 180...the twist to it now being that I will not frump or pout I will simply do my own thing...he will have to seek me out with more than just calls warning me of bad weather and driving conditions but I will be pleasant and upbeat when he does attempt to interact with me...he needs to address the issue...I'm not going to make it easy for him anymore...nor am I going to invite another "it's just never good enough" "listen to yourself" session.
I think I'll just leave him on the couch tonight. regarding the coffee...he's finally figured out how to set it up before he goes to bed so that he can just turn it on in the am (since he leaves at 6am and I don't drink coffee and prefer to not be up at that time). He may notice a difference..but then again he may notice a difference but simply decide..she's doing her own thing..I'll just leave her alone...at this point I don't really care much...this up and down back and forth..here's a crumb...things are great...ok now I can get complacant and arrogant again...oh wait no I can't let me appologize...I was wrong..oh no wait a minute you made me do it...bla bla bla bla bla bla bla...whatever. I'm looking forward to class being over (not that I don't enjoy class) so that I can get back to some of my own reading...book club has taken a lapse without my being ever present and I know some of the members are missing it so getting back to that will be fun...I also wish it would stop raining!
It's been sunshine and HOOOTTT here for weeks. It does cool down at night, though.
Okay, so now I have a better picture of your game plan. I like the being pleasant, but not buying into old patterns (sulking, initiating the talks etc). LL I would be QUITE surprised if your H does not take alarm at these changes.
If he doesn't, I'll seriously be wondering just how thick his head IS!
Looks like you're getting lots of great support and advice! Cool! Even have JJ chiming in, huh?
Quote: now let's back track and recall how ow friendship was disclosed to me...h stopped work when she called to take her to a pre scheduled doctors appointment...h called to say hello...I let him know that I have to find someone to help me with the appointment...he tells me to call our occassional sitter, or my cousin, or someone...never once bothers to say anything resembling "I'll see what I can do with my schedule" then proceeds to be a jerk about things when he can sense that I'm obviously aggrivated by it. eventually just plain hangs up on me.
So....I know you've been in a sad spot for a few weeks now but this seems like a big trigger for yesterday, no? I'm interpreting here but the concept that h was willing and eager to do something for ow that he seems unwilling and unable to do for you????
I have to say that I was surprised to see your response to Brian where you talked about finding the stuff at h's office....
My 2 cents...tell me to pound sand if you want...but seems like you haven't been able to move to a more comfortable place re. the affair...true?
I think it can be two steps forward, one step back but I don't think you'll really heal (and m will heal) until you can find some peace around this...maybe I'm overstating...I don't know.
Quote: IT'S NOT! I didn't deserve any of what h did and I'm tired of taking responsibility for it!!
You didn't deserve what h did...none of us did (no matter how "bad" we may have been in hindsight). Are you taking responsibility for it? Yikes. Stop!
In another post you mention that DB'ing wasn't going to work for you...'cause you hadn't been selfish or withdrawn or .... like other BSes.
Well...DB'ing has certainly helped me identify and "fix" some behaviors that could have contributed to the uncomfortableness of my m.....
BUT, to me, DB'ing is also about identifying behaviors and patterns that aren't working...not because they're "bad" or negative ... but because they're just not getting you what you want. I DO think that DB'ing applies beautifully in that case to your sitch...there's a handful of things ... (intimacy, general time together, etc) that you're unhappy about in your m. and I'm feeling (and have felt in the past) that putting some DB techniques in place might help resolve or at least "better" some of those things....
Lastly...I KNOW you're angry and tired and done...it REALLY seemed as though you were doing "better" when you were listing positives....I know it's a cyclic thing...the positives are easier to see when you're feeling good and when you're not feeling good who wants to look for 'em and list 'em? BUT, can you look through your irritation and hurt to find some things?
I think I read something about flowers and ice cream and "storm warnings". These don't cancel out what you feel as though you didn't get....not saying that AT ALL. But, they're worth mentioning.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quote: So....I know you've been in a sad spot for a few weeks now but this seems like a big trigger for yesterday, no? I'm interpreting here but the concept that h was willing and eager to do something for ow that he seems unwilling and unable to do for you????
a trigger? perhaps simply more icing on that worm cake. and bingo on the fact that h was willing/able and eager to do something for ow that he seems unwilling to do for me...and it doesn't stop with doc appointments (that's just the big one since that's where he was with her when he was seen by one of "my people" and finally disclosed the friendship (ok after waffling a bit between she's an aquantance..no she's a friend...bla bla bla)
Quote: I have to say that I was surprised to see your response to Brian where you talked about finding the stuff at h's office....
why were you surprised? it happend just before I left for florida and then I had to bring it up after I got home...wondering what he did with the stuff he claims he put it in the dumpster at work...jewlery and all (a tacky heart charm of hers...a ring he bought himself to replace the wedding band I took from him, a cross he had bought that christmas to replace the temporarily broken one I had given him on our wedding day)
Quote: My 2 cents...tell me to pound sand if you want...but seems like you haven't been able to move to a more comfortable place re. the affair...true?
I haven't moved to a comfortable place about the affair because I don't truly know what the heck it all was...and our r has not seen much improvement since the initial return. the way I see it..h was seeking that feeling..that rush...that "in love" he wanted it...new he could have it with her...so sought it out and continued to make the time to keep that r growing by spending lunch with her...he doesn't seem to understand that the same time must be put into this r to have that feeling here..he seems content to just say..that's not the way real life is...we're married with kids and this is just the way it is.
Quote: I think it can be two steps forward, one step back but I don't think you'll really heal (and m will heal) until you can find some peace around this...maybe I'm overstating...I don't know.
it is not a question of whether or not I understand how things happen...I'm no dummy...it could have been me..but I understand these things and that is why it wasn't me...he is the one who needs to understand it and I'm not always certain that he does...if he doesn't understand then sure he's here but life will simply be a sacrifice of his happiness to be here.
Quote: You didn't deserve what h did...none of us did (no matter how "bad" we may have been in hindsight). Are you taking responsibility for it? Yikes. Stop
well I don't feel responsible for his ridiculous decisions but for some reason he at times thinks I am. you did x so I did y kinda thing.
Quote: BUT, to me, DB'ing is also about identifying behaviors and patterns that aren't working...not because they're "bad" or negative ... but because they're just not getting you what you want. I DO think that DB'ing applies beautifully in that case to your sitch...there's a handful of things ... (intimacy, general time together, etc) that you're unhappy about in your m. and I'm feeling (and have felt in the past) that putting some DB techniques in place might help resolve or at least "better" some of those things....
well then let's here some db tecniques that will help with intimacy and time together??? cause nothing I'm comming up with seems to work..h just seems complacant and content to just be here whether we spend qt together or not.
Quote: Lastly...I KNOW you're angry and tired and done...it REALLY seemed as though you were doing "better" when you were listing positives....I know it's a cyclic thing...the positives are easier to see when you're feeling good and when you're not feeling good who wants to look for 'em and list 'em? BUT, can you look through your irritation and hurt to find some things?
thing is some of the positives I started noting made me realize that some things were better durning his a so why should I look at them as positives now. ie. phone calls...I list it as a possitive when h calls before noon. funny thing is before the a and even in the first weeks of seperation h would call everymorning at 10am or earlier.
a kiss hello or goodbye? why list it as a positive...during h's a he would kiss my forehead as I slept when he was on his way out to work.
Quote: I think I read something about flowers and ice cream and "storm warnings".
the flowers were from son and h pointed that fact out several times...yes yes I know h bought them and it may even have been his idea (though you never know my son is pretty cute and might have suggested it when ariving at the store seeing them wanting to make mommy feel better) the icecream? well he took son for icecream so I don't know..but then again while he was having his a (I was preg for most of it) he'd get me icecream everyother night. the storm warnings?? well sheesh if something happens to me who's gonna take care of his kids???
no ily's no sorry for being a jerk and hanging up...regardless of the argument that was uncalled for.
Quoting lostlove: a trigger? perhaps simply more icing on that worm cake. and bingo on the fact that h was willing/able and eager to do something for ow that he seems unwilling to do for me...and it doesn't stop with doc appointments (that's just the big one since that's where he was with her when he was seen by one of "my people" and finally disclosed the friendship (ok after waffling a bit between she's an aquantance..no she's a friend...bla bla bla)
OK. So...I can relate to this...more along the lines of not understanding some things about their r that h doesn't seem interested in doing with me...frequent emails, IM'ing, stuff like that. I TRY not to get stuck there...tho' it doesn't always work. (worm cake? yikes )
Quote:
I have to say that I was surprised to see your response to Brian where you talked about finding the stuff at h's office....
why were you surprised? it happend just before I left for florida and then I had to bring it up after I got home...wondering what he did with the stuff he claims he put it in the dumpster at work...jewlery and all (a tacky heart charm of hers...a ring he bought himself to replace the wedding band I took from him, a cross he had bought that christmas to replace the temporarily broken one I had given him on our wedding day)
My "surprise" wasn't an attempt to minimize your pain over finding those things...I guess it would have been more clear for me to say that I didn't realize that that event was still in the forefront for you...I guess I had ASSumed that you had "processed" it with h...or on your own. It sounds to me like it's still very fresh...
Quote: well then let's here some db tecniques that will help with intimacy and time together??? cause nothing I'm comming up with seems to work..h just seems complacant and content to just be here whether we spend qt together or not.
So..you know this...DB'ing says take what's not working and turn it around...it's hard for me to offer up true ideas since I don't have a great idea of what you ARE trying...
Maybe you've tried all of these...
-- schedule a date and let him know the day before -- try changing YOUR perception of when "date" time is -- maybe have breakfast together, get up when he does so you can at least have coffee, whatever -- change the perception of what quality time is...it sounds like h spends a lot of time watching tv at night...what if you brought in a bottle of wine, what if you surprised him with some chocolates, got a movie that you'd both be interested in, just sat there and read, etc. -- What if working out in the yard together WAS considered qt for you guys? or whatever...
Sorry for forgetting this, LL...tell me again how you knew that h was having an a?
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quote: OK. So...I can relate to this...more along the lines of not understanding some things about their r that h doesn't seem interested in doing with me...frequent emails, IM'ing, stuff like that. I TRY not to get stuck there...tho' it doesn't always work. (worm cake? yikes )
let's see...he admitted to going to her house 3x a week I assume for lunch...I also know that they went out to lunch together several times (the number given is 5) sometimes he would call her sometimes it would be her idea...h doesn't ask me to come down for lunch...nor does he make any attempt to take me out to dinner or out anywhere. I don't know what their r was all like other than the time spent and I know I'm not getting that. and yes worm cake or mud pie...
Quote: My "surprise" wasn't an attempt to minimize your pain over finding those things...I guess it would have been more clear for me to say that I didn't realize that that event was still in the forefront for you...I guess I had ASSumed that you had "processed" it with h...or on your own. It sounds to me like it's still very fresh...
simply because it's another one of those things that didn't really get resolved...I brought the stuff home as h requested...he said "bring it home and we'll burn it together" I awoke the next morning to find it all taken from my car...and then I had to ask after returning from vacation what happend to the stuff...and I'm expected to believe he threw it away?? there's three barrells right in the garage next to my car...why take it to throw in a dumpster by yourself????
Quote: So..you know this...DB'ing says take what's not working and turn it around...it's hard for me to offer up true ideas since I don't have a great idea of what you ARE trying...
I'm trying to just keep my mouth shut because when I express any dissatifaction or desire for something I'm not getting I get negative "no matter what I do it's just not enough" type of stuff.
Quote: -- schedule a date and let him know the day before that would require finding a sitter and since he has such a fluctuating schedule he cannot always obliged...I'd rather do nothing than make the plans and be told "oh gee I can't"color] -- try changing YOUR perception of when "date" time is -- maybe have breakfast together, get up when he does so you can at least have coffee, whatever hon, h leaves the house at 6am -- change the perception of what quality time is...it sounds like h spends a lot of time watching tv at night...what if you brought in a bottle of wine, what if you surprised him with some chocolates, got a movie that you'd both be interested in, just sat there and read, etc. I've changed my perception about the tv thing..before seperation I hated the fact that all we did was sit on opposing couches watching tv (actually more me watching and him sleeping) now I don't mind it so much but it's more of the same -- What if working out in the yard together WAS considered qt for you guys? I do consider it qt together but alot of the stuff he does I cannot help with, or I am making dinner or lunch or cleaning the house or chasing kiddos around (it's not as easy to do all this stuff when you have kiddos) or whatever...
Quote: Sorry for forgetting this, LL...tell me again how you knew that h was having an a?
I didn't "know" but I do remember saying to one of my girlfriends "if he's having an a it will be his loss he'll have to live with the guilt", he was as he is...distant...etc. I also recall saying to new sil "if he doesn't open up to me soon then he will find someone else to" how did I "know" it was an a? well gee...ow is a customer..she has cancer...she needed a ride to her treatment..she called my h...my h took her...my friends sister (who is friends with my parents) is in remission so must be tested each year, she was at the hospital in the elevator...h immediatley calls home and says to me..."I'm going to be later than planned" ok says I what's up? "I had to drive someone to the hospital" is everything ok I ask? "ya, it's not an emergency someone just needed a ride to an appointment" "who" "ow" "ok"
h gets home and for the first time ever comes out and does some errands with me...
that weekend he came food shopping with me and the kids and we all went out for pizza.
h goes from reffering to this woman as an aquantance (sorry I don't think I'd just call an aquantance to take me to my cancer treatment...that'd have to be someone I'm pretty comfortable with) to a friend...admits to having gone to lunch with her a couple of times....(now keep in mind I had been by his shop a few times that summer on my way home from pre natal appointments so he could see son, and he was always too busy to spend more than 5 min with us, and never once thought to say "hey hon, I've got an hour to kill and haven't seen son in a few days why don't you come down for lunch we'll grab some subs and go to the park"
ok not to mention the fact that within a day or so of h's call...ow called to let me know they were just friends (oh please)
h moved out for a week..that's when he started with the I don't feel for you like a h should feel for a w...bla bla bla...that was when d was first talked about...that was when he stayed at his parents for a week...
how did I "know" I didn't....he was home every night...he kissed me goodbye every morning...he called home everyday from work...
I should add to all this how things are going today....
h has called several times... h volunteered to return a damaged pool vacuum and pick up some more supplies. h volunteered to pick up some new computer software. h admitted to doing these things because he 1. wanted to get it done 2. because I've got enough to do and it isn't easy going from store to store with the kids. in running these errands h has called at least 5 times. when I offered to get the software his response was...no this way when I get home we can all stay home. h even offered to finish vacuuming the pool when he gets home.
...YUP, he got his own a$$ right where it is, and he needs to get it on out...but it's still kind of a pitiful picture, as I feel he really does love you...just for SOME, UNKNOWABLE, FRUSTRATING, reason is NOT showing it to you as you need and deserve. 
)