Quote: WHAT is this about? Did I miss something? You worked and worked and your H came home and you actually let this into your brain? I know I am kind of new to your thread, but explanation please...
I try not to let this into my brain. because he did leave me for her...they had a "connection" that he supposedly never had with me and I'm not so sure he's wrong about that it has been a long long time since we were friends if we ever were, because I'm insecure and sometimes think that perhaps it was not me but his children he came home for, becuase when the alien first awakes they still say things that make you say wtf...ie. "I have to put my needs aside for my family" h doesn't remember saying that. because h didn't simply have an ea, h actually believed (and still isn't sure what he felt) he was in love with her. because it friggen stinks that's all, becuase if he were meant to be with me he wouldn't have gone to her.
I don't know. guess I just didn't take fully to heart the statement, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. and some statements made still hurt.
funny thing is that when ow first called me (she was calling to let me know they were just friends) she let me know how much my h loves me and what a great mother he says I am and yada yada yada. this 4th of july h told one of my friends that he adores me, last ocotber when h first started to come around he told another friend that I'm awesome...but these words of affirmation don't come my way? why don't they come my way? why after all this should I just know?
______________________________________________________ funny thing is that when ow first called me (she was calling to let me know they were just friends) she let me know how much my h loves me and what a great mother he says I am and yada yada yada. this 4th of july h told one of my friends that he adores me, last ocotber when h first started to come around he told another friend that I'm awesome...but these words of affirmation don't come my way? why don't they come my way? why after all this should I just know? ___________________________________________________________
LL, this sounds like a very familiar problem. Our MC recently has really emphasized the need to learn to say these kind of things directly to each other. Just like your H, we tend to say all of these things to other people, but not so much to each other.
We have been trying to do better, but both find it hard to verbalize affection and compliments. Words feel inadequate and clumsy. It makes us feel ackward and vulnerable.
The best that we have been able to figure out as to the WHY of this behavior is that neither of us grew up with verbal affection or affirmations. Mostly, in our families, critical comments were abundant and often emotional abuse.
I don't know if this relates at all to your H, but it is at least one explination for why he may behave that way.
Quoting lostlove: honestly I don't know what the heck it is...things seem fine and then they don't...
Definitely a cyclic thing...I can relate!
Quote: still can't figure it out...is it me? is it h? is it just us? wtf is it? is it nothing at all? I know that I feel something is not right could be this, could be that....does h even feel anything? notice anything? would be no point in my asking as it's not likely that I'd get any kind of answer...
so...can you say what you notice? I know you know from my threads that when I hit a rough patch, I start to feel anxious and it seems like h. retreats a bit...not sure which comes first, frankly, but I KNOW for sure that they feed off of each other.
I was reading something this morning that suggested that when you get stuck, you should ask yourself two questions:
What am I afraid of? What is making me sad?
Any thoughts???
Quote: I'm almost feeling like I want to get out again....not be around...take off and go to the movies or something...somethings not right and I don't know what it is and wonder if I even care anymore.
LL
So why not do that (movies, dinner with friend, whatever). This is SB, right??? If doing that breaks you out of the semi-funk, well, that's aok, right?
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
A couple of observations, then I'll let up. You very quickly evaded the comment about talking to a C and turned back to H and what he needs to do. What I'm talking about is what LL needs to do, whether H does anything or not. You feel that H is not meeting the expectations you have for him. LL - Who in this world can you ultimately control and set expectations for? (and the kids don't count - that's a whole other realm) If you have goals for this R, and I'm sure you do; does H know about them? Does he agree to them? Has it all been laid out that this is the direction you need to go? You keep expecting H to ask you to put the rings back on, he may be just waiting for you to put them back on - unspoken issues will never be resolved until they are talked about. They becme subject to ASSUMPTION. And I'm sure you know what happens when one or both of you ASS-U-ME.
Every time you think about OW, you're taking another step deeper into that cheeseless tunnel. Do you forgive and move forward or not? Only you can decide that. Do you love - unconditionally - or not? That is your choice and no one else's. If you have decided to forgive, then DO IT. It doesn't mean you forget it forever, but it is something you choose to not obsess on anymore.
You may be holding expectations for H that he cannot meet, or is unaware of the depth of your feelings about them. Try a little reflection, look at LL from H's POV. What is the message you are sending? Clingy, needy, insecure?? Try to understand that H may not have the skills he needs to give you what you need and he is just doing the best that he can with what he has to work with.
I know it's hard to trust. I don't know that I will ever trust W again (ever is a long time btw). But you have something here that I don't think I have - another chance to trust again. But it's up to you to decide to trust. H can't make you trust him, no matter how many cell phones he chucks out the window. It's something that you have to give of yourself on your own. A C may help you get there, if you want to.
Have you read after the affair? And The Road Less Traveled also has a huge chapter on Love. You might want to read it. Yes, he left you (momentarily) for OW because it was exciting, convenient, etc. But that is not LOVE. I know he said he loved her. He meant he was lusting after her. She was pushing every wonderful button he had. Love is looking out for the other person, wanting them to grow, caring for them. Lusting is a very selfish thing. IF she loved your H, she would not have let him put this dark hole in his life. You are the one that truly loves him, by being there with him, caring for him, taking care of the kids, etc. NO, not nearly as fun, certainly.
Read what love really is in the Bible in 1 Corinthians. Remember it doesn't keep a list of wrongs... But DO NOT go to the place where you even THINK that OW is deserving of your H. Never again. You certainly deserve more than that. Go back and read your posts, especially the one where you went to Newcomers to give everyone hope. It gave me hope. Keep hoping, keep the faith, and EXPECT good things to happen. (And hey, just because my R is so in the toilet it's already at the septic tank, doesn't mean you don't have to listen to me!!)
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quote: The best that we have been able to figure out as to the WHY of this behavior is that neither of us grew up with verbal affection or affirmations. Mostly, in our families, critical comments were abundant and often emotional abuse.
I don't know if this relates at all to your H, but it is at least one explination for why he may behave that way.
could be so but h has yet to look into his upbringing as having any negative effects on him whatsoever...I've known the family for 14 years..h was 19 with two younger siblings at the time...they were close to the picture perfect family in that the house was clean and there were two parents etc etc...but perfect? having no negative effects on him? I doubt it...I see the control, I see the lack of general intimacy between them all...I see lots and lots but it is not mine to see...I know where my crap comes from and that is why I've always tried to not point out neg things (the old "you don't look good" "wow you're getting grey" heck I'm even hesitent to point out a blemish) ...but have now realized that I also have to point out more of the good too.
Quote: We have been trying to do better, but both find it hard to verbalize affection and compliments. Words feel inadequate and clumsy. It makes us feel ackward and vulnerable.
I've discovered that when I directly compliment h, he shies away from it, feels aqward being complimented but when I say clearly infront of him to the kids something like "daddy is such a hard worker look how lucky we are with this nice yard he made for us" it is recieved better. I've noticed that h has been doing the same thing too using the kids as a buffer to compliment me ie "isn't dinner yummy, but mommy always makes yummy dinner, mommies a great cook isn't she" I try to tell h when he looks nice (mind you he wears the same work aparel most everyday so it is geniune when I say it not "gee you look spiffy" but you're cute or you smell nice) I typically get a response of "are you nuts" guess I am. I would like to hear more of these comments from h directed toward me...they are occassional so I should just focus on that.
Quote: so...can you say what you notice? I know you know from my threads that when I hit a rough patch, I start to feel anxious and it seems like h. retreats a bit...not sure which comes first, frankly, but I KNOW for sure that they feed off of each other
I'm not totaly sure if I actually even notice anything in h or if it is simply me. at this point I'm more inclined to think it's me then h notices something and gives me space wich I notice and interperet as him being withdrawn or distant and that serves only to fester my bad vibe.
time to put an end to it.
solution.
when I'm feeling down go for the damn hug when h get's home and feel better! what's so complicated about that? the fear that maybe this hug wont be recieved well...heck that hasn't happend yet so why let that fear keep me down! go for it baby go for it! break the cycle!
Quote: So why not do that (movies, dinner with friend, whatever). This is SB, right??? If doing that breaks you out of the semi-funk, well, that's aok, right?
sometimes it's good and sometimes it's not, depends on what is actually going on. h gives me the freedom to go to a movie and chill out if I need to without letting it effect him in any way (sometimes I wish it would but I know that's just me being insecure) understanding that I need the space, there are times when doing so helps me reflect and come back with a new understanding of MY role in whatever icky feelings I was having or it can serve to intensify the negative way I feel.
so there is some decision making needed when flying the coop (simply taking in a movie alone, or running errands) what am I running from? am I running? will getting out benifit me or hurt me?
I am going out tonight with some friends though, not running just chilling out a bit.
Quote: A couple of observations, then I'll let up.
greg, you don't have to let up, I need a good beating once in a while.
Quote: You very quickly evaded the comment about talking to a C and turned back to H and what he needs to do.
didn't mean to evade. I understand the usefullness of a c to help one sort out there misc issues, the understanding the whats and why's of the way we are. I know the whats and why's of the way I am...I know I am x becuase of a, p becuase of o. I have been aware of these things for a long time, a c would only tell me what I tell myself, heck my c told me I should become a c so what does that tell ya (I did minor in counseling in college and my main study was human services).
here's a little bit of back info.
during seperation I realized that I let my insecurities be h's responsiblity, or rather expected him to make me feel less insecure...I informed h of this fact.
I know what I need to do, I need to tell myself to shut the hell up and look at myself there is no need to be insecure about anything "you're good enough, you're smart enough, and gosh darn it people like you!" I do ok most of the time, better than ok other times, when it becomes something I "need" or rather "want" from h is when I don't feel that he thinks it. I suppose that if I really were addressing it myself it wouldn't matter? na I think we all want a bit of reassurance from our spouses and that is why I direct it in his direction.
Quote: If you have goals for this R, and I'm sure you do; does H know about them? Does he agree to them? Has it all been laid out that this is the direction you need to go?
not on paper, but yes and h probably knows them better than I do. some things he can and will do and also agrees to. others he surprises me (and probaly himself too) by starting with the "that's just not me" attitude, my letting it go and whala the next thing ya know that's him. ie. suggesting we as a family go on a few weekend vacations this summer, suggesting we as a couple go on a vacation this fall/winter.
Quote: Every time you think about OW, you're taking another step deeper into that cheeseless tunnel. Do you forgive and move forward or not? Only you can decide that. Do you love - unconditionally - or not? That is your choice and no one else's. If you have decided to forgive, then DO IT. It doesn't mean you forget it forever, but it is something you choose to not obsess on anymore.
I forgive him, I forgive him, I forgive him...doesn't mean I still can't get a little sad about it now and then! it seems now when I think of ow it is not an anger it is a big question mark. were they meant to be...do we belong together? can we make eachother happy? I don't know! it's a bunch of bs and just more of my insecurity again I assume. but I do forgive him.
Quote: You may be holding expectations for H that he cannot meet, or is unaware of the depth of your feelings about them.
he doesn't think he can, but has shown me over and over that when he wants to...he excedes those expectations.
Quote: Try a little reflection, look at LL from H's POV. What is the message you are sending? Clingy, needy, insecure??
sure sometimes that is what he sees and I appologize for it, h most often understands and is comforting. the rest of the time he sees the exact opposite. trying to find the happy medium is the trick and believe me it's tricky.
Quote: But DO NOT go to the place where you even THINK that OW is deserving of your H. Never again.
you're absolutley right holdingon, she doesn't deserve him at all, whatever they had was based in deceit and therefore was not better that what we have!
thank you for making me realize that again. (I'm sure I'll need anther reality check at some point)
Quote: You certainly deserve more than that. Go back and read your posts, especially the one where you went to Newcomers to give everyone hope. It gave me hope.
I'm glad I offerd you hope, and I'm also glad that you've taken the time to help me out too. what so many don't realize is that just because ya make it to peicing doesn't mean your above the advice of those not there yet, often times those still in the trenches have a better grasp on things than those who have gotten to piecing.
despite my crappy feelings yesterday the day went very well.
h called several times letting me know his whereabouts.
h and I planned to spend some time together rather than his just going to bed early (he has been going to bed early when I'm at class, wich was 3 nights this week)
I went out in the afternoon with the kids to get some stuff at the mall (I got myself the new harry potter book, now I just have to find the time to read it!!) on the way home I called h's cell and discovered he was on his way home, he got home an hour earlier than normal!!!
when h got home he was smiling (damn he's cute when he's smiling) I got a hug.
after putting dd to bed son h and I sat in the basement watching tv, actually h took dd up to bed after I gave her a bath because she wanted to be daddy's baby, when h returned to the basement I was sitting on the couch and son was on the beanbag on the floor, h jumped on the couch and cuddled me for about an hour before going up to shower with son.
I went out and got a movie to watch with h.
h stayed awake for the movie.
then off to bed we went.
other than the lack of sexual contact the evening was a positive one.
h has called already today and let me know his whereabouts and his estimated arival time.
when I reminded h that I'd be going out tonight it almost sounded like he was dissapointed (he'd never actually say so it's not like him)
