WAW: Watching & Waiting

[lodo]

Hey bridge,

I'm happy to hear your academic life is positive. To me, fall is very hard due to the startup of the school year. When that's combined with trying to accomplish personal goals, it can feel overwhelming.

There was a boy, 13ish, on one of my rivertrips once, and we went for a hike together. Up in one of the side canyons, he found a frog next to a pond. The frog was recently deceased and he started poking at it. I asked him if he'd ever dissected a frog and he said that he had, but he hadn't paid much attention in class and didn't do very well on identifying the organs on the handout. I suggested we dissect the frog and after a little hesitation, he agreed. I gave him my pocket knife and he hunkered down in the sand and went to work on the frog. It became an exploration. He'd point at things and ask me what I thought it was. I'd say I wasn't sure. We'd both stare and poke at the thing until we puzzled it out.

He had a great time and I'm sure if he'd been given the same handout, he would have aced it.

Point is, you can't give H things to read and expect him to be hit with a great flash of insight. He has to come to it on his own or he'll never accept it.

I like FG's lifeguard analogy, but as a former lifeguard, I got pretty sick of people who went into situations where they never should have been or people who wouldn't take the smallest amount of responsibility for themselves. Things happen, it's true. But you can't make a life out of crises.

Sounds like you're rebuilding your wall. I am too, or building anyway. Careful though. Walls are generally not good things. They inhibit you as much as others.

Hope all is well. I've missed hearing from you.

lodo

[Forrest Gump]

"but as a former lifeguard, I got pretty sick of people who went into situations where they never should have been or people who wouldn't take the smallest amount of responsibility for themselves."

That comes from you knowing the danger.. you can see it a mile away.

I will bet you did not feel that way.. the first day on the job. You were ready.. willing.. and able.

Its funny how life changes you.. and your outlook.

You took the job.. knowing what you would have to do.

Save stupid people.

Why did the job.. loose its luster?

Did you run out of stupid people?

[lodo]

The job lost its luster because what was supposed to be a stop gap measure - save someone who was in over their head - became an expectation - I don't need to take responsibility for myself because someone else will be there to solve my problems for me.

[smartcookie]

Hi Bridge, I think I can understand your concerns. It wasn't too long ago that H would use things against me as well. I was very very cautious about what I would tell him.

That's also why I don't have him come to IC with me. I end up feeling too vulnerable & exposed.

I'm really glad to hear about your phone boundaries. Good job.

"if you hadn't pushed my buttons, I wouldn't have lost it"

I used to hear garbage like that too. I'd mention that to your C. Make sure your H learns that HE is responsible for his own actions.

Hugs to you !!

[Forrest Gump]

"The job lost its luster because what was supposed to be a stop gap measure - save someone who was in over their head - became an expectation"

What changed was not the Stupid People.. but your Outlook on those Stupid People.

The job.. ALWAYS had the expectation of saving Stupid People.


"I don't need to take responsibility for myself because someone else will be there to solve my problems for me."

Is this not.. what "WE" fight? LBS.. WAS?

Even if you solve your own problems.. don't we owe it to the person we said we would stand beside... to help?

Marriage.. is not a job.

It is a commitment.

Big Difference.

[Bridgestone]

Sorry Bridge if this offends you but he is being a Jackass!

yeah.. that thought goes through my head occassionally. I try to turn it into 'he is acting like a jackass'.

I like your boundries and the not answering his calls if you don't want to. I would keep all comunication with him limited to your kids and MC for now until her learns how to treat you with respect.

but don't we teach people how to treat us? I'm struggling with him learning, with me teaching... especially when he uses 'my teaching' as a nasty thing when he is angry.

The C. did tell him that he was responsible for his actions/words and that no one 'makes you say something you don't want to say'.

Of course, he was Mr. Angel in C. nodding, agreeing, being just the right amount of regretful, etc.

But the C. (& this brought tears to my eyes) looked at him & said.. how much different do you think Bridge would view you if you acted the way you do in here with her on a regular basis.

I have kept the phone boundary in place, explained to the C why I was not willing to communicate with him about R stuff in person & my fear & mistrust, giving H's actions when I do share.

The C. validated.. "I would feel the same way if someone ridiculed & disrespected me and would make similar choices."

I'm hoping to eventually get to where I don't need the C to validate my choice, but for right now... it was reassuring. Which helped build my confidence.

Thanks for your support in that too!
Bridge

[Bridgestone]

You da bomb Bridge!

How bout you tell the C what you posted here about hte communication wheel. That h takes what you say and turns it round on you later?

I shared that.. he validated & said he understood & would feel the same way and make similar choices if someone disrespected & ridiculed him in that way.

He looked at H and said are those the kinds of actions & words you are looking for when you get angry and choose to say the things you do to Bridge? H replied, no.. I want her to stop pushing my buttons & making me angry.

The counselor reminded him that me sharing my thought, feelings & wants (using the wheel) was not 'pushing his buttons' it was allowing me to be an equal in the room which H claims he wants.
C walked him through how his actions of degraded, ridiculing what I share (even weeks later) sabotages what H really wants.

How are things with you??
Bridge

[Bridgestone]

Hi Bridge, I think I can understand your concerns. It wasn't too long ago that H would use things against me as well. I was very very cautious about what I would tell him.

That's also why I don't have him come to IC with me. I end up feeling too vulnerable & exposed.

Thanks for understanding... it's such a relief to know others have BTDT & 'get me', otherwise I think I'd be nuts by now.

I'm really glad to hear about your phone boundaries. Good job.

thanks I think I'm doing a good job with that too.

I used to hear garbage like that too. I'd mention that to your C. Make sure your H learns that HE is responsible for his own actions.

again.. how do I make sure of that?? sharing it in counseling is a start... calling him on it outside of counseling, just adds fuel to the fire & I think it puts me back in charge of H's emotions & actions, like he is 3 & can't self-monitor or filter... uggg...

thanks for stopping by.

Hugs to you !!

[Bridgestone]

Point is, you can't give H things to read and expect him to be hit with a great flash of insight. He has to come to it on his own or he'll never accept it.

yep & that is why I am skeptical of his 'changes'. Especially when the blame for him returning to his 'old ways' is laid at my feet.
I don't think he has really has that flash of insight on his own.

Sounds like you're rebuilding your wall.

I don't think so... I think what I'm doing is detaching to the point that I am realizing that I can make my own choices and they are good choices and just b/c H has one view of reality, doesn't mean I have to have the same view. I'm learning that choices I make don't have the dire consequence that H predicts they will have just becasue he doesn't like them.

I am too, or building anyway. Careful though. Walls are generally not good things. They inhibit you as much as others.

I agree... trusting that you will be 'fine' without a wall, because you love yourself with or without 'someone', has been a hard step for me to make.

Hope all is well. I've missed hearing from you.

Busy is good for somethings, not for others, like sleeping & staying in touch with friends.

thanks for stopping by & for your support.
Peace
Bridge

[Bridgestone]

You will have to deal with it tonight.

to some extent.. there was a lot of hurt in the car ride home. I got the impression, he didn't think I would tell the C the things I did. I got the impression he wanted to justify and argue with the C's commentary about his actions of blaming and mostly of his anger. He had a lot of internal struggling going on. I kept trying to validate & understand from his perspective. I was pretty drained after the 2 hour car ride home & told him I needed space to regroup & re-energize. I got blamed him hurting because I left again.

"But why do my guts practically turn inside out whenever I hear his voice get intense, his nasty words take on my actions, his blame lay at my feet... ugg.."

This comes from past experience. The Expectation.. that something will be different.

I've puzzled over this comment & the next ones for a few days now. Yes.. past experience with H (as recently as last week) leaves me to believe that when his voice is intense, his words get nasty & he is judgemental he will be relentless until I am emotionally or mentally hurt.

I have a physical reaction... I draw inward, my shoulders hunch forward, my head goes down, my face freezes into my 'poker face', my breaths become shallow, my whole body freezes.. like a hare trying not to be seen by the fox in the meadow.

I am expecting that he will not intentionally frighten/scare/ridicule me if he loves me. I don't think that is an unrealistic expectation.

What if his nasty words are honest?

Honest to whom? Honest implies 'truth'.. there are several truths & perspectives. If they are 'honest' to him, I don't want to be with a man who believes those things about me. That is not who I am.

What if they don't take on your actions?

If he can do that and be self-aware.. it is easier. It has happened.. not often but it has happened.

What if his words are not intense?

C asked the same thing... told me I was to monitor his intensity and tell him when it was getting too much for me to handle. It has worked a couple times.. other times I get to it too late & he blows up. And again.. it becomes my responsibilty to monitor his feelings & my fault if he blows, becasue I didn't see it soon enough.

What if... He blames himself?

yep... he does afterward, when he is 'honest' & self-aware.

That creates this cycle... he blows up, reflects (takes 2 days to 2 weeks), falls into the woe-is-me pool & apologizing every other second (another 2 days to a week), I am compassionate & understand we all make mistakes, forgive him.. things are neutral (2 minutes to 2 days)...intensity builds (2 minutes to 2 days). back to blow up.

"I am beginning to feel pity for the man. But it is his pool to get out of not mine."

Someone.. once posted about a Lifeguard. A Lifeguard.. will keep throwing you something to grab hold of.. until you get it.

They always understand.. you gotta grab the "something".

at some point the lifeguard goes off duty & someone else takes their place... either the coast guard, the head life guard.. someone.

the other thing is if you are in the water with them... they pull you under. Try to climb out, by climbing on top of you... end result.. you both need saving or you both drown

Drowning.. yep.. that was how I described how I felt in my M. before I left.

thanks for your insight.. as always.. you make me think
Bridge