Cinco - what makes you think so (about the longest post)?
I have been thinking of you and your W and applying some of my top secret pyschic abilities upon you both (LOL!)...and I can "see" in your wife, her awkwardness and innocence regarding sex. I have had lots of women friends who have that same "look"...the look of a woman who does not and will not "display" her sexuality.
Which does not mean that these women are not still beautiful and sexy! Sometimes they are even more sexy because they don't know that they are so sexy!
The good news is that if, somehow through all of this stuff, you can steer her toward some counseling/sex therapy, I think she can get her sexy back. You had mentioned her getting it back before, and I think she can and will....
Understanding more about all the miscarriages fills in a lot of blanks.
Did she ever get individual counseling for that issue? All the pain and loss and fear, and the other crud that goes along with feeling like you can't bear more children? Maybe you could zoom through amazon and check out books in that nature...books for mommies who have gone through all the stuff.
And while you're at it, just order another copy of SSM for yourself!!!
One thing I would propose to you - - is that you stop "hiding" yourself from her. By that I mean, things like, you once said she made a comment about a viagra commercial and was mocking the "old" people who are still having sex like teenagers. You said that inside you were thinking that you envied them. Well...next time something like that comes up, just SAY IT out loud..."speak for yourself wife! I envy them!" And don't make apologies for how you feel about it. Don't let her shut you down, or don't let fear shut you down from saying things that really should not be offensive. You are entitled to your feelings after all! I bet if you did this more often (speaking up), and if you don't apologize for it, and if you make it somewhat playful...you will draw her out a bit by making her realize that she had been stiffling your true reactions...but now you won't be stiffled. I think that would actually help BOTH of you move ahead a little more.
What do you think?
I had dream last night that this whole website was actually a spiritual and emotional "hospital" of sorts, and that we are all here being spiritual doctors to each other, and we are all connected mentally and pyschically, even if not physically.
No she never got any counseling for this issue. Also after that one very scary episode our SSM condition worsened. I never really connected the two. We grieved together at not being able to have more children then (I thought) had moved beyond that point. Is it that sex for her is only for making babies and now that we can't any longer she has no interest in it?
I have mentioned the "I'm a mommy now" change in her after our D was born. She was very sexy when she was younger. She has some photos of herself before I knew her when her hair was down to her waist. I should have added the picture of us both at age 27. It looks like a different person (I even had hair back then too, LOL I miss hair. ). We even have some Poleroid pics we took of each other fooling around in the bedroom in our early days (Needless to say I won't be publishing these).
Actually I do speak up when those commercials come on. The latest ED pill you take daily, I said, "That's the one I'd get if I ever need one. I want to be ready all the time. I wish they would would hurry up and come up with the woman version."
My thread's up over 160 posts, they usually lock them at about 100. Maybe they fixed the problem with long threads now?
Oh you're both just lovely!!!! I can "see" you both then, in your pictures now...
Cinco, I'm praying very hard for all three of you. Try to have faith. Remember that sometimes - people turn 180's out of nowhere! And your wife maybe one of those. With prayer, effort, love, and support, it is possible!
Your prayers mean so very much to me, thank you for this. I know that prayers DO get answered because I turned a 180 seemingly out of nowhere. It was my prayers for the answers in my troubled life that turned me around.
Cinco, I don't talk about it here much, but I have had addiction issues in the past...along with the cheating behaviors when I was married...
Every time I was truly repentent and asked for "help" with any issue, that help was given to me. I can feel a warm loving calm presence wash over me when I am truly open to receiving that help, and I do find that whatever addiction was niggling at me, suddenly gets "blocked", and I am not niggled by it anymore when I've prayed for that help!
The key is being TRULY repentent and TRULY needing/wanting/accepting help. That's when it works.
It doesn't work if you ask for help but you don't actually intend on trying to help yourself. If you expect Him to do it all for you, it won't work. But if you resolve to quit a behavior, and resolve that you will do the hard work to quit it, and you ask for help in remaining strong...then suddenly....you are stronger than you ever thought you could be and its easier than you imagined it could possibly be!
Maybe you know what I am describing here? I think you do.
So here's another thing...
I think maybe we can somehow get Mrs. Cinco to make those prayers for herself. I think that once she realizes that you are going to eventually ask for a divorce, then she will have no choice but to pray for help. And once she does that, from a place of fear and insecurity over losing you, she will finally be TRULY asking Him for help...and that is when a miracle just might occur.
I have to shake you by the shoulders again though and tell you to NOT let this subject drop for weeks at a time. When you do that, you are telling her with your inaction that you will accept things the way they are. So your job is to keep on her until she fully understands that there will be an ultimatum. Keep bringing up those tough conversations, no matter how many tears or insults she throws at you. Do NOT back down from your conviction to have a happy and passionate life.
Another thing I haven't really described on this board is that, when I was married and we were sexless and miserable, I prayed and prayed and prayed that some how my sex drive would come back. I prayed for a wild, fun sex life. I prayed to be free from whatever was "wrong" with me that caused me to have no sex drive. I prayed like this for literally 10 years in a row. I keep my journals, so I can go back and read those prayers now...I am amazed at how long I prayed for the same thing!
But what finally had to happen was...I had to get divorced. The answer to my prayer was "yes I will give you back your sex drive, but you are with the wrong man". I kept refusing that answer, but wondering why my prayer wasn't answered. Until the day I woke up and said "I can't live like this anymore...I'm moving out".
That was the day my sex life finally improved, and NOW my sex life is everything I prayed for all of those years. And NOW I understand that every sign along the way had told me that I was with the wrong man. I loved him, and I could have easily remained married to him forever...but I would have never felt my passion with him. That was the final lesson I had to accept.
Cinco, I hope this isn't the case for you and Mrs. Cinco. But maybe you should be prepared for it, just in case. I think you are getting to the point where you are beginning to prepare yourself.
My point still stands though - one way or the other, my prayer was finally answered. PRAYER WORKS!
Have hope! One way or the other! And we'll help you get through it either way.
...NOW I understand that every sign along the way had told me that I was with the wrong man. I loved him, and I could have easily remained married to him forever...but I would have never felt my passion with him. That was the final lesson I had to accept.
DQ, this is my great dilemma as well. I have known this for a very long time. I love this woman very much too, I can see myself remaining married with her and us growing old together. However I don't (at this time anyway) see her ever finding her passion for me and I don't get to express my passion for her as I would like to because of this.
Without being able to express myself physically with her, I feel like I am existing only half-alive in this marriage. I pray that she will open herself to finding this sensual part of herself again. I pray that I will have the patience to give her time to do this.
I can't live like this anymore, but I will give her time. It won't be like the last time I was at the end of my rope and walked out. This time she has advance warning, she knows what I am asking of her. This time I am showing her how good things can be between us if she will only accept ALL of the love I have to offer her, not just a part of myself.
If we are truly right for one another, she will find this lost part of herself, her passion for me. I can no longer hide that part of myself from her. It has been hidden for so long because I thought she no longer wanted this part of myself (I also accept that this may never change). This IS the true Cinco, she must accept me as I truly am if she wants to stay with me. If she cannot accept that her husband wants to have a full blown vibrant marriage, she'll have to accept that he will leave her.
I hope that isn't the outcome of all of this but I can now accept if it is.
We had a great Saturday! I cooked the meal that evening, again with some coaching. I learned how to cook chicken in a pressure cooker with some broth for flavoring. Cut this up to make D's favorite chicken casserole with sour cream, cream of whatever soup and topped with buttered cracker crumbs. Also make a salad to go along with it. It was a huge success and D and I even went back for seconds. I still haven't tried the Bar-B-Q chicken, I'll work my way up to that one once I have a little more confidence in the kitchen.
I left a note on W's sowing machine to come to bed that night in something sexy or nothing at all. That evening she chose nothing at all and we ML and I mean really ML! The best part though was afterwards while we lay and held each other.
It felt right to talk about having children. "W, I wish we could have just one more baby together? I know we are too old now but if we were able to I would like to give you one more."
"Yes but it's too late for us now."
"Do you ever think about the ones that we lost?"
"Sometimes I think of them, but not all of the time."
"I guess they were just not meant to be for us. I'm so sorry that we didn't have more though. At least we have D. She is growing up so wonderfully, I'm so glad that we have her in our life. W, you know that I love you so much."
"Yes. I do."
If I'll have enough patience and learn to wait for her and not have any expectations of her, I think we can have the marriage that I wish for the both of us. She is slowly seeing how our marriage can be so much more than it was before. I have hope for us once more.
). We even have some Poleroid pics we took of each other fooling around in the bedroom in our early days (Needless to say I won't be publishing these).
I still haven't tried the Bar-B-Q chicken, I'll work my way up to that one once I have a little more confidence in the kitchen.