I feel that you should really just go into self-examination mode right now...about your life, your career, and your marriage. And try not to feel guilty about it, either. Take a really good look at what you really want...I know you really want your wife, but for now, pretend it is truly only about you only....if you could put any pain your W and D would experience from a divorce on a shelf and pretend that part would not be a factor, then what would your choices be?
If I am being truly honest with myself, I know that I cannot give up or squelch my sexuality, it is a part of me that is here to stay. I cannot split it off and compartmentalize it like I have done for the past 17 years. That double-life I was leading is over now, I am leading one life now as a healthy sexual man. That decision is made.
Now I am giving my W time to make her decision, she has to decide if she wants to have a marriage that includes a healthy SL or not. I don't think that she really wants this and only wants to stay married as we have been for the last 17 years. She will not look inside herself enough to find that part of her. Every time I try to help her look it is a battle. I want her to find it but I can't force or wait forever for her to find it. As I have said, she has no interest in counseling at all, why would she when she is perfectly happy to exist without passion?
Even today we had a little talk and she said, "Why do you have to bring up the sex thing all the time? I thought I was doing what you wanted." Chore-sex, good-sex, ML it's all the same to her. She still has not read the SSM book and probably never will.
Without considering my W and D and the impact on their lives, I would just leave now. I have had that part of myself chipped away for far too long and see no real and lasting changes to get it back with her right now. I know what being wanted feels like and I still do not feel that with her now. I want to live now, I want it to be with her, if it is not with her then I am ready to face the unknown rather than go on existing in a dead marriage.
I am trying so hard and I DO want to give her time to respond. God please help her to see what I want is for us both. I don't want to leave her but I don't want to feel like this. Feeling like this made me turn to darkness and I will NOT go there again... I can't go there again.
Cinco - just a hypothetical question...a slightly different question than the one I posed above....
If you could take a pill that would squealch your sex-drive, down to the point of your wife's, so that you did not have mis-matched libidos, would you do it? For the sake of answering the question, assume that you would not feel desire or urges and you would not feel "deprived" of those desires. They would just simply be gone from your awareness and you never thought about sex anymore.
Can I get one of those that would boost my wife's drive though? LOL
I would only take if it we would have totally passionate mind blowing sex every other month (or whatever the frequency she would choose). The libido-match pill wouldn't change that though.
Ok that is fair...but now lets say that once you are on the drug, you no longer care if it is mind-blowing or chore-sex once per month. All you would need is a simple release/orgasm once a month or so, and you could do it yourself and be ok with that, too.
See you are only saying that you would insist on the mind-blowing once-per-month sex, because you are HD, you have had mind-blowing sex before, and you right NOW feel you can't live without it.
But I am suggesting a hypothetical situation where you would not miss it, not long for it, not even think about it.
(ie: in the matrix...take the blue pill, or the red pill...)
Actually I did do it myself for a long time and seemed ok with it, then I missed the closeness of another person (remember separate bedrooms for like 6 years). I realized how alone I felt without being able to embrace her. That loneliness drove me to the OW more than lack of sex.
If the pill kills even wanting to be touched by someone, not sexually just lovingly... forget it... just kill me now.
You know there are guys who voluntarily castrate themselves. This is totally unthinkable to me, you'd have to be insane to want this. I have a hard time even getting a vasectomy (still haven't done this but almost did this once and chickened out).
Hmmm....ok...well I still think you are unable to separate yourself from how you feel right now in order to truly examine the question.
Part of my asking the question was so that you could examine how your wife TRULY feels...there isn't anything "wrong" with her, she just has little to zero sex drive. From everything you've written, you have not said anything that would indicate there is "more to her story" (ie: past history of sex abuse, etc). Instead, from everything you've written, you are describing a woman who loves her husband and daughter very much. She has low self-esteem, but not so much that it is crippling. And she has little to no sex drive. But this does not describe a woman who has something wrong with her. She is just DIFFERENT than you.
There is nothing similar at all between the hypothetical question I am asking you, and a man voluntarily castrating himself...sheesh! Again, this just shows how you are unable to even imagine having no sex drive...
But that's ok...it was just hypothetical.
I had been thinking that, whenever you get around to the ultimatum, or in writing a letter to your wife to get the ultimatum rolling...you could say something like:
"You that I love you so much, that if I could take a magic pill that would make my libido get lowered to the same level as yours, I would do it. And I know you love me so much that if there was a magic pill that made your libido raise up to my level, you would take it. But there is no such drugs. And we are left with the fact that we are different and we cannot change who we are...so what do we do from here?"
And then you could offer some options:
*Marriage counseling
*Sex Therapy
*Separation
*Divorce
(do not offer an open marriage - LOL!)
This way, you would be trying to show her that as much as you love her and would change yourself if you could, just to still be with her, you can't because no such drug exists and therefore, being that you are not going to change and you WANT to experience your passion...you are going to have to tell her under no uncertain terms, that one way or another, you will seek a resolution to the fact that you are currently unable to experinece your passion.
One more thing I wanted to say...
The talk you had last night was not her discussing her feelings. She was just being defensive. That talk was ZERO about her inner feelings, why she feels this way, if she thinks there is actually any way she could change, what the causes of her low desire are...and so forth. That convo was just her trying to get you to get off her back....it was not a freeing and expressing conversation, like I had suggested in my thread yesterday. Just wanted you to realize that and not take her words to heart too much from last night....because those were not words that came from her heart. They only came from her fight or flight reflex, which has nothing to do with her feelings about HERSELF and her sexuality.
I have a hard time even getting a vasectomy (still haven't done this but almost did this once and chickened out).
Dude (and I never say 'dude');
If you know, for sure, that you are all done having kids, then it's one of the best several hundred dollars you'll ever spend. No more birth control worries for either you or your wife, period. No pill side effects for her, no nasty condoms for you: just pure sexual pleasure with no fretting over unwanted pregnancy.
This is coming from a guy who if he even so much as looked at his wife cross-eyed during her ovulation period, she'd get pregnant. Our first child was conceived on our honeymoon; for the next two (planned), my wife was pregnant the instant she or me went off birth control (from the guy's perspective, where's the fun in that!?); and the last was our 0.1% baby (you know, 99.9% effective? he's the other 0.1%). So vasectomy = very sweet, for us.
Yeah, the procedure is uncomfortable, but not terrible. The ride home is not fun, and you are well advised to make a bag of frozen vegetables your very best friend for a couple of days afterwards, but it's worth it.
I also know that it's helped to improve my sex-life. One less worry for either of us.
-- B.
Last edited by Bagheera; 09/10/0811:05 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Wow Baggy...I'd be careful if I were you...isn't there a .00001% chance even after a vasectomy??? Sounds like that would be the fifth child for you!!! Wear a condom dude.
I know our difference in drive is our only problem. No she has never had any sexual trauma. Yes, just a different drive than me and much lower after child. Living a life without passion, I can tell you is very empty, I have existed that way enough to know. As long as I am able to, I WILL live passionately now. Isn't that what we are all striving for on this board? The pill idea is interesting and it may help her to see that I would do anything (other than part with the jewels ) I could to make our life together filled with passion. My preference of course is for it to be with her. (I think she is the one who jokingly suggested an open marriage... LOL is right)
Absolutely she goes into defensive mode when this subject comes up. We never really solve it, it is always just back peddling and fights. I have made more progress towards making this better for us this summer than ever before though. I attribute this to having a much better and loving attitude towards her now and also learning that this is about our emotional connection and not simply a physical act. If she'll just get past being defensive, she may be able to see this something we can work on together to solve. I have really tried to always make this about "us" rather "me" when we do talk.
Baggy -
I know it's silly to not do this (vas). It's funny we even talked about this not long ago. It's just that we are so close to menopause now, why bother? We've just never had that hyper-fertility like you and Mrs. B have. We have always been very haphazard about birth control since even when we are trying very hard to get pregnant, nothing would happen. No pill, hasn't taken it for 20 years. Condoms? Lately I have not used them as much, I prefer without but will use them if she is ovulating. We still consider our only daughter a miracle since we have had something like 10 miscarriages over the years. Actually if you wanted to point to any kind of trauma, this might be it.
I am so blessed to have found you wonderful people here on this board. Thanks so much for your insight.
) I could to make our life together filled with passion. My preference of course is for it to be with her. (I think she is the one who jokingly suggested an open marriage... LOL is right)