The Bumpy Road to Recovery #2

[Bagheera]

I know you don't like the "nonsexual" threads, but would you mind jumping over to my thread (linked under my signature) and seeing if there is something/anything there that you could comment on? I would really appreciate it.

It isn't a matter of my "not liking" to post on the other forums, it's just that I don't know enough about DBing to feel confident about advising anyone. I haven't had to bust a divorce, we haven't had any affairs or walk-aways, and I haven't even read the DB or DR books. It's out of my area of so-called expertise.

The one thing that I will ask you to consider is that throughout your thread and reports on your situation, I continue to see a lot of ANGER and SPITEFULNESS, alternating with CLINGING and DESPAIR. I can't blame you for having any of these emotions, but whenever you interact with your spouse in any way, you'll need to push those emotions aside completely. You and your H are very good at pushing each other buttons, exchanging jabs, and acting like you're at war --> leading you to either be spiteful to him, say something angrily to him, or break down completely in front of him.

You H needs to see the part of you that he originally fell in love with: neither clinging & desperate nor angry & spiteful. Somehow, you need to center yourself and find the self-contained, self-confident woman inside of yourself. Then, display that woman to him in every interaction, and NOT let him goad you into behavior that hurts your cause.

Best of luck to you,

-- B.

[Bagheera]

Update:

After the dip last week, we've been on a 'connection' upswing this week: feeling closer emotionally, touching more, and better love-making. Touch fanatic that I am, I just have to remind myself that at this stage in our recover, she still needs a fair amount of space each day, and that if I go overboard I'll have to pay the price when she pulls back afterwards.

Over time, her tolerance and enjoyment of touching and connecting should go up, as we both get used to it again after many years of marginal connection.

Time, and patience,

Bagheera

[silverado]

B-

I simply LOVE your "cake and frosting" analogy over on Fixit's thread!! Ingenious! Did you come up with that one yourself?

A note about me...Silverado almost NEVER eats cake without frosting. In fact, cake is merely a vehicle to be able TO EAT FROSTING. I have even been known to eat frosting straight out of the can (only cream cheese will do) or bowl (preferably chocolate buttercream). My D13 also eats frosting in this fashion.

Perhaps, as my daughter develops, our Mom/Daughter talks should include a discussion about frosting. "Dear, never marry a man who scrapes off the frosting...it's a very important sign..." "Mom, are you feeling alright?" LOL!

Silverado

[Bagheera]

It's my own silly analogy, but it's still based upon Michelle's Intimacy Dilemma (pgs 55-62 of The SSM) -- just taking it a step further based upon other books and my own experience.

I would caution you to give the young men that your daughter dates a bit of break. It takes a young man time, and experience, to even notice that the frosting is there, and how wonderful it is. Young men generally only feel the drive to 'get cake' and lots of it -- and it's the young women who generally put the brakes on and say "hold up, cowboy," and insist on the emotional intimacy too (their version of 'cake').

At some point, the young man will 'grow up' (although some never do), and realize that cake is just BLECH! without the frosting. I personally can't stand plain-cake, and hence never sought affairs during 20 years of sex-starved marriage. But that's me.

Other men prefer it with the frosting, but will eat it without -- just as many women will do the same in their own respective way. This is the common case on these boards: the man is dying for sex, ANY sex, even without emotional connection, while the wife is dying for emotional connection, any connection, and doesn't care a wiff about the sex.

Then there's your case, eh? Simply analogies don't work for everything....

-- B.

[DanceQueen]

And then there's me... I like frosting cake. You know, where the cake batter is actually made out of frosting, so the whole cake is both frosting and cake.

:0)

(nah, just being silly)....tee hee....I actually prefer cookies.

How are you lately, Mr. Bagheera?

DQ

[Bagheera]

How are you lately, Mr. Bagheera?

DQ

Not too bad, actually. The students are back at the university where I work, clogging up the sidewalks; our own kids are also back in school, giving Mom such much needed alone-time during the day (which definitely helps our sex-life in giving her a chance to 'recharge'); and the weather is starting to cool off to that enjoyable, fall, balmy state.

On the SSM front, I'm currently going through Why Mars and Venus Collide and have finally ordered the much-talked-about-here Passionate Marriage. We're still seeing our counselor/sex therapist, and our 'assignments' for this week are for her to look for and express positives in dealing with me (she generally expresses negatives but remains silent on the positives); and for me to seek out new male friendships or revitalize some old ones (does this sound familiar Nice Guys?).

The other thing I'm personally working on is to 'read' my wife's mood and feelings better than I have in the past. This is partly due to my being the more emotional one in the relationship, and therefor I have a tendency to project MY feelings rather than reading hers accurately. It's also due to the fact that I'm visually impaired, a fact I've not shared here before.

Here's a bit of the story:

In 1993, I was working in the nuclear power industry, and was involved in an on-the-job injury: severe chemical burns to both eyes, which resulted in permanent blindness near-total sight loss for the next seven years. Add that to a marriage that was already strained, and you get, uh, SEVERE strain. In one smooth stroke, I lost my eyesight, my career path (which requires good vision), my job and the family's income (we were single income at the time), and my manhood (as far as I was concerned).

For me, being 'a man' is about being able to protect, provide for, and care for myself and others. It is about being completely independent and self-reliant. It is about being strong and confident in dealing with others. So losing my eyesight, in my view, meant a loss of my manhood too -- I was, initially, completely helpless and had to be taken care of by others. I worked hard to recover myself, and within two years of the initial injury, I was able to take care of myself again, move about town independently (with long cane or my guide-dog), and was back in college again full-time, and working on my second career (and kicking butt grade-wise). Within twelve years, I had a fresh Ph.D. and was able to support the family again, income wise (sort of a loooong career training path, but it's what I wanted to do).

Throughout it all my wife stood firmly beside me, which goes a great deal toward her credit --> I met many other men in Blind Rehabilitation who lost their wives and children when they lost their eyesight. Add the stages of anger and grieving that the person who lost their sight has to go through to the mix of everything else, and it strains many marriages to the breaking point. I was already in a strained SSM, and yet we stuck it out. She stood by her man, even when he was down, very angry, and helpless for a while. This was a big part of why I decided last year to put EVERY EFFORT into rebuilding my marriage and making it what we both dreamed it should be, rather than pitching in the towel: she deserved my every effort, and then some.

Back to the original topic:

In 2000 I underwent a surgery that restored some limited vision to one eye, which is a great help. BUT, I still can't read facial expressions, and body language is often hard to pick up too. That leaves me with voice and touch to go by, in reading her moods and feelings. And it needs some work. I am primarily a kinesthetic (touch oriented) person, followed by the visual, the audio, and lastly olfactory. The eyesight loss heightened the first, destroyed the second, and I've improved at the third; but really reading someone *accurately* through audio only (without the visual cues) is still rough sometimes. Think of only being able to read your spouse's feelings over the phone all the time...it can be done, but you yearn just to see their face, and look into their EYES, in particular.

And now you know THE REST OF THE STORY.

Good day,

Bagheera

[DanceQueen]

Wow Baggy...so at this time, you only have limited sight in one eye? So I would assume that you have many visual aides, such as high magnification thingys to view your computer screen and for other reading?

Also, do you still have a guide dog? What is that like? Do you get guide dogs from an agency on a temp basis and then give them back if there is improvement, or is it that once you get a dog you keep that dog forever? I would imagine those dogs must be worth a lot due to their extensive training.

[Bagheera]

Wow Baggy...so at this time, you only have limited sight in one eye? So I would assume that you have many visual aides, such as high magnification thingys to view your computer screen and for other reading?

Aye -- I uses a variety of software, magnification devices, and other aids to function both professionally and personally.

Also, do you still have a guide dog? What is that like? Do you get guide dogs from an agency on a temp basis and then give them back if there is improvement, or is it that once you get a dog you keep that dog forever? I would imagine those dogs must be worth a lot due to their extensive training.

Yes, I'm currently working with my third guide-dog, all of whom have come from The Seeing Eye in Morristown, NJ. He's a young (4 year old), German Shepherd male; bright, alert, good at his job, and very people oriented (and currently curled up in the corner of my office). The Seeing Eye gives full ownership of the dog to the handler upon graduation (most schools maintain ownership), so that he's my full responsibility: he'll be able to work for about 8-10 years total (health dependent), and will then be a retired "Mama's dog" in the house, while I go back for a youngster again.

Steering the topic back to SSM's and such, the guide-pup stays at home with the baby-sitter (and the kids) when the wife and I go out on dates, while I go sighted-guide or long-cane as necessary. I find him to be a bit of a distraction and third-wheel when I want my focus to be on my wife. On the other hand, if I was JUST meeting and dating someone, I'd use the pup: I can move about much more quickly and smoothly with the dog than using a cane. It's all a matter of circumstance and convenience.

-- B.

[DanceQueen]

Cheers to you for being one of the planet's unmistakable examples of man's determination, and the power of the human spirit to over come all obstacles.

One more Q...you described how loss of sight has caused increase in some other senses....what about your imagination and/or dreams? Have you found that your dreams are any more or less vivid, or your visions, daydreams, imagination any more or less vivid?

[Bagheera]

One more Q...you described how loss of sight has caused increase in some other senses....what about your imagination and/or dreams? Have you found that your dreams are any more or less vivid, or your visions, daydreams, imagination any more or less vivid?

No, it's a myth that your other senses get better --> you just learn to pay much better attention to them. Don't I wish: after years of shooting guns, playing in bands, and working in very loud power plants, my hearing isn't stellar anymore either.

Dreams: that's a weird topic, actually. Sometimes I dream in "full senses" mode (I was 32 when the eyesight loss occurred, so my brain is still very sight oriented). Sometimes I dream in "blind mode" with my current crap-for-vision. Sometimes I'm blind in the dream, but can still "see" everything in it -- like watching a movie about a blind man. So my more poor sub-conscious doesn't know what to do sometimes. Daydreams and fantasies are unchanged, really, from my fully-sighted days.

Again, steering the topic back to this forum: my sight loss has indeed made me more sexually oriented toward touch and feel, and not so much the usual, standard-male visual orientation. For those seven years, I couldn't see my wife and kids, nor any women, for that matter (and I missed it incredibly). Now with some restored sight, I have 'limited access' to visual stimulation.

Now imagine my being in a sex-starved marriage with a woman who isn't touch oriented, and with whom there wasn't an active sex life. When your wife turns into a dis-embodied voice out there most of the time, except for perhaps a hug once or twice a day....for days on end....I was not a happy man, at all. I gave good meaning to the term 'starving.'

-- B.