Please help me to not give up............

[grant]

Hi Sandi. Can't thank you enough for your compassion and the time you are taking on my behalf.

It just helps enormously having your experience and thoughts laid before me.

Re my W not wanting me to be more at home....

I know it is her bitterness and resentment talking here. I appreciate that I must do whatever is best for me and the boys. I just don't know what that is right now.
It feels like I have no option rather than to continue being separated and working away. If I go against her wishes it would probably do more harm than good. I am torn though, because it is one of the main reasons for our break up, and I do need to be around my boys much more than I have in the past. I just haven't been there for them nearly enough.

Do you think I should just not mention it again to her?

She has said that she knows it's my house, and she can't stop me being there whenever I want to.

Just to clarify, my W asked ME to leave when she delivered the bomb in March. I think I mentioned before that this seemed the only option at the time, because it was she who looked after the boys, and leaving the family home wasn't an option. Also her Mum now lives there too.
She said she needed time and space to see if she missed our marriage.
But of course, her EA had some bearing on it too!!

Well, I gave her space and time, even though I knew she was having the affair.
I have got many things wrong during this time, but I don't feel bad about breaking down so badly in the earlier times. I feel that at least I showed what it all meant to me. She has said so many times that she felt that I didn't show her enough love, even felt that I was not in touch with my emotions.

I am actually a very emotional, quite sensitive person, but my self respect has taken a real bashing over the last 10 years. Perhaps I feel that I haven't quite realised my full potential in my career, and financially, it's been a real struggle for us at times. There have been good times too. Though most of that seems to have been forgotten or rewritten.

I do have enormous problems trying to get away from feeling I'm completely to blame for all this, but I really thank you for urging me to try to move away from that mindset.

It was truly wonderful what you wrote about "Faith". I am a spiritual person, and do have a belief in God and a Higher Power. I can see that even now, things could be much worse for me in many respects, and I like to believe that is God's intervention.
I made a very big mistake in consulting with that Psychic a few months ago.
What was scary, was that she described everything in graphic detail about my situation, and wife's feelings and circumstances. She of course intimated that we would get divorced and W would be with OM. I wish that I didn't have that in my head to contend with. It makes this all the more hard.

I did wonder that she might have been looking at a possible future, and not a definite one. I believe that the future is not written yet, and it's possible to make changes to an outcome. That's what I've chosen to believe right now. I am fighting on in spite of this......... I know I must.

I will resolve to expect nothing from her. I told her in the past, that I have no expectations. For as long as I am able, I will love her unconditionally.
She did believe that I was going to turn nasty, and we'd end up hating each other. I could never hate her, even though I am so desperately heartbroken.

I try to remember what I was feeling when I had my online affair. It was different for me, as I know it often is different for men vs women. I never wanted to end my marriage, and cut my A right off. I know I shouldn't even bothering comparing the sitch, cos where we are now, is a result of so many things over the years for her. It's not just that she's ended our M because of this guy, more that she's had all she can take from me.

I'm not doing any R talk or mentioning D. I am very aware now, that is a bad thing, and I won't be doing it unless she initiates. Looking ahead, if she wants our separation to be permanent, or wants a D, then we will just have to sell the house. I know she was deeply worried about that prospect because there's no way currently she could get a mortgage on her own. She has been working part-time for the last few years running her own hairdressing business, but now wants to step that up to a more full time situation. She's obviously making plans to try to be more independent. But even working full time, she wouldn't be able to get a place of her own without help.

It's funny you mentioning about finances etc. She seems to be very conscious about NOT asking me for anything other than paying the mortgage, and stuff for the kids. So I don't think it's likely that she'll drain the account. (Not that there's ever very much in there. lol )

Funnily enough, she did say that she wants us to get her a new car. I had been thinking about changing it anyway, but I'm a little reluctant to just give her everything she wants right now. I do want to provide, and to keep paying for our house and for the boys, but I'm not sure whether making a further financial commitment would be a wise thing to do at this juncture.

Perhaps, as you say Sandi, I feel I would just be enabling her to carry on her life without any ostensible impact. She's got her life, the boys, the house, and her A. Feels like at the moment, I just need to go with the flow, try to be a good dad when I can, and become a trusted friend. There's just so few opportunities right now to show me at my best.

I'm going to do my best to continue to act "as if" in my interactions with her, and I do know the difference. It just feels some days as if I'm just lying to myself and being in denial, just to get me through the day.

One thing I do know, is that sooner or later, something will change. Nothing stays the same forever. That's clear. Sometimes, even though I think I'm doing all I can to make changes, and they are heartfelt and honest, I wonder whether I'm doing enough. I never want to feel at the end of this that I didn't do enough, and there might have been something more I could have done. I would find it hard to live with that.

I think I know the list you mean. I've seen it somewhere on the board, so I'll go get it and glue it to my forehead........ doh!
Think I've pretty much got most of it memorised anyhow. I've read the book so much now.........

Not too much to go on with the family and friends thing. My family live 500 miles away, though they are supportive as they can be. I really miss my extended family too. We are all very close and they had been my support network as well as my wife's.

I guess I don't really have that many "friends" of a close nature. Maybe that's an indication that I haven't been doing that well with relationships. My W was always my best friend, and sadly, that for the moment is gone.

I am eating better, working out, etc. Still not sleeping too well, and I do still seem to be crying sometimes, whenever I see or hear something that affects me. I am coping though.

Off to see my C tonight.

Do you think it might be worth my while talking to to a DB coach? I have thought about it, but wondered whether my sitch was too complex/hopeless?

I'm not sure what a DB coach might tell me that I don't already know through the book, and the wonderful selfless people on this board that have offered support and sound advice. Particularly you Sandi. Absolutely not ruling that out though. No stone unturned and all that.......

Thanks to your efforts, and this board, I can and do draw strength and knowledge here. It is a great source of comfort and solace and I'm so grateful.

Bless you Sandi.

Grant.

[sandi2]

Good morning Grant,

It was rather late when I got on the bb last night and I did not get around to everyone, but I wanted to check on you this morning to see how you are doing. I really believe that under the circumstances of your work keeping you from home so much and since your MIL lives with your wife and kids in your house, so then maybe it is best to keep that like it is. I wish you could be closer and at home more often but you know what you can and can’t do so we have to go with that for now. On the positive side of your stitch, you must think of yourself outshining the OM. This will be like a competition in a way. While you are away from the wife, continue to work on your personality in trying to be more like your were when she was first attracted to you and fell in love with you. Now if you were like me and very young…..then of course, you must not act like a kid, you have to put the maturity in there, but I think you know what I mean by what I’m trying to say here. One of the down sides of a MR is that we start talking like a W or a H. When you go home and are around her, try your best not to talk to her like a H. Do you know what I mean by that? At first, you have to regain her friendship before you can expect her to feel the attraction and the “in love” feelings for you again. So, that is the angle to work from. Talk to her like you were her friend. That will be hard b/c you well be feeling all the emotions of being in love with this woman who is still your wife, but you must discipline yourself to treat her like you would treat a guest that is staying in your home. BTW, do you have a good relationship with her mother?

Continue to work on your charm. Practice with others. Charm is not necessarily “flirting” as some may think. Anyone can have charming ways about them, and most everyone responds to a charming person b/c others like people who have charm. Perhaps you have always been very polite and used very good manners, but in case they need polished, you can be practicing on that while you are away. If there are in pitfalls in your temperament that needs to be corrected….this is the time to do that. By being away from her, it gives you the time to keep practicing these things until they are set in place. B/c you want to become the best man that you can be. Of course, you are hoping she is going to see this and respond (in time) in a positive way—but the main thing is to remember you are doing this for yourself. If this should not turn out like you hope, then you will know that you are a better man than you were in the beginning of all this mess. So, work on improving all the “inside” things that make up Grant. Then also, work on the outside…..the physical part that she will see. People see our bodies before they have a chance to learn who we are on the inside. In a way, the same applies to her b/c she is not going to allow herself to get close to the inside of you, so you want her to notice the outside changes. Maybe there is not that much you need to change and if you don’t –that is great and you are very blessed. However, you do need to work out with some type of exercise routine b/c not only will it help you physically to feel good and look better, but it has been proven that exercise will help you mentally and it will improve your self esteem and depression. So, really go to work on that and see if it proves itself out….okay? I have had men to say that after they started getting serious about working out that they could not believe how good it made them feel about themselves, and Grant, you need to feel good about yourself. Your self esteem is taking a beating from your wife….but also from yourself. Please stop beating yourself up b/c it will not help. Learn from your mistakes and just resolve to do better in the future.

When you go home, show that personality of yours in the best light that you can. Be up beat and act as if you are happy to be home and that you are going to be okay regardless of how things work out. Now, don’t “over-kill” with acting here. Be natural, but just try to keep from breaking down in front of her and be in a positive mood around her.

Avoid arguments and avoid R talks. If she brings it up, then you have to handle it carefully. When she talks to you, look her in the eyes and listen to what she says without interrupting her. Do not do anything else while she is talking to you. That way, she will know that she has your undivided attention. If she says things that you can agree with and you know it is the truth, you can nod your head or say, “I understand why you feel that way”. If you don’t agree with her, don’t get into an argument with her. Just say, “I’m sorry you feel that way”. If she wants to know what you plan to do about it, just say you are doing the best that you can right now, but don’t fight with her. If she is determined to fight….walk away until she cools off.

While you are away, you can think of things to plan for having special and fun times with your kids. Your W will probably act as though she does not want to be around you, so act as if that does not bother you! Pour all your attention into your kids. When she is around, really pretend to be having a great time with the kids so it will get her attention. If she acts interested in what is going on, or if you and the kids decide to go get ice cream or whatever, invite her along. Just keep it short and sweet and say, “The kids and I are going for ice cream, would you like to come along?” If she says no, then don’t show any disappointment at all, instead, just say, “Okay, see you later. We may decide to drive by and see _______ (whatever)”. The point is that when she sees you getting involved with “life”, and then it makes you a more interesting person and a more attractive person.

Speaking of that--be sure you look really nice at all times. Even if you are wearing a T-shirt and jeans, look so clean and smell so good with great cologne that she will want to eat you up (lol). You would be surprised how well this works! Of course, she won’t tell you, but it will.

I made a very big mistake in consulting with that Psychic a few months ago.
What was scary, was that she described everything in graphic detail about my situation, and wife's feelings and circumstances. She of course intimated that we would get divorced and W would be with OM. I wish that I didn't have that in my head to contend with. It makes this all the more hard.

Grant, sweetie, please, please don’t do that again. Psychics are not from the “right” kind of spirit world. In the first place, anyone could “guess” at the negative outcome of your stitch, but I personally believe that if they are in any type of “contact” with “spirits”…..it is the wrong kind. Besides, like you said, it places all those negative things in your head that now you are having to fight those thoughts all the time and that pulls you down that much more.

You asked about consulting with a DB coach. I have never been able to do that myself, but everyone that has, had nothing but great things to say about it. If I had to decide where to spend my money between choosing an IC or a DB coach, I would definitely choose the DB coach. Now, if you are seeing an IC for your personal problems, that is different, but if you are seeing a C for your M problems…..I don’t have any confidence in them, unless they go along with Michelle’s principles on M. If they are not pro-marriage, then they will tell you about the same thing at that Psychic did. And that is the truth!! I have seen it and heard it told to other couples, and experienced it myself. I have had nothing but bad experiences from unqualified “counselors”. There are some good ones out there, but they are hard to find, and especially those that are pro-marriage.

Well, I have talked your ears off this morning. I need to get ready for work. I will check on you later to see how it is going. Have a good day and try to make yourself some short-term goals this week. When will you be going back home?

I am here whenever you need to talk.

Sandi

[grant]

Hey Sandi, How are you?
I hope you are doing okay. It occured to me, reading through all the posts today, that I had not really asked too much about your present circumstances. Is your sitch the same now as you described it previously? I really hope that your H could realise what he might be missing out on!!

I am once again, humbled by your generousity of spirit towards me and my struggles.
We are so lucky to have the benefit of your experience.

Well, the day kinda started badly......... oooops. I woke up after having one of those weird surreal nightmares. Guess it was just my mind trying to process all the stuff going on in my life at the moment.

I have felt a bit emotional today, but I've been thinking positively and spoke to my kids a few times over the past couple of days. That's always great, and it helps me to focus on them, and to be conscious that any improvements and changes that I make, will make our relationship all the better. That really is a blessing, and I thank God that I have them, and they still love me.

They are wonderful kids (he said in a completely unbiased fashion!), and they really do bring me joy at a time when there is too little joy in my life.

Much of what you say in your post is what I've been focusing on the last while.
I am going to my C regularly now, and I'm really hopeful and optimistic that I'll get something out of it. She's quite clear that this will be about me, more than my M,or R with my wife. Of course, it's all inextricably linked, but I'm encouraged by the idea that this will be for me...... To get to know me again, to find answers and solutions to the issues and difficulties that I have. I think it will be very good for my PMA.

Also, it feels like I'm actually doing something proactive......... something for me. I'm hoping that it will help with my self-esteem too. Something that, as you rightly say, is in short supply for me right now.

You're so so right about me getting away from the "blame" mindset. I must accept my share of responsibility, but no more. I think the C will help with this too.

It's interesting what you were saying about trying to get some kind of connection with the person that I was when I met my W. I've been thinking about that a lot too lately and kinda wondering about what the main differences in my character might be. Of course, time marches on, and change is so slow and imperceptible, particularly over 20 years!! But I think mainly I had a confidence and an optimism that in many ways have been eroded over the past few years. There's bound to be other things too, and I know that C will help to bring that to the fore too.

I realise that this is an important tool in the DB arsenal, although sometimes, that information about yourself is quite hard to gather.

I'm kind of looking at it like it's Counselling/Therapy.

I appreciate your saying about the home situation. I desperately want to be there more, but I think I have to be patient, and a bit more subtle about it. I can't just bulldoze my way in there and set up camp. It might become easier to get to the point where that's a possibility, if I can make my W feel more comfortable and relaxed over a period of time. I realise that patience, consistency and perseverance are the keys here, but I think for the moment, things are probably for the best as they are for now. BTW, I absolutely adore my MIL. That's why I was all for her moving in to my home. My father in law died 3 years ago from cancer, so she was living on her own all that time. It seemed like the right thing to do, and more than that, I actively facilitated it. She (MIL) is wonderful, and though she is worried and upset that my W and I have split, and has intimated her anger to my W about her A,
ultimately she is her daughter, and she knows that she has not been happy.

I understand that. I have not pursued her to pressure my W in any way. That wouldn't be right, and it would not work. However, that relarionship too has become very strained. In fact, although it's quite understandable, pretty much all of my in-laws have distanced themselves from me. I don't blame them. People don't want to be around tension or be in potentially awkward situations. It's human nature.
But I do act "as if" when I', around my MIL. I see no reason to adjust my opinions or feelings for my family that I have loved for 20 years too.


I'm pretty good with people I think. It's part of my job to make people feel comfortable and creative in a work environment, and when I'm not going through turmoil and upset, I think I do have a capacity to be "charming". I think it's a great idea that you suggest I use every opportunity to exercise that muscle.

In truth, when I genuinely reflect on how I am now, I think that over the years I have become a bit of a loner. Not so much because that's the way I prefer it, ( I love social interaction with people, friends family etc.), but because I think I have allowed my circumstances to dictate it. Hence why I think, removed from my home/other life, I am finding it a real strggle to gal etc. But I'm really working to get to the core of these issues.

I haven't broken down or appeared miserable for about a month now. I know that's deeply unattractive, and does not paint me in a good light. Our convos have been light and no R or M talk for 3 weeks now. God, is it only 3 weeks. It feels like 3 months!!

I did lose a rather alarming amount of weight with stress etc, and I certainly didn't need to lose it. W did not like it either,but I have put most of that back on now.

Since getting the DR book, I implemented all of the things about looking the beat I can, bought some new clothes, nice cologne, and went home looking great and acting my socks off.
The first time I did that, the results were really dramatic. It's a long story, but I messed up. She was so receptive, gave me compliments,and the upshot of it was, that after drinking rather too much wine, she invited me into my bed. WTF??

Unfortunately, I jumped in, and in the middle of the night after she had made advances toward me, she appeared to be in some sort of trance. It freaked me out, and it was like she couldn't breathe. When after a bit of a panic, she seemed to snap out of it, she just stared at me, and said "What are you doing, why are you in this bed....... Oh God, what did I do?"

Well, that was all very surreal. I knew we'd had a bit to drink, but she simply denied any knowledge of her asking me to sleep there.

That was a big backslide, because for the next few weeks, she just withdrew further and further.

Anyway, I digress.

Psychics?............ No. Stupid idea. Won't do it again. Thankyou.

I'll think on the the DB coaching thing too. I might just see how C comes along.
I'm conscious of needing to set some more short term goals, but as I don't see W very often, I'm still working on the goal of getting through our weekends in a positive, friendly way for a continued consistent period.

It would be different if I saw her more. The time frame is bound to take longer than for those who are still lucky enough to be around their spouses more frequently.

I don't think realistically I can expect anything too much from her right now, and also as you rightly said, I'll only set myself up for disappointment if I set my expectations too high. Does that make sense? I really hope so.

Sorry to take up some much of your time, it's so lovely of you to think of me!

I am really listening!!!

Thanks again Sandi. x

[sandi2]

Well hello again. We are getting out time in today, aren’t we? (lol) Hope your day was not as stressful as mine has been at work. I would love my job only they put more on me than I am able to do without getting stressed, which I know is not good for me, but I am only one person. Seems to be the story of my work history that every job I’ve ever had, that was the way it would be and the minute I left, they would replace me with three people! Beats all I’ve ever seen.

Anyway about my personal stitch, everything is about the same. I have realized something though and you said something in your post that made me think of this again. When a couple has been married for a long time, we fall into a habit of things…..good or bad. Most of the time we develop lazy or negative patters of behavior, for an example…. speaking a little crabby to the other one, and then they will respond sharply and before you realize it, you are talking very cranky all the time and don’t even realize it. I used to see older people do this and would think to myself that I never wanted to end up like that….but that is about the shape my H and I had gotten in and did not realize how awful we sounded to each other. It all boils down to the fact we stop trying as hard. That is why I said what I did about trying to return to the person we were when our S’s was attracted to us. After many years of M, we act like we could care less if they are attracted or not….in fact, some of us probably hope they aren’t (lol). Anyway, as I told some others, I also think some of it is a simple fact of getting on each other’s nerves. Now, that should not be the case in your stitch since you are away from each other so much, but with some couples, I think a few days apart would do them good! When a couple has been M for many years and are entering a new phase of their life together, there are a new set of adjustments to make. When you stop and think about it, I suppose M never is at a real standstill b/c we are changing whether we realize it or not. Families and couples go through a lot of phases down through life and they have to learn to get through it together or they will either go their separate ways or be miserable together and not have a true R with each other. So, to answer your question about how my M is doing…..there hasn’t been a lot of change and I see my H falling back into some old habits of how he speaks to me in that “crabby” tone, but I have started calling his hand on it instead of keeping it buried inside and staying hurt over it. My goal for this week is going to be to try my best to talk to him in the same tone of voice that I would speak to anyone at work or a guest or anyone other than a husband. (Lol)

BTW, when I was talking about your short-term goals, I did not mean for your M, but for yourself personally. You’ve already told some things that you will do that will be good for your self esteem, such as see that C. That was what I meant. When I set goals, it helps me to work better toward that end. So, keep me accountable, okay?

My H never changed or pretended to change when we had our problems. He said he had done no wrong! It was all me. It always was my fault about everything, but that really took the cake when he would not admit to having any part of the breakdown toward our M. Although, he did seem to try to be considerate and speak kinder to me afterwards. So, I don’t want him slipping now. I can’t blame him about not much change b/c my biggest thing has been to try to heal and get over my own issues where the OM was concerned and resolve to stay in the M with my H. It seems that I should have been able to do that a lot sooner, but as I’ve said, I just have not felt the desire or energy that I need to do what I need to do. I have felt as though I did all the work for 40 years and frankly got tired of being blamed for things I didn’t feel was my fault. I think it just became “handy” to blame me instead of taking certain responsibilities or to “work” at it. So, after my health started to break and I couldn’t fill in the “dead” feelings with other things, I gave up. Once you do that….it is so very hard to find that life again. At least it has been for me. But, I am praying and believing. I think God will help me, but it is taking longer for me than I thought it would. One reason is my fault and that is b/c I know that if I act too over ……how shall I say this?…….too excited about jumping back into things with both feet, that he will get false hopes rising real quickly and I don’t know if I’m totally prepared for that. I know I should want that, but like I said, I don’t have the total desire yet. I’m working on it, but it’s a slow go right now. Remember, I did not chose to stay with my H b/c I wanted to, but b/c I knew it was the “right thing to do” and b/c I could not support myself. So, that is the main reason it has been a slow process of healing.

In talking about how your W reacted to waking up and realizing the two of you had went to bed together and had sex……she may have had some of those feelings that I just described about myself. I’m sure she was disoriented at first, but then when she realized what had happened, her first thoughts were probably that she had gone and messed up by doing something to cause you to believe everything was going to be just lovey-dovey……and she did not want you thinking that for a second. Apparently she was so confused she could not even remember that it was she that came on to you….or maybe she did and that made her feel even worse.

I’m really glad to hear that you and the MIL get along well b/c that would be another big problem if you didn’t. I just hope your W doesn’t try to turn her against you while trying to win her mother over to her side of things. Relatives and friends tend to take sides even though they feel uncomfortable, like you said. I hope you will get back out there and learn to be a “social” person again. I used to be more that way myself, but my H wasn’t. So, after so many years, I just gave up trying to get him to go anywhere or do anything that was “fun”. Then for a while, it was as though the tables had turned, and by then I had gotten where I did not want to go and do as much or be around a lot of people as much as I once did. Strange how that works. But, I think if it was once in your nature to be that way, you can again. Whatever makes you feel good, first of all, and whatever makes you more of an interesting and attractive person, second of all. Those are the traits that draw others to you.

Well, I think I could just talk all day to you, but I realize I need to let you go for now. Hope you can sleep better tonight. Those dreams can be bad and I think it is all b/c of the stress you are under. If you don’t get enough hours of rest, you may have to get a little help for that. But, since you had the experience with your W, maybe you should stay away from wine. (lol).

Talk to you later,
Sandi

[grant]

Hey Sandi,

It was great to catch up on some more about how you're doing.

How long has it been since your H discovered your Online A? Just wondered how long you'd been living woth your current status. I can see how enormously difficult is must be to stay in a M primarily because of religious convictions or financial reasons.

I can really see in how you write about it that it's hard for you to reconcile that to yourself. I would imagine that if you're still holding on some deep resentment about that, it must be difficult to move to a place where you feel able to give a little more to him. I wouldn't blame you if you said "Why should I give any more to him? After all, I was the one who stayed and cut contact with OM, AND, I didn't stay because I really wanted to, more out of obligation and circumstances".

You probably feel like you gave up a lot, and you're not getting enough back. Moreover, you're not even sure if you really want him to give more. Or that's how it kinda reads to me.

Your H must have at some point (presumably after he stopped getting angry and raving about your A) made some sort of effort to give you the attention and validation that you felt you needed. Are you saying that was only that he spoke to you a little kinder? If so, then I know that you will have been looking for more of a reaction than that.

From his POV, I would imagine that he was angry and hurt about the betrayal. And without the kind of info and DB insight, I would imagine like any of the rest of us, must have struggled and got it wrong. Perhaps if, as you say, you were disinclined to "jump back in with both feet", he would read that as a further rejection, and would retreat to his stance of "I'm not changing..... I'm not the one that had the affair". I suppose that could be pretty much "script" for most men, particularly older men.
I'm not condoning or excusing his behaviour in any way, but I know in my case, it was only when I really realised the true extent of my wife's determination to split, that I began to REALLY think about who I was, who I'd become, and what I had lost.
And what was really important to me.

God knows I'm the last person on earth to offer advice, but I do wonder what would have happened if you'd moved out for a couple of months. I suspect that you might say that your H would have dug in even deeper. You might be right. But I imagine that your staying around, even when you felt the way that you did, must have very soon lulled him into that old "comfortably numb" status. With bouts of "crabby" comments and strained conversation. Have you really told him how you feel?

You are the princess of DB!! So you've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know!!
But I'm so grateful you're giving me thoughts and advice.


Just to conclude my little "tale" about the last time I ever slept with my wife..........

To be honest, I just spent most of night looking at her sleeping, just gazing at her and thanking God that I was there with her. Our ML did not go that far, as I began to realise that she somehow just wasn't "there". I know it's of no real consequence, but I believe that she was dreaming about OM, and with the alcohol, and no contact for 4 months, I think it was just an involuntary reaction somehow.

I forgave her, and told her not to worry. She was absolutely horrified and felt so guilty. I did not want her to see how much it had killed me..... So I just said it was okay, and I understood.
I'm left with the feeling that I wished I hadn't got into bed with her..... But I had longed to be near her and to hold her so much. I don't know if anything could have stopped me that night.

Well, I hope to be going home this weekend, and am trying to prepare myself mentally for what I might come up against. That's not to say I'm not thinking positive, just trying to not have any expectations.

Another thought that I had, is that my W said that I never called or communicated enough through the phone. Of course now, I want to call every day, but haven't.

I've been pretty good about not calling since our S in March. But sometimes, although I've asked her if she wants me to call, and she has said maybe once a week, I do wonder whether calling more often would be a 180 for me.
It's the "dont bother doing it now, it's too late" thing.

Of late though we have spoken a bit more often than that. Usually as a result of me texting her something about the boys. They've been good, light convos. Pretty matter of fact I suppose, but not bad nonetheless.

I guess I'll just keep playing by ear and see what happens.

Lovely to hear from you.
Speak soon,

Grant.

[happycamper]

Hi Grant

I am here to encourage you not to give up!! Hope you have had a peaceful day today.

How are the meetings going? Are you still finding them difficult for you? I'm positive that you are still going regularly, as you have such great self-awareness and you know how beneficial they are for you, but I just wanted to say keep going anyway.

How are you feeling about your anniversary? Have you managed to think of an appropriate way to mark it, either for yourself or for your W?

Reading back through some of your posts I have been amazed at how you stay so hopeful and I think that that frame of mind must really help your DB efforts. Keep going, keep wearing the make-up! LOL

I apologise for this short and utterly disjointed post, my brain has been frazzled by H this past week. If there is any way you could glance at my thread I would really, really appreciate it. You have a unique perspective on my situation...

Keep working it!

HC

[grant]

Thanks HC. It's much appreciated. I posted a little aside on your thread. I can see why you might be a little "frazzled" right now. I think though, what's happening with you is perhaps a sign of better things ahead. I do hope so.

Still going to meetings, and although it stirs up great emotions of sorrow, guilt, and remorse, there is great comfort in sharing and listening to other people. I guess in much the same way that we take solace here. Thanks for the encouragement. It's "progress not perfection".

Guess I have tried to not think about the future too much........ Christmas, Anniversaries, etc. It's all a bit too painful, and it kinda goes against the idea of trying to keep in all in the day. But we're only human, and after 20 years of loving somebody (however imperfectly), it's so difficult to not have those emotions, hurt and fear.

I will either do nothing, or email or text her something along the lines of "I'm thinking of you today". That's hard because I nearly always take those opportunities to tell how how much she means to me and how much I love her.

Don't suppose I'd get away with "I miss you".

I am glad that you think my posts are hopeful. I read through some of them the other day, just to look back at my timeline and all that had happened this past few months. Perhaps sometimes I post what I think I need to hear, maybe repeating DB principals and reaching out for spiritual guidance and strength. Guess I do share my deepest worries and fears, but I am so conscious of the fact that to have some kind of PMA at least some of the time, can pay dividends.

In truth, I struggle daily, hourly even. Although it's been 6 months now, in some ways I feel like I've only just begun. My biggest fear is that I somehow don't do enough, or leave something undone. Nothing is more important to me than trying to change my life, to make amends, and to have the best relationship that I possibly can with the people in my life. It's a constant battle, but one that I need to fight, until all is exhausted.

Finally perhaps, I am becoming more self-aware. Maybe too much. LOL.

Grant

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Grant,

I saw where, on another thread, you asked me to stop by and check out your sitch. I've spent the last 30 minutes reading every word of THIS thread, although none of the prior ones, if any. I gotta say, between you and Sandi (whom I love -- HI SANDI!!! ), you two sure can generate some WORDS!!!!!

Long posts, but I did read them all, and your pain is self-evident, and I'm sorry you're having to go thru this. My wife had an affair last summer, and I too am a classic "Nice Guy" and romantic, and we had sex issues (and still do), so I could relate to much of your situation.

Now that I'm up to speed, how can I help you? I'll warn you ahead of time, my advice is NOT the standard stuff, and I'm not going to blow smoke up your butt just to make you feel better. But if you want my perspective, I'll certainly give it to you, and will try to help as best I can.

Peace,

Puppy

[grant]

Hi PDT.

Firstly, let me say thankyou for taking the time to read through all of the thread.
I'm so grateful to you for doing that, and I'm sorry it's a bit verbose.

Guess I use this forum to vent, journal etc.

I have read about your sitch, and the many posts in which you have given your experience, thoughts and advice.

To answer your question about help.....

I have some difficulty reconciling myself to the fact that my W is in another relationship, and that we are still married. You will know from my posts, that I have been recently trying to follow a path of friendship to help counteract some of the negative feelings that she has toward me.

Although I'm trying to think positively, I have had the most dramatic reactions from her in the past when I have in some way, confronted her about her behaviour.

I said a few months ago that I was not happy to give her the "time and space" tthat she needed, if she was going to fill that time with another R.

I was very non confrontational but strong then.

But of course, she's continued along that path, and I'm still giving her "time and space" et al, and sometimes feel like I'm just giving her A my okay in some way.

I have misgivings that I am simply enabling her to live her life like nothing has changed, except the fact that she has no responsibilty or commitment to me as a partner or husband. She is in our house, with our kids, and gets all her needs from her A.

I guess I felt that I had no choice but to accept the way things were, because I felt pretty much entirely responsible for the fact she had ended our marriage.(Rightly or wrongly). So I didn't feel I had any right to ask her to do or not do anything.

The only real boundary that I have tried to set, is that she doesn't talk to me about OM.

Am I being a wuss here? Do I feel like a doormat?........ a bit.

I just wonder if I'm missing an important part of the DB thing, about showing strength and dignity.

I am trying to be patient and follow the DB thing as much as I can, but your take on things is slightly different, and I would respect your opinion on anything I have posted. BTW, no "smoke blowing" needed!! I think I'm a realist. lol

Thanks so much for taking the time.

Grant

[The Wifey]

I promise to try and read back over your thread. Just know that I am in as much pain as you are, but I know the light is showing at the end of the tunnel. We can do this. You can do this.