{{{{Donna}}}} No, dear, you're not psychotic. You're hurting. It's okay. It was a bad night, but this is another day and it's behind you now.
I know that look--the anger and disgust. It haunts you, I know. But you know the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference and apathy. He still needs to hurt you and be angry to justify his actions.
He didn't pick her because she's a better person than you. He picked her because HE's a much WORSE person than you, and he's going through a teenage phase of rebellion and following his hormones. His whole family is with you. You are a far better person than she is, honey--you have his children, his parents, you didn't bust up a family, and you have some profound inner strength. Eventually he will grow up, because he can't live in a fantasy forever. You are the mother of his children--he will eventually recognize how important that is.
My prayers are with you today. Put last night behind you and begin again, one foot in front of the other. One day at a time. All those cliche's--but there's some real truth behind them. Blessings, dear.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
You are NOT going to give up. You've already been through the worst of it but you fought your way back and you have found your strength.
So you had a "setback" we all do. Boy I certainly had my share. Nobody here is going to fault you for that. What I do know is that this woman is in noway better than you. She was your friend. What kind of friend does this? You know projection is a funny thing. It keeps us from dealing with what we have done to cause this kind of pain to the people we love. Your ex said what he did because he was projecting all of the things he hates about himself. You're not crazy, far from it. I remember onetime I was having a talk with my H after he left and I started to cry. He said, "look at you. You need to get some help". I believed that, for a while, but I was the one who could still feel emotion. That is way more normal than hardening ones heart and feeling nothing. Would you want to live like that? Wouldn't that be an awful thing for your children? There is NOTHING wrong with you except for the fact that you love your ex and you're mourning the death of your family as it was. We all know how that feels.
The good thing and the silver lining in all of this is that everytime they show us this side of them, it makes us stronger & helps us to detach.
Donna, he has to live with what he's done. Maybe, at least for right now, he can hide behind this relationship and justify it as his happiness. At some point he'll realize that he's still empty and no other person will ever be enough if he doesn't believe he is emough!
No one needs to give me advice on this. I know that what I did was wrong, counter-productive, self-abusive, etc. Most of me knows this, but the heart.....I have to learn to take control of my heart.
I just wish I was numb.
No advice, just support. {{{{{hugs Donna}}}}} I don't think you really want to be numb. Numb is no way to live. The x's make themselves numb becaue they can't deal with their issues or their choices. You have a deep heart and that makes you the woman you are, and there are many who appreciate your lack of numbness.
"You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf." Jon Kabat-Zinn
Sorry to hear about the tough night. All your effort is NOT wiped away in one night. That is like someone on a diet who has lost 50 pounds saying that all their effort was wiped away by a piece of cake. You slipped. It is OK. In the big scheme of things, it is not going to make any difference about anything.
Can you call your sponsor today?
Put your healing energy in your positive self/growth/unenmeshment basket. Don't make your worldview dependent on X having a crappy future or being unhappy with GF. Neither may come to pass. And you are better than that. You don't need to build a life grounded on a dream of someone else's dysfunction or misery.
You are certainly not psychotic. But you and I both know that your behavior last night was not about X, or being respectful or loving toward him. It was not even about him as a person. It was about you and very old unmet needs. So focus on you and take care of you.
You have come very very far. And you are still moving forward. So what, so the horse bucked hard. You didn't fall off, you're still riding, even if your tush is a bit sore.
I know the pattern here. I see it, I know why I am feeling this way. He just knows exactly what to say to rip me apart, and it just gets worse and worse. Then, he throws it in my face that I won't go to the co-parenting counseling, that he is ready when I am ready. I was the one who insisted on it originally. But I am afraid that any contact I have with him will just be more bashing.
He has torn me apart on being a friend, a wife, a mother, and now as a person in general. I feel like sh!t. I feel like a failure. Unworthy all over again.
I called the counselor on Sunday and again last night. I emailed her, as well. I am hoping that I can see her today, in addition to my standing appt tomorrow. I don't want to get stuck here again.
She wants me to be able to get my defenses up faster.
I still can't get it in my head that I have to defend myself from him. He was my protector, my safety, my person to be vulnerable with. I keep opening up my throat to him...and I just look at him, asking why? Why do this to me? to us? to our family and kids? I love you...how could you be this way? I don't understand.
But he is this way. And it doesn't matter why. Except that it does still matter, and I don't know how to go about changing that. Other than everything that I have done. There isn't anything else I can throw at this.
And yes, I do have longer and longer runs of strength, of good times. But the lows can be so low...they don't last as long, though. I am slowly giving up, I think.
This is an email and answer that I sent my bff down the street last night, too, after listening to x.
Quote:
Dear Denise:
I spoke with Chuck last night.
Among a lot of other things, he told me that you hated me last year while you were dealing with your mother's death. That you couldn't stand the sight of me. That I wasn't there for you, and was self-centered and selfish in my own pain.
He said I should read the emails back and forth between you and Monika, how she was the one true friend who was there for you during that whole time.
I am so sorry if you felt that way. I never meant to diminish the pain you were going through; I had lived it myself, and over a much longer span (so I didn't have the shock on top of it, like you had to also face). I was there as much as I could have been; I guess it wasn't enough. And I am really sorry for that.
I wish I could see stuff like this happening; I am trying my best, and I often fall much shorter than what other's need from me. Then I can't even tell that I am screwing up unless someone comes right out and tells me.
I am sorry that I put so much of this mess of my life and divorce on you, that I leaned so heavily and wasn't there for you in return. I can hear the "ugh" now in my head on those times I tried to call you, or when Chuck had to ask you to check on me. I've become a pain in the ass to someone else who I never wanted to hurt.
I won't bother you with this anymore. I'm so sorry that I wasn't a better friend to you. You and Leticia were my best friends; I'll have to write to her and ask her to be upfront with me about any ways I've let her down or screwed up that relationship, too.
Chuck said that I would never be as close to you as he is, and I don't know what to think, anymore.
He said that Monika is a much better person than I could ever hope to be. That I am not a good person, or a nice person. I am so sorry; I am trying so hard to be better, to learn from my mistakes. I'm beginning to think that, no matter how hard I try, no matter what therapy, book, medicine, I am just stuck being this person who hurts the people she loves. I'm not worth it.
I'll leave you alone.
Know that I tried to love you as best as I was capable of, which doesn't seem like enough.
Donna
Quote:
Good morning, I just wanted to first say that I am so sorry I didn't get back to you last night. I had quite a bit of unexpected company that stayed till after 9. First of all, I never hated you. I was going through a terrible time (still am) about losing my mother. But I also understood what a hard time you were going through. I never expected you to help me because I knew how much pain you were in. The only thing that bothered me was that I felt now matter what I did, I never was able to help you. You are and have always been a great friend to me. I want nothing more than for you to find happiness in your life with the people that you love. You are not a failure and have come such a long way this past year. What you went through was extreme pain that I couldn't imagine. I have enough people in my life to turn to when I need a shoulder or an ear. I don't know about any e-mails that Monika and I have exchanged. It was probably during the most difficult time for me. (which I don't really remember.) As far as my friendship with you and Chuck, I started off being friends with both of you and I want to remain being friends with both of you, even with all the changes. I don't want to be in the middle and I think you both try hard not to put me there. You don't need to stay away from me, but what I really want from our friendship is that if we spend a few hours talking, I wish you would take something away when you leave. I feel like I give you all my best advice to find out it all went out the window. I want you to get over this relationship and concentrate on you and the kids. I think you can do it and I am here for you. We all need to find the "new normal" because so much has changed. I want nothing more than for you and Chuck to find happiness. I've had so many interruptions this morning that I hope my spelling and punctuation wasn't to bad. Hope you're better today, I'll check in with you.
As I drove to work today, I just wanted to withdraw into a little ball. No one wants to deal with me like this anymore. They are tired of hearing it. x said, oh, woe is me--you just want everyone to feel sorry for poor Donna. I really don't--I was trying to use my support network. But I've been so open about all of this, trying to deal with everything; maybe too much. I have to act as if with all of them, too. I don't know if it is safe for me to talk to anyone else about this, anymore. No one understands why I am still upset after "all this time." Yes, he has been out of the house since July 07. But the divorce was final on this June. And he is moving in with her already, looks like before the end of the year, for sure.
They shake their heads, say that there is nothing anyone can do. That they will get theirs and be miserable. That they deserve each other. That it is only a matter of time when one or the other will cheat. That second marriages, especially started off in such deceit, are bound to fail.
But I don't want him to hurt, either, so this is no solace for me. I don't want my kids to hurt, either.
ugh. My head is just tired.
I did make it to work, both days. I managed to keep a lid on things, work with my students and student teacher, hang a bulletin board. I think I am coming off as just a bit tired, which I am. I have the kids tonight. I should make a nice dinner for them. I want to shrink my world to just the three of us for a while. Let everyone else, including in-laws, be.
No 2x4 on what happened with H because you already know all that... but I can't just let the email exchange with your friend go (sorry).
I was so very sad to read that email to your friend. Your H is spewing all kinds of hateful things at you that you KNOW are not true... and you're believing him both about you AND about your friend, who's been wonderful to you through all this. Writing her off and sending a "goodbye" letter based on lies your H told you??
Quote:
I really don't--I was trying to use my support network.
Which is GOOD and exactly what you should do.
Quote:
I don't know if it is safe for me to talk to anyone else about this, anymore. No one understands why I am still upset after "all this time."
It's not safe for you to talk TO YOUR H about this.
Your friend didn't say or do ANYTHING that should make it "not safe" to talk to her. In fact she said this:
Quote:
I want you to get over this relationship and concentrate on you and the kids. I think you can do it and I am here for you. We all need to find the "new normal" because so much has changed.
She's there for you. She WANTS to be there for you. She wants to help find the "new normal." And she's telling you to do exactly what you KNOW you need to do which is move past the R/M and focus on you and the kids. It's what everyone tells you - including yourself. And we'll keep telling you, and doing what we can to help you do that.
Oldtimer's post to you was wonderful (as usual, OT!). Especially this:
Quote:
Put your healing energy in your positive self/growth/unenmeshment basket. Don't make your worldview dependent on X having a crappy future or being unhappy with GF. Neither may come to pass. And you are better than that. You don't need to build a life grounded on a dream of someone else's dysfunction or misery.
You are certainly not psychotic. But you and I both know that your behavior last night was not about X, or being respectful or loving toward him. It was not even about him as a person. It was about you and very old unmet needs. So focus on you and take care of you.
I think this answers your confusion so well Donna - when you post this:
Quote:
They shake their heads, say that there is nothing anyone can do. That they will get theirs and be miserable. That they deserve each other. That it is only a matter of time when one or the other will cheat. That second marriages, especially started off in such deceit, are bound to fail.
But I don't want him to hurt, either, so this is no solace for me. I don't want my kids to hurt, either.
EXACTLY. You don't want to focus or build your future on ANYONE being miserable, just as OT says.
There's nothing anyone can do to change your H or his choices... but they can do a lot to support you, if you let them.
Next time someone says something about them "getting theirs" - maybe you can reply "I hope not, I'd really like H to find happiness too." Stop those conversations as soon as possible and redirect towards a positive, happy future.
SO glad there is AlAnon tonight, and great idea making a nice dinner for you and the kids.
((((Donna)))))
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
(Nikki, I cross-posted. You are right. I wasn't trying to write this friend off, so much as stop bothering her if she really didn't want to hear it anymore. As much as I love her, she avoids conflict a lot and plays both sides of an argument...I was afraid that I didn't know where I stand with her).
I went back and re-read all that everyone wrote; thank you all so much. It does help.
The shift of thinking is there...I just hate how fragile my self-esteem actually is.
This is going to sound stupid, but I remember as a kid, all an adult had to do to bring me to tears is look at me with "that look." Especially mom. I always tried so hard. And this freakin' feels like that.
I can't stand it. It CAN NOT MATTER what he thinks or does. God, I am such a broken record at this point.
How long does it take to undo damage in childhood, so it doesn't keep rearing its ugly head? Why am I so attached to the memory of what no longer exists?
How can he seem to be exactly the same with everyone else, except me?
I have to say F*ck this, F*ck him. And mean it. I just can't put myself in any position where he can get to my self-esteem. God, this sucks.
I'm not the one who had an affair.....why do I feel like sh!t?
You feel like sh!t because your ex's actions don't make sense to you. They don't to me either.
As for friends telling you to get over it "after all this time", well, let's just see how they react when their own marriages are flushed down the toilet. It's so easy for the smug marrieds (thank you Bridget Jones) to patronize and give advice. I have to laugh when one of them winds up in the same boat. All of a sudden, they finally "get it".
I have actually had people apologize to me for their stellar "advice" after they have been dumped. They never thought it would happen to them.
My H left Nov 07, and promptly bought a house with OW March 08. Four short months after leaving me. AND WE ARE SILL MARRIED!!
So I know how heartbroken you are. I have been beside myself about it and there's nothing I can do either. Plus, I know it will be even worse when we are finally D'd, and that is coming up in the next month or so.
My H moved in with a single mom too, and the only thing that gives me any solace at all is knowing that being a step-parent isn't easy. And the bitch your ex is with HAS FOUR KIDS??!! Heh.....
If I were you, I'd go as pitch black as you can. I realize it's more difficult because you have kids. So, hang in there sweetie. You and I will be ok. Eventually.
