You've only been trying to improve your relationship for 2-3 months now: your first post here is dated 6/20/08. It's only been the summer, so far -- changing things takes TIME, with many backslides into old behavior. It's two steps forward, 1.9 steps back sometimes.
I know where you are coming from. I still spend the occasional night lying awake, frustrated, and downstairs on the couch where my brooding, thrashing about, and sighing won't keep her awake. This was *especially* true during the first few months of our SSM recovery. Yes, I had her on board, but NO, changes don't miraculously occur overnight. But after each night on that couch (which she hated as well), we picked ourselves up and tried again, and again, and again, and slowly got better over time.
So, expect the occasional sleepless night, punch a pillow, come vent here, give it 24 hours or so....and then get back in the game and keep working to make YOURSELF better. You can't change her, you can't force her to change -- all you can do is improve yourself and SHOW HER the changes you are willing to make for both of your benefits.
Hang in there,
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Shelby - thanks so much for your kind thoughts, I still have you and your H in my prayers.
B - I just picked the worst possible summer to "wake up" and start my recovery. Between my mom's illness and now being laid off it hasn't been my best summer. Mom has been in and out of the hospital again and still is not walking on her own. I think she will be in a bed the rest of her life. She's in her 80's. The job outlook is not a rosy picture at all.
I feel like I am being tested and I'm failing the test. God I'm trying very hard to have a good attitude. The old me would be drunk right now, A+ for not drinking at least.
I need to learn not to push it when she is not responding. I did that once a while back where I just left the bedroom so I would not sigh all night. The next night we did ML, I'm a slow learner.
Thanks for looking out for me B.
Hey success! I made tacos tonight with a little Q&A help and they were even eatable.
I got another hint from W. While I was cooking last night, she mentioned it would be great if "someone" (uh, that would be me) would just shoo her out of the kitchen and do all of the clean-up. This sounds like what you do for your wife Baggy. I can tell I won't be a gourmet cook so this will be another act of service to show my support for her. Hopefully it will help make up for my poor cooking skills too.
I never realized recovering my M would be such hard work. Going into it you think, "Ah this will be easy, make a few changes here and there, get W on board and poof... perfect marriage." We all know it doesn't work that way and it is constant work to even maintain it once you get there. I have to keep reminding myself of this so I won't get discouraged whenever there is a misstep or crisis to overcome.
I want to do this for myself and my family and most of all for her. She deserves to have all that I can give to her.
I would echo Shelby's thoughts, but I think it is ok to point out the issues periodically, just not when you are at your most frustrated and emotional level. I think that is a great balancing act of the DB method in that, on one hand you aren't supposed to have R talks, on the other hand, how is your spouse supposed to know what is in your head? Plus, for me, if I don't point out those issues once in a while, it turns into frustration, which magically evolves into anger and resentment.
On your job, while your sitch is hugely crappy to have to deal with, you need to keep positive and focused on finding your next, better opportunity. I run a company and interview LOTS of people. Two major factors I look for are people who are goal oriented and those who will bring a positive "energy" to our team. The second one is tough when you have been laid off and the last thing you want to do is be negative AT ALL, even when pushed (and the good ones know how to push). Even when they seem to want you to go negative, don't. Jack Welch once said he never hires anyone that has a dark cloud over their head and I have always remembered that.
In addition, this really is an opportunity. I know it is easy for me to say, but I know a lot of people who have gone through this and ended up in a better job that they were happier at. If you focus on that as a goal, and stay positive, it will help you not just in your job search, but in dealing with this in your life.
Good luck my man. We are pulling for you.
CB
Me; 42, W; 43 M; 16 yrs S12, D9
3/13 - "I want to move to XYZ City (four hours away) and it might be without you, not sure" 5/13 - "Not sure I meant that"
I love Elvis TOO~ You are doing great.... shoo her out { of the kitchen } and then make her dessert and feed it to her????????? MMMMMM~
, ~Ali ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Some quotes for you....
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking. It is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. I Corinthians 13:4-8
Chaucer:
For there is one thing I can safely say: that those bound by love must obey each other if they are to keep company long. Love will not be constrained by mastery; when mastery comes, the God of love at once beats his wings, and farewell -- he is gone. Love is a thing as free as any spirit; women naturally desire liberty, and not to be constrained like slaves; and so do men, if I shall tell the truth.
Carl Jung:
Where love rules, there is no will to power; and where power predominates, there love is lacking. The one is the shadow of the other.
Elizabeth Barret Browning:
Whoso loves, believes the impossible.
Erich Fromm:
Infantile love follows the principle: "I love because I am loved." Mature love follows the principle: "I am loved because I love." Immature love says: "I love you because I need you." Mature love says: "I need you because I love you."
It is a touch balancing act to try to fit in where to R-talk and not. PM talks about this as the only way to grow. You have to leave the inner comfort zone and venture out to the crucible for growth to occur. One person may lead the other out there and if they don't want to follow (and grow) it can be pretty explosive. (I'll give more detail tomorrow on what happened Tuesday afternoon, you can't put out a fire with gasoline.)
Thanks for the encouragement on the job front. I do really want to make this an opportunity to do something that I really love doing vs. just get another job. That's either build/work on/customize tube amplifiers (guitar/bass amps) or start a small recording studio.
Ali -
GREAT IDEA! I think this is a great idea for our anniversary dinner. Hmmmm, now all I need is a nice dessert to fix for her. It will have chocolate in it anyway.
You always have so many great quotes and sometimes they are Ali quotes. I have a little file of quotes that just keeps growing bigger all the time. I especially like I Corinthians 13:4-8.
Tuesday afternoon I asked if she had read SSM yet and it turned into a huge argument. I didn't know that one simple question would touch such a sensitive nerve (actually I did know it and that's why I was hesitant to open that sore up again). So many things were brought up; I'll try to remember them all.
She has not finished reading SSM and wished she had burned that damned book. She told me I needed to read my part and to stop making such a big deal out of sex. (I would read it if I knew where she had hidden it.) She also has not ordered my copy of it yet.
Do you think there is some middle-aged woman out there waiting for you that wants sex 3 times a week? (I did NOT answer this one.)
Anything she does is never good enough. (Not true, I loved the way that we ML on Labor Day.)
Do you want permission to go out and get whores? (No, I want you, don't you understand that?)
You can just go live at your mother's house if it is so bad here.
"I feel like a failure to you and that is why you don't want me."
I talked about Labor Day ML vs. Sunday-chore-sex. Labor Day ML was great, this is what I want with you, did you not like it too? Sunday-chore-sex was like, why bother? I waited a week and then you don't want me? If you didn't want to then why do it at all? I show you I love you by "doing it" even when I don't want to. "I want you to want "it", not feel like you have to just "do it" because I want to.
Things really got heated and we even cursed at each other, which is very rare. I did not want to leave it like that (had to go do some things soon) so I tried to apologize. At first she would not let me. We finally did make up and while hugging told each other sorry for the F-word exchange. "I want to be a good husband to you." You are a good husband. I do appreciate all the things you are doing now to help me. I said, "I have been stupid for not doing those things all along."
I can't believe how infuriated she gets when this subject is breached. She still thinks this is about sex only. It's about passion and her wanting me. I know I want her but only if she wants me, really wants me. It's up to her to decide now and I told her so.
I know we said other things too and I just can't remember it all now.
I can't believe how infuriated she gets when this subject is breached. She still thinks this is about sex only. It's about passion and her wanting me.
Ok Senor Cinco get ready for another 2x4 from another Alicia...
[eyes rolling and winking at you too!] This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you.... { insert eyes rolling again }
Ok... you need to believe to her it is only about sex.
1. you had many affairs, which said Passion wasn't important getting your rocks off was. Can't have true Passion or connection with a stranger.
2. a. when you tell her she still isn't doing x, y or z , she will be let off the hook if you seek it [ sex ] elsewhere. BTDT!~! b. also when you say you are still doing this wrong all she hears is you , you and you , and remembers that you used to say she was *worthless* by having the affairs and ow that you 'want ' her she is somehow supposed to lay all that down and put it on complete ignore and f~ck your brains out.
3. to her IMO~ it is and always will be about sex... UNTIL SHE FORGIVES YOU AND HER. I dunno if she has forgiven you , or forgiven herself for staying with you? { look at how a lot of people here think I am a nut job for staying and standing for my M when my hubby does x, y or z?} and the resentment is stronger than the sexual drive when it takes over. {WHAT DO YOU THINK? } 4. you have just only begun to change and will she ever ? I dunno. But a few months of you playing house doesn't erase the { years?] of you playing MR MACHO Man who can play around and then come home to his WIFEY poo sleeping at home and waiting for him 5. Do you think she has healed? Do you think she is over you being a Casanova?
{ I say I am healed and then it takes very little for me to curl up into a ball and want to give up and ask GOD again , why me and why do I love this Man who cannot love me?}
OK I will put my Bat away now....
And smooth down my feathers... OH yeah and that hair that got out of place while I was saying.... Ahem. Love ya Cinco , you remind me of my Hubby and I have learned so much from you. so~ These are all my OPINIONS~ AND SHE MAY NOT FEEL LIKE THIS AT ALL. but~ I just know how I felt when my hubby would ask me to raise the bar. Pretty hurt and very pissed. Why didn't he come to me or try harder instead of laying with a whore? Why did he have to break my spirit to get off? I was ignorant to how important the connection we didn't have anymore was and so was he. He tried to fix the pain by going elsewhere. A vicious f~cking cycle.
,
