But when their brains are drunk on hormones, endorphins and everything else that goes with an affair, reasoning with them about what's right isn't going to be very effective I'm afraid. Because they really know what they're doing is wrong, they are just too euphoric to care. So while we're pandering, we're also employing strategies that may be more effective. Maybe.
Hoosier, I agree. It's the most effective strategy, for the most part. I'm just pointing out, that indeed, it's simply a strategy to get their attention in the hope that if they are attracted back, they will come to some form of realization, apology and re-invigoration of their conscience. They need their sanity back.
But their sanity depends on you remaining attractive. Or as we might say, you will have really changed.
And then, of course, you need to keep the home fires burning, forever.
If you look at the forums and chapter of the book entitled, "keeping the changes going" indicate, right or wrong, we will be on the performance treadmill for the rest of our marriage. Yes, marriage is work, but in essence what DB is saying is that it's not held together by a covenant or commitment, but a life-long, mutually satisfying game of "What have you done for me lately?"
I'm honestly wrestling with that at the moment.
I'm deeply hurt and have come to question the fundamental character and goodness of my wife. It's been 2.5 years. So what if I can GAL and attract her back? For how long? Do I want what I see?
There...you have my early morning soul-searching.
Theoden
Sounds painful. I can definitely see where you're coming from.
I've come to see MLC (and probably WAW syndrome) as a form of mental illness. I guess that's how I'm coping with it 3 1/2 months out. It may well be mental illness with some contributions by the enemy. Still kinda working out the details in my head, finding where things fit in a way that makes sense for me and helps me heal. Not that everyone needs to see it the same way--it's just where I am.
And if H ever does come back, those will definitely be the issues I'll be struggling with. How to remain attractive enough to keep his attention, will I ever be able to relax with him and not be on that treadmill, does unconditional love really exist (not in this world), how to keep the home fires burning if I am sick or injured, how do I not be resentful because I need to keep working obsessively for the great privilege of having him in my life. Because at this point I know, without a doubt, that if I don't provide what he needs, when he needs it, even if I don't know he's hurting without it--he could leave again. I just don't see that as a marriage, but more as emotional blackmail I'll have to deal with the rest of my life. If he comes back.
I also know that H has had no difficulty putting his happiness before the needs of anyone else, and feeling entitled to do so. There seems to be no conscience involved, no connecting with prior values on his part. Any appealing to that aspect of things seems absolutely irrelevant to him. Nor does discarding his values seem inconsistent with other goals he has for his life, although it seems obvious to almost everyone else. So what is "right" and "good" is just not absolute in any way for him in this frame of mind, it's simply relative to what feels good to him.
So--for me, if it's not a mental illness or some form of demonic possession that can be "reversed," this is definitely not a person I'd want anything to do with. I'm not sure if this is helpful for anyone else. It just helps me to work it out in writing.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
I think we all have. It was started drifting a few posts ago. It's amazing how we can start a thread and it turn into something totally different. It's nice to have a place to come and share our feelings no matter what they are.
Hugs, Yoyo
Life's challenges are not supposed to paralyze you, they're supposed to help you discover who you are. -- Bernice Johnson Reagon
Okay, I just watched Meet Bill, which was mentioned earlier in this thread. And i have to ask - WHAT is the younger generation's obsession with body hair removal??????
I guess I'm showing my age (52) when I say I think it's CREEPY when the main character, as part of his self-improvement, shaves his meager chest hair and his forearm hair! Who wants to sleep with a man with stubble all over???? Isn't beard stubble bad enough?
And watching Harold and Kumar (the new one) there's a "bottomless party" scene where the women all have Brazilian "landing strip" wax jobs. I just don't get how that is supposed to be sexy. It looks so weird to me.
Guess I'm just an old hippie. On my planet, people are supposed to have a little body hair.
I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with it, at least at this time, for I am 56 years old and I have no children, but not by my own design. Sometimes, God deals us the hand that others cannot handle, I guess. Thank you for writing back.
Anyway, I just found out you are an attorney, and I'm having a hard time of it right now. Do you happen to be on FB? If so, I have some questions for you in the other universe, if you feel like it?
Demonic possession, MLC, Affair OR shady character?
Well...I think the "MLC/Affair-fog/They'll come to their senses" explanation is a very necessary coping mechanism in the early stages of the crisis. There is much truth to it. In many cases patience and "getting a life" tied to the hope they will snap out of it is effective. It kept me going for about 15 months. Then I started getting really pissed off and began to realize, perhaps, that my wife was never going to snap out of it. Her MLC was, possibly, a permanent transformation. Then I started getting bitter, spending time cursing her under my breath, thinking, perhaps, that this was who my wife REALLY was, and that given the right circumstances, her real charater has shown itself. The alien was not the person in front of me...no, in fact, that was the REAL person under the mark. The nice person I was married to for all these years was, perhaps, a "persona" contructed to cope with a strict religious upbringing she was raised with. When the situation got tough, the illusion unravelled and the TRUE person came out.
She hasn't veered away from her new-age, self-actualizing, "centered", "clear", "I do whatever makes me feel good" phase. It's like a MLC that deepens and remains permanent.
She keeps telling me "this is who I really am, this is the real me." I'm beginning to believe her.
So...where does that leave me? I don't think I can be married to someone who doesn't actually believe in marriage and whose ethics, particularly regarding fidelity, are subject to the whims of her latest meditation session. This is not a covenant.
You are clearly on the cusp of a new phase. How long since your W became this strange new person?
What I wrote was more journaling for me, working things out in my head. I didn't mean to contribute to a sense of hopelessness. Or maybe that's an appropriate place to be, I don't know. It does make one wonder why we bother.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
When the situation got tough, the illusion unravelled and the TRUE person came out.
She hasn't veered away from her new-age, self-actualizing, "centered", "clear", "I do whatever makes me feel good" phase. It's like a MLC that deepens and remains permanent.
She keeps telling me "this is who I really am, this is the real me." I'm beginning to believe her.
So...where does that leave me? I don't think I can be married to someone who doesn't actually believe in marriage and whose ethics, particularly regarding fidelity, are subject to the whims of her latest meditation session. This is not a covenant.
I dunno, Hoosier, but I think we can do better.
--Theoden
Not Hoosier (love that name!) but just nosy. I think that's just one of our biggest questions is when do we stop DBing or move on or whatever. My H was a relatively nice, normal guy for about 20 years and then for the past 2 years (during EA and PA) has morphed into a stranger, not nice guy. If I knew he was going to stay like that forever, it would make things easy in that I would never think things would work out with this new version of H.
I just think could a person really be pretending for 20 years they are nice & normal & good morals & good dad? Doesn't seem likely. So I do think maybe H is having MLC (at 42) and def. the affair hormones, maybe guilt are coming to play. I do think yeah, if the affair ended and his MLC got better or whatever, yeah he could change. But of course he may never change and continue to live a selfish lifestyle. Or he could change back more to like his original self (that first 20 years) and still not be interested in marriage with me.
For me, I am dbing for myself and kids at this point. I'm planning on H never coming back and just going on with life. If a miracle ever occurred and H decided to work on our R, I could/would worry about it then. But everybody has to make their own choices for what they want to do. But yeah, your W may not change so maybe at some point you will need to decide if you're happy with the "current" version? I don't think we should ever rush into our decisions, though, it seems like my H and other WAS do that and doesn't seem prudent... Karen
I think your oberservation may have some merit in your case.
In mine, my wife was raised in a super-strict religious upbringing, which I thought she made peace with. Turns out I was wrong. We both were married in the church and raised our children in a Christian, but less strict environment. Turns out that her affair co-incided with her decision to leave the church/faith. For her, it's a whole life direction, discovering "who she really is". It's related to anger at her father (a minister), men in general, and certainly the issues in our marriage.
It doesn't bother me at all that you don't agree. I'm not in your shoes and you are not in mine so neither of us fully understands how the other thinks or feels. I've come to learn that some things cannot be known until they are experienced.
No, I'm not a family law attorney. I did study some law, but it was environmental law. I now work in education.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Karen