Ground Hog Day WAW #18

[Puppy Dog Tails]

hey Phil...if you are referring to me...I am not a he!!!

reading doesn't an expert make

living it everyday does

the Founder of our faith taught us all some very important lessons about judging others, about putting others down to raise ourselves up, about listening with an open mind and heart.

Jesus didn't get people to listen to His message by telling them they are ignorant or by stomping away and throwing tantrums, telling them they could never talk to Him again.

Jesus drew the masses because He made them feel worthy. He made them feel love. His followers weren't the high muckity mucks. They were the down trodden, they were the cast offs. He showed them His glory and they were willing to see it.

Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooosier came to you. Quiet and humble. Asking you to please hear with an open heart. AmyC has come to you, humbled, asking you to hear. I have come to you, humbled, asking you to listen (which is a big deal and I had to pray about it which might not matter to you but it does to me)

We have been met with insults, barbs and hard-heartedness. We keep doing it because of our beliefs Phil. We do it to try to show you God's love.

And yet I'm afraid we are wasting our time, when there are others both in need and more receptive to the message.

Puppy

[hoosiermama]

Of course you're right. I've given a lot of thought to why I keep trying. And while it doesn't necessarily feel good to keep banging our heads against the wall, I keep trying because--
I just have this lingering fear about a disaster looming in the future for this family if things continue as they have been; I have serious concerns about the children because they are exposed to all the behavior that we all have tried so hard to shield our own kids from and which all the professionals tell us causes permanent damage; there's probably more hope in this situation than in the vast majority of others, and with a breakthrough in insight it could so turn around; when Catholicism is witnessed in such a judgemental and weapon-like manner it has a way of making us all look like Pharisees, when in fact it's far more about love than condemnation, more about broad understanding than isolated facts.

Every now and then we get a flash of something better, a hint of grace, a brief window opening on something like a sense of humor; in psych class I learned this is called intermittent reinforcement, and it really hooks us to try to eliciting that response.

[LostPhil]

Puppy, If asked you to return, but I'm afraid I'm going to ask you to not post to me anymore.

Fig, wrong, AmyC did not come to me humbled and quiet. She came to me like a tornado, in a whirlwind heat flash. Like she was the leader of the free alien world and had all the answers.

And Jesus had a little termper. Get behind me Satan. Throwing tables over to deliver a message. He said to his own Mother. Woman why does this concern me. He gave the apostles the business when they couldn't even stay awake for one hour while he prayed. My God my God my have you forsaken me.

And your right none of that has any relevance to what we are doing.

Hoosier it is passive aggressive behavior. I have repeated ask you not to post to me anymore, because you would rather be confrontational about things we even agree on. Perhaps that is why you are here. It's passive aggressive because I asked you not to post to me, because all you were doing was upsetting me. But you continue to do it. You continue to poke and prod, back me into a corner like a sick wet rat. Then I jump out, and then I get called on it for behavior problem.

I have plenty on my plate, and keeping up with talking to you people shouldn't even be on that plate.

We can talk this stuff to death. I felt like I have. There hasn't been any change and it just seems like a giant circle. How much longer can I put up with her. I'm going to have to deal with her for a very long time.

Fig you think that was namecalling, that wasn't name calling. You are a weiner to the core. You probally even wear a bow tie.

Hoosier, take your psychobabble and show it ok. What the experts think cause permanent damage. Then you are implying that the kids are being abused. It's dysfunctional. When they are with me it's stable. Show me one family that isn't dysfunctional. We created this society of wanting, got to have. Both parents working. I live in a house that is too big.

I don't use Catholism as a weapon.

Do you ever think that psyche is an animal of the enemy. Freud was an idiot and a drug user. To me it a type of new religion based on secular BS.

Whatever Hoosier, just go away you are bogging me down.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Puppy, If asked you to return, but I'm afraid I'm going to ask you to not post to me anymore.

Phil,

I must have missed that, but I have honored your request, and will continue to do so unless I am led to post to you. On that, I will not change, sorry.

I will leave you with this word of caution: I would strongly encourage you to make damned sure that your wife NEVER finds out about this site, or can access it. Because the sum total of your posts, while maybe therapeutic to you as "venting" and as a journal, would in all likelihood cause you to lose custody of your children for psychiatric reasons.

Seriously.

Puppy

[hoosiermama]

Phil, you're blaming me for all kinds of things I haven't done--in fact, that I have tried very hard not to do. I will own up to my failings, but I won't admit to attitudes and responses that you are projecting onto me in order to vilify me. Not out of pride, but because I just won't enable that. Because it isn't helpful to you.

I am not being confrontational; I am trying to help you understand. I am not being passive-aggressive--on the contrary, I have been very direct. I haven't tried to upset you; I have tried, on occasion, to get your attention because you have engaged in some harmful behavior. I cannot take blame for your defensiveness to the help I offered, because I have tried my hardest to speak to you in a way you could hear me, and I did it with good will. I am not poking or prodding here; I have done that in the past in order to lift up for you the behaviors that are counterproductive and harmful. Not to back you in the corner like a sick wet rat. I am very sorry you feel that way, but if I told you that you were a sad and sorry victim and doing everything right that would be do nothing more than bolster your ego, not help you to help your family. At some point you will find it helpful to understand that your perceptions and defensiveness are choices you make. And the way you choose to respond out of that defensiveness results in "problem behavior." Here and in your life. This isn't psychobabble, it is what I have learned from a lifetime of hard lessons. It isn't from Freud or Jung or anyone else. I don't know what you mean by taking this psychobabble and showing it's okay; what I'm saying is pretty much what others have said, so most seem to think it's okay because we see it the same way.

Yes, you do have plenty on your plate. But none of us has demanded that you be here or that you wrestle with us, or even that you keep up with talking to us or talk this to death. Phil, it's your decision to be here.

When you use your Catholicism to judge, condemn, and belittle others whose faith and relationship with God has a different denominational name--that is using it as a weapon. It is using the Church's name in vain to put yourself above others, to strike at their hearts. Please don't do that with our church, Phil. Because it pushes people away, and we're really not supposed to do that.

Faith/religion and psychology are not enemies, Phil. Jesus was a great psychologist--he understood what people needed, and how to speak to them. It helps us understand each other. I am sorry that you have apparently encountered people who have seemed to make psychology a new religion. But you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater, and condemning some tools of understanding that could be very helpful in dealing with your wife. You have talked about her having OCD, ADD, bipolar--that's psychology. You're kind of taking it out of context and picking and choosing what you use and what you think is bs, but calling it all bs.

I am sorry you feel bogged down. Like Puppy, sometimes I do feel led to post to you. You just have such a tendency to react without thinking through. Phil, with just a little insight and understanding you can turn your situation around.

[phoenyx]

weiner with a bow tie
lmao

phil settle down, as fank said, don't argue, if someone says something you don't like(right or wrong) ignore them.

[LostPhil]

Hoosier, you are a manipulator of words and facts. I have not belittled anyone of a different denomination or used the Church as a weapon. You are certainly passive aggressive everythinng that spews from your finger tips contains the manipulation.

No, you are not sorry you feel that way. I'm certainly not. I can see why your heading for a divorce. You don't know when to give up. Then you twist turn, manipulate everything out of context. I have asked you to go away. No go away.

Puppy, really you are implying things you have no evidence of. That is what you do. The things you say create monsters in my head. How would this site as anonymous as it is endanger me to losing custody of my children. Don't you think it is the other way around.

Even with her today she is driving me nuts. Son is with me. Doesn't want to be with her. We had birthday parties to go to. I asked her if there was a wrapping paper or did she take it all. She started spazzing out on me.

I said stop giving me a hard time about everything good bye.

She calls later she was already an hour late for D's party. She ask and berades me wondering if I'm watching my son. I said he is on the mini golf course on hole seven. Well you better watch him better someone could take him. She said D was being bad. I said let me talk to her. I asked D what was up. She said, Mommy was taking too long I kept telling her to get ready now we are late, and I just want to go to the party.
Wife gets back on. She wants to know what time mass is at a certain Church and she wants to know if son wants to go with her. She says she will call back later.

She calls again. I tell her how son's friend treats him like crap. They are in first grade. The girl said to my son and everyone at the party. I am opening up my husbands gift first. She grabs him at the party and makes him sit with her. She made him take a certain number for pin the tale on the donkey. She made him be on all her teams. I was telling thw wife this and my wife said, I know she is so domineering towards him I hate it. She treats him like crap.

I said that is exactly how you treat me. She said real funny Phil. I said it is so true. She said she is coming to get son to be with her at the other party. He said he doesn't want to go. Well tell him not to cry when he isn't with me and never see's me. Then she says, they you will say Phil I never want to be with the kids. I said I never said that. I just said I didn't think it was right when you dumped your kids at your mothers on your day off, when they should have just stayed with me. I have priority. I said are you going to do that tonight. Are you going to dump them down there, not call me, and make me wonder where my children are. I said I would never do that to you. She said well maybe I will. I said good luck. Talk to you later. She starts again. I'm coming to get him. I said do you want me to drop him off I'm driving. She said no, I'll pick him up because she says she needs to put clothes in the dryer and get a jacket its chilly today.

I hang up. Son says I want to stay with you Daddy. So I call her back. He said he doesn't want to be with you. She said you tell him not to cry he doesn't get to spend time with me on my day off.

I'm not telling him that.

It's all fruitless. She must be phasing on a manic stage or something. She was mean. Hour later she was nice. hour later she was mean.

During the party I went down in the pit, walked away and cried a little. Song on the radio triggered it.

I'm feeling better now...

[phoenyx]

stupidhead radio

instead of saying he doesn't want to be with you, say he wants to stay with me. says the same thing, but paints you positive instead of her negative. she will be less defensive and less likely to mess with you

all i got, relax and hang in there.

[LostPhil]

Good point Phoenyx about just saying he wants to stay with me, doesn't put her on the ropes or cause injustice that her son doesn't want to be with her... Well will see what skullduggery she has planned tonight. Frankly I don't not care what or who she does, because in many ways I'm better off with out her. The constant verbal abuse. The constant being treated like crap.

You know it was funny. I woman came to the party to pick up her kids. As soon as she walked in she did a double take of herself making sure everything on her person looked ok. Then she started playing with her hair. I would like to think I was making her a bit nervous. It seemed like she wanted to interact with me, but then I realised who her kid was. He was the most undisciplined misbehaved kid at the party. I also noticed she wasn't wearing a ring.

Tells me two things. Her child is misbehaved because he comes from a broken family. She isn't with anybody because there was no ring, and since the children had bad behavior it is most likely she was single.

So was she flirting, looking, or whatever. I didn't bother to try and talk to her. I'm not looking for another one anyways. I guess it is just nice to know that maybe someone else noticed you.

I'm trying to hang in there. I just don't see any progress until we get closer to the end of her one year lease. Now if she totally enjoys this one year off of marriage due to bad behavior then I guess I'll be done. I guess I have to try and make interactions with her as positive as possible.

I think it is good I removed those evil woman words from my vocabulary. Because believe me I want to say them to her almost every single conversation.

I was hoping things would improve that she would want to be around me. It does seem like she is a little better starting off with the conversations, but then it turns into some fight picking mess.

[AmyC]

Fig, wrong, AmyC did not come to me humbled and quiet. She came to me like a tornado, in a whirlwind heat flash. Like she was the leader of the free alien world and had all the answers.

Hmmm...did you read the post I've copied below?

I wrote it last night.

I tried one last time.

How foolish of me.

I think I just play the hard a$$ boss too much. I think I did the same thing in the marriage. Me Boss, you woman, you listen. I give you good life. So STFU! I'm not a whoremonger. I never cheated. I liked my suds. She despised it.

She constantly disrespects me. I don't think she ever really treated me as her husband. She just wanted to control me and make me her slave, and I wasn't going to have it.

So would it be reasonable to say that you generally felt undervalued and unappreciated in the marriage? I can see how that can happen. Hell, I lived it. I unknowingly (at the time) did a very similar thing to my own husband back in the day.

But do you remember when she said you never used to help her bring in the groceries from the car and that you were never home with her and the kids (paraphrasing)? She does give you clues to how SHE felt, too, Phil.

Instead of letting the spirit of offense attach itself to you imagine for a minute that for whatever reason, things like that, over time, made her feel uncared for and unappreciated. And imagine that the times you'd drink and maybe even say nasty things to her...made her feel unloved, unappreciated and eventually...resentful.

Resentful enough to leave.

How many years do you suppose one can live that way and not begin to believe it's true, that they are unloved, uncared for and unappreciated?

I'm not saying I'm painting the picture of your marraige.
But you're dropping clues here to us and she has dropped countless clues to you.

So I am suggesting that instead of focusing on how badly you felt (even though your feelings were legitimate), be the bigger person and look deeper and see how you both harmed each other.

If you get to a place where you can do that, and you can be completely honest with yourself about it, this battle of yours will take it's first turn towards victory.




Edited by AmyC (Today at 01:30 AM)