I don't know where to start. I'm kinda exhausted. Yesterday was drama filled. Hubby came over in the morning and we finished watching the movie from the other night. Nothing too special. I was a little annoyed because my dad was home from work sick and whenever my parents are around my hubby is not affectionate towards me and it is making me a little crazy. That is one of the most important things to me and when he won't give it to me I get cranky. . .fast. So there was a little tension between us but we had lunch and went off to our appointment. We talked a little about the issue in the car and hubby said that he feels weird at my parents house because he feels like they might be wondering why we are together but not together and all sorts of stuff like that. I guess he might feel a little guilty. I understand in a way but I told him I need affection and that it is not awkward and that they understand what is going on with us and want us both to be happy. Anyways. . .it was a little drama but not too bad.
Counseling went well for the most part. A couple of tense moments. I don't know. I'm not overly happy with how it went because we are still in the "deciding" phase. As in, deciding whether or not to stay married. I just feel like we should be past that now. It's been 5 sessions and we are still deciding? WTH? I want this decided now! I guess I am just getting waaay impatient but doesn't it seem like I have a right, given how well things have been going between us? I guess not. . .
Afterwards in the car is when the fireworks started (and not the good kind) we got into it about this whole "get back together" issue and it went downhill fast. I couldn't stop myself. I just kept talking and talking and talking. He got angry and we had a pretty bad argument. He was saying things like "we're good as friends" "why can't we just be friends" "things are good but only because it is once a week" blah blah blah.
I'm so sick of hearing how we are good friends. He even thinks we could get divorced and remain friends. He thinks that the only reason things are working right now is because we only see each other once a week or so and that we can't be married because then we will just argue all the time like before. He also started going on about how we should stop having sex because it is complicating things. How he guessed it was decided that it was over because we were arguing. Like over a month of good times can be erased because of one argument? Who does that?!
It was bad and when we got home he went to his car to leave. I know I should have just let him go but I couldn't. I didn't want things to end that way. So I followed him and we argued some more. I tried to calm down but I was so hurt by what he was saying. I thought we were doing so well and here he is thinking it is because we make good friends not because we are getting back together again. We even argued about names because I have been calling him by his pet name but he has not been calling me by mine and now I am supposed to stop because "it is too hard for him to deal with" whatever that means. Apparently because we are not "married" he can't be known as "bunny" because things are not that way anymore.
I don't know if any of this is making sense. I'm typing at like 30 mph and not rereading this. Sorry I just need to vent a little.
Sigh.
Ok. . .eventually we called a "cease fire" and he decided to stay. There are still a crapload of issues to resolve but I just wanted to say "to hell with this" and have a good night together rather than have him drive off in a tizzy and not hear from him for a few weeks. I know I should have just let him go. I don't know why I wasn't strong enough to just turn around and walk away.
So we went to the store to get stuff to make dinner and got a cake for dessert and went back to my parents house to eat. We made some margaritas and were fine. I was really tired though and went to go lay down in my room and he came in a little while later and we messed around and ended up ML so that at least is one good thing. Normally on a day that we argue he would not be willing to have sex for a couple of days. He's not a believer in make up sex at all. So I think that is a good sign.
Afterwards we talked a little and fell asleep. He ended up staying the whole night even though it was not planned. His phone buzzed several times but he did not get up to leave. It was so nice to sleep with him again. Even though we were on my tiny bed. And waking up with him holding me was the best feeling I have had in a long, long time. So that was sweet.
We had the house to ourselves this morning so we stayed in bed for awhile and ML again. Just lounged around and had breakfast. He left at 10:30 because he needed to go home to shower and change before going to work later this afternoon. We didn't make plans to get together again but he was going to call me when he got his schedual which is supposed to be today. So we will see.
I don't know what score to give the day as a whole. There were a lot of good moments but that huge argument really threw us both. He said it reminded him of the way things used to be and the reason things can't work out for us. I know that I am not supposed to believe what he says and a lot of the stuff he said seemed like classic WAS stuff. I know I let my impatience get the best of me I just felt like we were getting sooo close to pulling it back together again and now here we are and I feel like we are still where we started in a way.
Right now I wish I could just give it up and let go. It would sure hurt a lot less.
I'm not any smarter than you. It sounds to me like you know what to do it's in the execution that you're having problems. Well, I understand that too. Hang in there and don't give up.
The one arguement will fade over time. So don't loose hope. He's on board still and willing to look in the right direction. That's more than many of us have. Your resolution seemed to go well too. Give yourself a game plan for next time. Hang in there.
Me:34 W:31 d's 5 & 10 M: 5 years, T: 8, Bomb1 3/8/08,#2:3/28/08 Asked 4 D:4/19/08, discovered PA 5/8/08,W moved out 6/30/08 W pregnant by OM: 2/17/08
I am feeling a little better now. I think I just needed to vent and get it out there. I guess I got ahead of myself and those darned expectations started creeping in again. I know where I made my mistakes and I have learned from them. I hope things will go better next time. At least I know that things went well last night and this morning. He was very sweet as he left. I guess I just see a lot of things that need to be resolved in order for this to be put back together again and sometimes I doubt it can ever be fixed. So much of it remains on him, he has a lot of growing up to do and I wish I could hurry him along but he is going to have to make that decision on his own. I just hope I can hang in there until he does.
We are going to continue counseling and see what happens there. I just hope we can start digging in and doing some real problem solving (like how to have a dissagreement without it turning into a fight) I think part of the reason I am in such a hurry to move back in together is simply because I want to live on my own again. My parents and I get along and everything but it just feels a little like going backwards. I need to refocus my attention on my own life and really start turning things around for myself and let everything with my hubby play itself out. If we end up together I will be a better person and we will have a better relationship and if we end up divorcing at least I will know that I did everything I could and that I would be ready to learn from the past and move into a new relationship a little wiser.
Sorry that this was frustrating for you, but I don't think that it's as bad as you might have thought it was. It's only been 2 months, right?
I don't think your H decided that it was over because of 1 argument. The WAS says mean things, and focuses only on the negatives. So one bad moment can outweigh all of the positives, unfortunately. This is why it is so important to be extra vigilant in the things we say and do. I've fallen prey to the need to push R talks, and it has not gotten me what I wanted. Basically the WAS will either say what they think you want to hear (which may not actually be what he/she is feeling), or will say something very hurtful on account of feeling pressured and confused. Neither of these outcomes are particularly positive. One gives you false expectations, while the other false despair. I have seen both of these with my H, and hopefully now will learn to shut up as a result!
I think that maybe you are not yet at the point where you can share your needs, and ask for the things that you want from the R. I know it's unfair, but you've mentioned 2 things that strike me here. 1, your H is young. He may not really understand yet what it means to focus on you, because he needs to understand how to focus on himself. This doesn't mean that won't change, or shouldn't change, but it might be better for the time being to encourage him to focus on what he needs. 2, it's only been 2 months. I know that there is that "rule of thumb" about 1 month for every year of marriage, but honestly I'm not sure where that came from. I do understand that the longer the relationship, the more time it will take to repair, but each situation is different, so it might be better in your case to see this as still the beginning, or at least the intermediate stages rather than being at the point of piecing. This might help you not to get your hopes up for a quick resolution.
I think the ML at the end was positive. I don't think you scared him off, maybe just made him a bit skittish. He's still going to counseling with you. He's still coming over. I really see a load of positives here. If for the next couple of weeks you don't backslide, things may improve dramatically. Can you keep R talk for the counseling sessions only?
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
Thanks for your post. I know I jumped the gun and that is why things spun out of control. It did end well and we talked last night and things seem fine now. I think the day just showed me a lot of negative things to our relationship, things that I forgot or chose to ignore because things were going so well for a little while there.
One thing that is really bothering me is how immature he is and how much he has to grow up if this is ever going to work. Just the way he acts and how he can treat me sometimes screams of immaturity and while he has admitted to this in counseling he seems to think he has a choice to make. Whether to act mature or immature and I am not sure what is holding him back from that choice. He is a 22 year old boy and I think that is a huge issue for us because even though I am 22 now too, we seem light years away sometimes when it comes to levels of maturity and responsibility.
I want to talk a little about the counseling session because there are a lot of things bugging me right now and I need to get more of it out of my system now before I talk to my husband this afternoon.
We gave our lists of the things that we need and the things that we want from a marriage relationship. The goal was to see if we could provide those things to one another as that would be an indication of whether or not we could make this thing work. I will post my list in a seperate post after this one to save on space. After going over our lists our counselor summed it up by saying that right now the most important thing to my husband is freedom and the most important thing to me is security. Our new assignment is to try and figure out how those two needs can coexist and be fulfilled simultaneously. Which to me sounds impossible. How can I feel secure when he is out doing his "freedom" thing? And vice versa.
His list talked about needed space and alone time, wanting someone with an independent spirit (meaning I can't be too clingy), that he wants a "low maintenence" relationship, etc. There were only like 5 things but there was nothing like "I want my wife to greet me at the door when I come home from work" or "I want frequent sex with my wife." You know, things that were more practical, things I could focus on doing to make him happy. So this frustrates me because it makes me feel like unless I let him go run around with his buddies I could not be a good wife to him. All the things he wants and need are things that he would have guarenteed as a single man. So that is not very encouraging to me right now. Again with the immaturity.
After talking the whole thing over with my mom and then with my best friend last night I am just really seeing that I am in the indecision category, just like him. I don't feel like he is good enough for me and that I would be better off with someone who is older and actually wants a relationship like a marriage. Someone who would make me a priority in their life not an afterthought. I love my husband more than life but at the same time I am becomming so disenchanted with the reality of things between us. I need him to figure himself out so that he can wholeheartedly choose me. Otherwise I will always feel like the last thing on his mind.
So this brings me to our conversation last night. I asked him if he thought we should go to counseling on our own instead of as a couple. He said it might be better but asked me why I felt that way. I told him that right now I am lost and confused and that I don't think going to counseling together is helping because we are on two different pages and until we figure out where our marriage is headed it might be best to go by ourselves. I am just so messed up and I need help pulling it together, for myself. He said "Well then we should do that" and I said ok. So that is the plan for right now. We only have one joint session left for free and then we would have to start paying and right now I am not willing (or able truth be told) to throw a couple hundred dollars into this until we both want it. Whereas we can get 6 individual sessions each covered for free and that might actually help us faster than us going together. Then if/when we decide to go back together it would be at a point where we could really dig in and figure this thing out.
I feel good about this decision. I am not ready to walk away from the relationship but give me another month or two and if he doesn't start to change I might be at the end of my rope with this whole damn thing. Hopefully something will click in his brain before I get to the point of no return.
Sorry that this post is not the most positive or cheerful but it is all I have to offer at this point.
Sense of security Affection Attentiveness Open communication Honesty Church attendence Responsible/makes trust worthy choices Able to solve problems without arguing Supportive/listens without judgement Treats me as a priority: not an inconvenience or obligation Frequent sex Financial stability
Wants (negotiables):
Common interests Affirmation of positives in the relationship "I love you" said daily Calls to check in or check on Help around the house Connection to my family Romantic gestures Shows interest in my interests/thoughts/day Ability to forgive and to ask for forgiveness
The other part of my list is boundaries I would like my husband to follow.
1. No one on one time with other women. 2. Set limits on time spent with friends 3. Limited drinking when out with friends 4. No flirting with other women when out with buddies (even "innocent" seeming) 5. Limit time in bars 6. No clubs (like music and dancing and drinking kind of clubs, I'm not worried about strip clubs because my husband has never been interested in those even when single)
Anyways that was the list I took to the session of the things I need and want from my marriage. So either my husband can fulfill it or not. . .we shall see.
Sorry that this post is not the most positive or cheerful but it is all I have to offer at this point.
In fact I actually think you sound really strong and clear in this post, like you are completely thinking of your own needs, as you should be doing. I didn't realize that the two of you were so young (I don't mean any offense by that!). Actually knowing this makes you seem even more amazing and resolute. I am 33 and can barely keep it together. I absolutely don't think I would have had the emotional maturity at 22 that you do to be able to deal with this kind of situation, and fight for my marriage.
To be honest, I don't think that independent spirit and stability have to be in opposition though. I think it makes complete sense that a 22 year old man would want to feel independent. Is there not a way that he can feel independent while still being married to you? I hate to play the age card here, but this IS something that he will likely outgrow. If you are willing to wait around and let him get this out of his system, he is likely to want to spend less and less time out. Being independent does not have to mean getting drunk and going to strip clubs. Maybe it just means feeling like he can go out with th guys and that you will not get upset, watching sports or playing video games. This was a HUGE deal to H even though he only went out about once per month, and my inability to let him do things may have ruined a very good thing. I mean we are in our mid 30s and I was still trying to control him. I just didn't realize this.
I would also say that the more you give someone something, the less they will actually want it, in all likelihood. Even H said on our last call that "the more alone time he gets, the less he needs." Now he did not say this to me, but he said it to our coach.
I think you sound really mature in terms of making the decision to go ahead with the individual sessions. This may also be a bit of a 180, like what I tried to do with my H, even though you are completely genuine. It might make him think a bit more that if YOU are not going to fight for the marriage, like you always have been, then maybe he will need to, or at the very least maybe he needs to take a closer look at things.
You really do sound strong and together. I am sorry you're not feeling completely positive, but I think you are doing really well.
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
I am on a personal rollarcoaster right now. Up and then down two minutes later.
I just had a conversation with my husband about setting up our next session (because I just got my work schedual) and we talked about things a little clearer than last night (because it was a phone call and not by text message) and he agreed with everything I said and was really supportive. I basically just told him that I deserve to be chased wholeheartedly and that until he decides what he wants there is no way for him to chase me that way. He is the type of guy who is pretty laid back and passive until he finds something he really wants and then he will go after it 100% and I can't even remember the last time I felt like he was 100% into me. So I said that until that was the case I am not interested in getting things back together. We are still going to "date" and work on our relationship but that until we both want the marriage to work we are not going to go to counseling together. We might go to the session together week after next because it is our last "couples" session. He said he would think about whether or not he wants to go.
I do feel good about the decision and I think that focusing more and more on myself is what I need to do. However after the conversation I was starting to tear up a little because I just feel like I am going to lose him at the end of this. I know I should not think that way but it just kind of settled into my chest and I could not help it. I am going to pray for God's will to be done and that the next month or two will yield a lot of personal growth in both of us and that we can grow together.
I am going to hang in there and see this through no matter which direction the road ends up going.
Thanks ITH for the encouraging words. I always appreciate your advice.
Not a huge update here. We talked a little yesterday/this morning about all this army stuff he is working through. He had an appt yesterday and another one this morning to try and get things sorted out. He got some bad news and I can tell he is getting frustrated. I wish he would just open up and let me in so that I can help him through this, even just as a shoulder to lean on in tough times. He always internalizes his stress and then it comes around to bite him in the butt later because after he does this for long enough he gets overwhelmed and shuts down and goes into this depressed state. I wish he would learn to express his stress in a healthy way. It would help him personally in addition to helping us as a couple.
One thing that kinda perked my ears was talking about going to training. He wants to switch jobs within the army but it will require him going away for training. Anywhere from 3-9 months. Depending on what career he chooses to pursue. Back when we lived together I was supportive of him going back to "school" because it could help us in the long run as far as money goes. At first the plan was for me to stay here at home while he was gone and just go out to visit him a couple of times but after the seperation and talking to our counselor about how the 6 months we spent apart last year shifted things in our marriage I changed my mind and told him that if we get back together and he goes away again that I want to go with him. That was probably a month ago when we first started talking again.
That's a lot of backstory but the main reason I bring it up is because I am really sad now that there is a chance that he might be leaving for training in the next few months, at least by the beginning of December, and that he would go without me. This whole seperation thing is hard enough when he is only an hour away. I can't imagine doing this if he moves across the country. It hurts even more because I was supposed to go too.
I will be supportive no matter what happens and I know there are a lot of steps that need to be made before he will be cleared to go but talking about it again brought back to mind a lot of the stresses and concerns that go along with the military lifestyle.
And waking up with him holding me was the best feeling I have had in a long, long time. So that was sweet.