For the Guy with Kids and a WW 11

[kat727]

I think you do focus on her reaction too much but you are getting better thinking about you. If you are anything like me, I didn't like the person I became due to this situation. I was a stranger to myself as well. No wonder H ran away.

Right now anyway, I have too much going on to be thinking about him and his issues. They really don't take up much of my time. I am focusing on me and what I need to do to get my life to where I want it. The kids naturally take a big amount of time too. If you remember my goals, one of them was to sit down with them to draw out a plan for what we want our lives to be.

You are a sweet, loving man. Now go out and find that man you were before this happened or better yet the man you always aspired to be.

hugs, kat

[whatdidido]

lis is right. Good advice.

Answers to your questions:

You asked: How close did you and H stay? I mean what kind of relationship did you maintain with him and what kind of relationship did he try to keep with you. ------

When H and I separated and he moved to the basement, things had gotten really bad. I stopped talking to him, only in anger. He was sad/mopey and "the victim" and I hated it!!!!! It mad me even madder. Everything he did pissed me off. It didn't matter if it was nice or not, it made me angry. Once I saw the first OM consistently, OM put some pressure on me and I decided that the best thing would be for H to move out. In the back of my mind I thought that if he truly loved me he would do SOMETHING....the OM was doing everything, while he did nothing (he didn't know there was another man). He moved out (which, he shouldn't have done because it just made it easier for me to see the OM). DUring this separation time, he lived about 30 min away. Everything he did he did solely for our son. He came to our house after work, spent time with son, then when we put son to bed, he went "to work" (which is what we told son, but he really went to his place). Also, during this time, off and on he would reach out to me, but never really follow through if I cut him off. The first OM pressured to take the next step, but I knew I didn't want to leave my marriage so I wouldn't follow through and OM couldn't take it and left. Then, second OM came into picture. Much of the same things happened, but this time my H went to see a counselor to work on his issues (lack of showing emotion/feeling, etc.). This made me take notice. He started saying things to me that showed he had been thinking of how to work on himself. I remember telling him that I will be "shutting him down" and "pushing him away" like crazy because it is my new defense mechanism from years of him pushing me away. He said he knew and it didn't matter. He continued. I started to back away from OM. H started doing small changes, all 180s.....showing feeling, saying feelings, etc. I knew I had to end it with OM because I thought there was a chance we could work it out now. I also told myself if H would ask about there being OM, I would tell him. Soon after, he asked on the phone, and I told him. I told him to come home and we were up all night crying and talking. He was mad, I was ashamed and sorry. I would get mad, and he would be so sorry, too. He didn't stop his changes. I told him how hard it is for me and what I needed. I remember telling him to send me texts and emails often because it is going to be really hard. I explained it was like an addiction. He didn't disappoint me. He was "on it". He still is. This man loves me more than I ever imagined.

You asked what kind of relationship did I WANT to maintain with him------

WHen he first moved to the basement I wanted him to fight for me. Do something. Show something. Anything. He did nothing. I would tell him what I needed and wanted and he did nothing. When I started seeing OM I wanted him to act like nothing was wrong. I wanted him to be happy for me doing whatever I wanted to do (go out, leave when he got home, not come home on the weekends, etc.)and I didn't want him to get mad at me or cause any waves. The pathetic look made me steamed. If he tried to get mad I came right back at him with fury. I was getting deep into the fog. I didn't want to face what I waas doing. When he moved out, I wanted to live my life and he live his without him bugging me but also to not leave the marriage. Pretty much cake eating, but also waiting for him to do SOMETHING maybe. If he would have come to me with Retrovaille info and took initiative at this point I would have agreed to it. In my mind I felt like he could offer me nothing but more pain. When he did ignore me, though, I didn't like that. It made me more interested in what he was doing. If he didn't tell me where he was going that made me take notice, too.

OK I could probably go on some more...but does that pretty much answer your questions?

[hopeful4her]

If you are anything like me, I didn't like the person I became due to this situation. I was a stranger to myself as well. No wonder H ran away.

kat, apparantly, we are a lot alike. It's like the harder I tried, the worse I became to her. How sad is that to realize?

Thank you for the kind words.

dub, I know why you take special interest in me. You've said it before. You see yourself in my wife. The anger she puts forth to me when I do not deserve it, is exactly the same as you did.

What were you telling your H after the separation concerning the marriage? Surely you weren't telling him how you couldn't leave the marriage?


The confusing part to me is showing my wife my feelings, because I do not, at this point. I show and give her nothing.

He started saying things to me that showed he had been thinking of how to work on himself. I remember telling him that I will be "shutting him down" and "pushing him away" like crazy because it is my new defense mechanism from years of him pushing me away. He said he knew and it didn't matter. He continued. I started to back away from OM. H started doing small changes, all 180s.....showing feeling, saying feelings, etc.

That means ya'll had to be talking. At least, he was still trying to talk to you. I bet at some point, you were trying to be friends, too. True? While seeing the OM.

Your not wanting to leave the marriage... I just don't see it in my wife. Maybe you see something I don't.

That was part of where my questioning was going.

Again, confusion for me. I don't want to be her friend while she is 'with' him, but I still want her to know that I'm still here. At the same time, finding myself and doing things that I enjoy and that make me happy. What a crazy line to walk. It's like they are two different directions with two different goals. At least to me. In order to move past this, I let the anger develop and do what I want and be with who I want, and not a thought towards her. And I feel good about myself.

Any other way, I do with thoughts of her. Like it's mechanisms that kick in for me. 'If this is what you want, then keep doing this. If that is what you want, then keep doing that.' Maybe at some point, they come together somehow.

BTW, I had lunch with Y on Friday. She started emailing me late morning and we emailed each other a lot. Some business,but mostly stupid stuff. Ended up having a late lunch together. Today, more emails about our weekend and other business stuff. I make her laugh. She makes me laugh. She asked if I went home with one of the girls Friday. I asked her if she thought I was a player or something. I told her I was a good boy. I told her "Besides, I'm saving myself." I don't think I've seen her laugh so much. Even if it was virtual. She will probably be at my office all day tomorrow.

I think that we are just going to be really good friends.

Maybe give something to my wife just every once in a while? We've only been separated for a month. Something like the email I sent? I think it showed I still care for her and am concerned still. At the same time, I didn't give her too much, I don't think. Maybe a conversation once in a while? But always with the thought that I'm still trying or being hopeful somehow. Overtly. Throw in a "I still don't want to divorce".

Because I don't.

The flip side is me getting along with out her. Doing things on my own. I still have the anger. The anger leads me in a different direction. The pain. The hurt. I have found ways to soothe it. Make it feel better.

Even if it's only in my own mind.

I just need time.

I think you do focus on her reaction too much but you are getting better thinking about you.

I feel it.

And I AM getting better at thinking about me. But she is still right there. No matter how good I feel or what I do, she is still in the back of my thoughts.

I think she always will.

BTW, my bank branch was robbed last Tuesday, right? Saturday, another location was robbed. Today, another of our locations was robbed. Things are a little on edge at work.

I think I'm talking crazy. I feel like I'm all over the place tonight. I'm tired again. Now I can't sleep well at night again. Friday night was my fault. Sat. and Sunday was maybe 6 hours each. Last night, I just could not sleep. Maybe got about 4 hours. I'm sleepy. Kept dozing off on the way home.

Gonna try now.

'night all. Thanks for keeping up with all my bullsh*t. I know I sound nuts to ya'll. One day feeling this way. Another day feeling that way. Another day, feeling both ways at the same time. It makes ME dizzy. I can imagine how YA'LL feel about it.

Bless all of you.

[whatdidido]

AFter the separation we didnt' talk much unless I initiated the conversation. When/if we talked it was because either I had a bad day with OM or I thought I was leaving OM or OM was pressuring me to leave H. Then, it would be the same talk....I don't think I ever loved you, I'm unhappy, what are we going to do about our son, etc. We even went over what would happen if we divorced and the whole logistics of it all. He told me he would make sure I was ok and give me the house, whatever I needed. He was never a jerk. Went over the same things over and over. But, these "talks" were few and far between. There was no grand gesture on my H's part, so I don't know if that would have done anything. His grand gesture was seeking counseling I guess. He could have done a couple things: Brought something to the table like Retrouvaille that gave us hope, or gotten pissed and mad and didn't treat me like the queen I didn't deserve. Either way would have done something. BUt, just being the nice guy didn't do anything. His little things and the way he was made it harder for me to continue the lies, but I still continued them. If the lies were out in the open, and he had known about the affairs, and it was public that he was living elsewhere, I could see how I would just "go with it". Everyone knows anyway I would think. But, thank God I didn't. I would have regretted this decision enormously. If I knew then that I could have hope with my husband and still have my family I would have stopped my crap immediately because that is what I wanted, at the time I just didn't see it being possible.

I do see your wife not wanting to leave the marriage, but I see her as having no hope to make it a happy one. Now, that she is public with her move, and openly with this OM,....I don't know. THat's why I pushed you to give her the retro info. Your chance is now....as she lives this new life she will more than likely keep it, even if she has regrets. My guess anyway. Especially if she knows you are seeing others now.

You seeing y is a big mistake. You saying you think you'll be good friends is bogus. You are flirting with her and making her laugh, etc. You have only been separated (not divorced) for a month and you are already flirting with others and going out for lunch together. You feel stronger and more confident....because YOU ARE GETTING YOUR EGO STROKED BY OTHER WOMEN. That is not what I meant by finding what makes you happy. Big mistake h4h. You know this. DOn't think I will ever support you spending time with other women while married. It is NEVER ok. There is NEVER a reason for it to be ok. YOu can't defend yourself on this one. It is just plain wrong.

[Sugar and Spice]

I know I sound nuts to ya'll. One day feeling this way. Another day feeling that way. Another day, feeling both ways at the same time. It makes ME dizzy. I can imagine how YA'LL feel about it.
Bless all of you.

((((H4H)))) I don't think your nuts at all. Maybe that just means I am too...LOL! I so get how you are feeling. Its the roller coaster and we are somewhere towards the front I think. Have a great day and keep your goal in mind. Even if Y is just a "friend" when we are feeling vulnerable things can often go places we never meant for them too. Done preachin' to you now.

(((hugs)))

[hopeful4her]

dub,

I've got obvious issues with the ladies, which will be a non issue now. I can control that. I WILL control that. That IS all it is. Ego stroking. I fall into it because of my diminishing hope. And like I said, my wife has no idea what I do, where I go or whom I'm with. All she knows is maybe what she might get from the girlies. My texts to D11. That I AM going out more.

I know who SHE'S with. Hence my anger, of course. Which led to her moving out, which led to my diminishing hope, which led to my falling into the ego stroking alphabet girls.

That all aside, in your opinion, what am I doing right?

More of? Less of?

I keep hearing I'm doing good, but am I doing enough of the right things. The things that, in your opinion, may win her back?

Just your opinion. I don't need you feeling responsible for what happens or my actions. Just want your insight.

[whatdidido]

I totally understand the diminishing hope. I was there. Your wife was there, and is still there. Your wife may not know what you do, but she could, and anyway, you don't want to have secrets from her (even though she made her own mistakes).

I totally understand your anger. My H still had it and we talked about it. We are now looking to the future so we don't talk about it much anymore. I don't bring up my past hurts and feelings and he doesn't either. The past is the past and we are now building a new future. You haven't had your wife "come back" remorseful, etc. so your anger will continue until that would happen.

You are doing many things "right", in my opinion. You are being a loving father and focusing on the kids. You gave her the retrovaille information. You put up pictures of both of you and said you do NOT want a divorce and you are still married. You do NOT accept what she chose and make it known to her. I would even kick that up a notch. Truth darts if you will.


Everyone is telling you to GAL and focus on you. You DO need to do this to be attractive to your wife and remain strong. If your wife never makes the right choice, you will still be ok and still be strong because of this GAL as well.

Other things......Have you ever had that talk about what she is doing? I mean, not being careful that you are stepping on her toes with the reality of it all? You gave her the info., have you followed up with the explanation of what it can do for both of you? She could never win a conversation about remaining married......But, I don't love you- Love is a decision and if you go to the weekend with me I can show you that. But, I'm not happy with you- You could be happy if you allow me to show you this by going to this weekend with me. I don't want to do anymore "working on it"- So, you are saying that you are giving up any chance of keeping your kids in a two parent family and will be a part time mom....etc. I guess I just think that a REAL heart to heart conv, WITHOUT the kids interrupting and having her face what she is doing, what she is doing, and showing her that there IS HOPE if she chooses it.

If you have already done all this, then disregard all that paragraph and remain the good Dad, and polite husband that throws truth darts at her every chance you can get. Do this until she decides to come back, or she serves you papers (get your lawyer ready and everything ready in case it hits when you are least expecting it). If you start to hate her, you detach completely for your own benefit and for any chance of you getting back with her. All this time you need to NOT be dating others, etc. I would have a "talk" or send a little "email" off and on but not ALL the time or she will begin to think you are just waiting in the wings for whenever she decides to come back and she will eat cake as long as she can. Whenever there is a chance to point out the effects of this on the children, do so. DIvorce is NEVER good on the children. There is research. SHe can never prove differently. Big, main point to emphasize..."SO, even though research and facts show that divorce and separation is detrimental to children, you are STILL unwilling to stop seeing OM for a while and then go to Retrouvaille with me to save our marriage and our kids' pain?"

[whatdidido]

And put your wedding ring back on.

[whatdidido]

You ok?

[lost_in_space]

And put your wedding ring back on.

H4H - as tempting as it is to leave it off, I agree with wdid. Just my $.02 worth.