I'm back after a long absence

[123snap]

Hi, thanks so much for all the support. It really helps.

I have been doing better with backing off, there have been several times I have really wanted to say something or question him but I have just let it go... not really worth the cost to discuss it with him.

H went for a walk with me last night voluntarily, I basically said I was going and asked if he wanted to go, then left it up to him, acted like I didn't care one way or the other.

H also asked if I had my list done yet, I didn't but I do now, will wait for him to ask for it. Monday I asked him if he wanted to postpone the counseling session that is set for tomorrow, he immediately said no, why? I just said I was just checking and left it alone.

So overall I am doing better with the distance and not hanging on every word/mood he is having. His communication with me has been improved, more general talk and not as much angst showing on his face. So I think backing way off is the way to go. In the counseling session I will take the part of listener and stay away from the used car sales pitch. I really feel like he has a lot of venting to do so I will let him, I can process myself and then discuss with my counselor and decide if I want to address anything in particular. I do better if I don't shoot from the hip anyway.

Tipper I don't know how you have had the strength to let him come and go. I have said to him he can't go and come back because I don't think I could handle it, but I wonder if he leaves and changes his mind what I will do... I would rather just avoid the whole leave thing.

School is going to help me keep my mind busy, although I was very frustrated with a couple things yesterday, I talked to H about them, but I think I probably should have just sat on them, they were school related so not R stuff at all.

I appreciate the support very much.

[123snap]

so I was feeling all desperate and hurt feelings because H was in a mood and was quick and quiet on the phone with me today. Then I read some good advice on here and am getting some perspective back.

Sigh this is such a journey, learning all the time, some times I feel like I will never learn it, one day at a time

[No Longer BH]

123snap, we all get down and frusterated at times. This board has been a godsend to me on so many different occasions. Glad you were able to get some great advice. There is plenty of it around.

It sounds like your H is really trying...asking for the list, wanting MC. Great signs! Dont let it get you down if he has a bad day. Those are HIS feelings and they should not impact you. That is some of what got you into this mess in the first place, identifying yourself THROUGH your H. Dont let all of your DBing work go away, maintain your own identity and happiness outside of your H. It will also help him with building your R back up. Your doing great.

[Tipper]

123Snap,
hey there, I am so glad to see that your starting to feel a bit better. I am also glad that you can see the positives in backing off and how it allows your H some space to breath when he needs it right now.

I said the same thing to my H the first time he returned to me, that he cant just up and leave again. I didnt realize at the time that 5 months later he would go through another huge bout with depression and leave me again. When that happened I felt like giving up for about 2-3 weeks. But then shortly after I could feel my love was still there for him and I was right back at DBing and the boards. I guess you dont know how you will feel unless if it happens to you.

The other reason why I didnt stop DBing after his second and third times he ran was because I had read here many times that that is rather common with MLCers and WAS's. So I accepted that if others could go through it and come out on the other side than why couldnt I. It is starting to pay off. My H has thanked me several times for how great I treated him when he was hurting me so bad.

I hope that your H will figure this out with out leaving you again. He seems to be hurting badly but he hasnt given up. Maybe he is starting to realize that his happiness or sadness is not because of you- but rather he is in control of that. It is a slow process, but your H seems to be on a good track by doing the counseling.

Well, hang in there. You can do this.
TIPPER

[123snap]

Hi all, thanks again for the support, it is a life saver some days.

We had a bad day yesterday. H was still short in the morning and I met him at the counselors and we started in. He is still very bitter about the past, he isn't letting go of any of it, and he doesn't trust that changes I have made are permanent. He did admit that we have really only been having real conversations about our R and the past in the last couple months. H is angry about things like my R with his mother, and it is plain at this time he is choosing her/siding with her over me. Fine, I don't agree with his perceptions that all of this is coming from me in that regard, but I am not going to get him to see that. I will just have to decide if I want to win that arguement or be married, or at least that seems the extreme he was at.

When we got home I was doing the usual mind going a 100 miles an hour and couldn't relax to sleep, so I woke him up to ask him if he wanted to go to the family reunion alone this weekend, he woke up and answered no, and then things got awful. He couldn't get back to sleep, he was so angry with me, essentially said I woke him up on purpose to wreck his sleep. I defended myself and pointed out to him that I used to work pm shift and get home at midnight, and he would wake briefly and then go back to sleep, and the kids wake us occasionally, and again he goes back to sleep, how was I supposed to predict that he wouldn't just go back to sleep again like usual. I don't think he bought it. He was so negative, so angry.

Then he said he didn't want to go back to the counselor anymore because he felt that she was taking my side, and picking on him. He accused me of not talking about his issues with my counselor, I reminded him that I talk about me, and him in terms of me with my counselor, I don't know what he meant by that, what he is expecting me to say differently, I have taken ownership of the mistakes I have made in the past, and I have apologized for hurting him. He makes it seem like that isn't enough and will never be enough. However me feeling hurt doesn't seem to matter, I won't even go into the whole affair, which he is now brushing off as a symptom of his anger and unhappiness with me, not something he did of his own accord. yeah bud I made you do that.... don't even start with me on that one.

I don't know, he had an individual appointment with his counselor so hopefully he got some perspective. At no time did the MC ask him to agree with me, just to acknowledge that my perspective was different, but mine. Apparently it has to be only his way, he has labeled me the bad person, I am all at fault for everything in his mind, he was the saint who gave and gave and never got anything back. Never mind how many times he rejected me for porn on the internet, never mind how many times he choose to clam up instead of pushing for something he needed, that is all my fault and I should shoulder all the blame.

He has me so angry right now. I don't know how this evening is going to go. I think my best bet is to avoid him and avoid an arguement until we have both processed a bit more. Don't feel a lot of hope right now. Don't want to give up, but don't have any fight left in me today.

[No Longer BH]

123, I just want to offer my opinion here. Your H sounds VERY depressed. Men tend to express their D with anger, not sadness. One of the things that lead to the complete distruction of my M was tht while my H was going through D, we were also trying to work on us. The pressure became too much for him and he had felt like a failure. I have since had a IC tell me that as long as a spouce is in a D, the only work that should be done it getting them out of the D. The M needs to wait until they are strong enough to actually shoulder some of the burden. As lond as they are depressed, the are too broken to fix anything. Just my 0.02 worth.

[123snap]

BH,

I agree that he is depressed. I put out there that we could delay the MC but he wanted to go ahead. If it was the only counseling going on I would be more concerned, but his counselor is pretty good, she pushes him on certain thing, like being honest with his feelings and so forth, I am confident that he is discussing the MC with her, I know that the MC (also my IC) is talking to his IC, so there is communication going on. We may change to an independant MC but will still sign for that person to get info from and to ours.

I think he is D, he is taking St John's Wort, but was inconsistent last week, so he lost ground there, he said he is considering prescription, but I have to let him do it on his own terms, it took him 2 years to take anything. He hasn't slept well all week, and that is making it worse. I will totally honor that and allow him to catch up his rest this weekend, that will help. I am also taking the stance that I need to be up front with my feelings. I told him that I am feeling sensitive today, and so that is part of my mood, he might not do anything different, I don't expect him to, but at least he knows where I am at.

One of the biggest breakdowns was either one of us honestly communicating our feelings, and recognizing what our feelings really were. I am guilty of turning fear and insecurity into anger, because for some reason anger was easier for me to deal with. I am working on identifying where these fears come from, so I can face them, deal with them and not fall into that trap. Of course it doesn't change the past, but that is his deal to get over, because nothing can change it and he can wallow in the past or look forward, it is his choice. I am choosing to work on the future, some of that means addressing issues from the past, but I won't get sucked into the vortex of past hurts, it won't change things. I will work to identify triggers and issues from the past and how not to go there again.

It is funny how sometimes just writing out the anger helps diffuse it. I am not feeling angry now, just scared and hurt. I hope by admitting these feelings I can move past them and get in a better place for me. We are going to the in-laws this weekend and that will be a challenge for me. PMA PMA PMA PMA PMA PMA I need this tatoo'd on my eyelids

adding in here:
I think going and talking out some of the hurts and issues is good because he has not done that, he hasn't felt safe doing that with me, because of my past reactions. He has held a lot of stuff in that I really think he needs to get out there. I also think that me not freaking out, staying in the talk will help build trust that he can share his feelings what ever they may be. Not discussing these has not put us any farther down the road. I only hope by showing that I can deal with the hard topics and that we can learn to communicate on this level, his trust can return and that it will bring some positive feelings along with it. He isn't in a good place now regardless and I think separation or worse would only make it worse for him. I am currently willing to wait it out, even when it is hard and nails. I like to think I am growing from this experience. I am not pushing on the counseling frequency and I am trying to not initiate R talks, although the last night was me, my bad, I am letting him take the lead.

J

[123snap]

the process took a major downhill turn today

H said he no longer wishes to try and reconnect, he said he doesn't want to. H is willing for us to live together until I finish school, which is in about 2 years, he is willing to go to counseling to talk about co-parenting and setting boundaries but he isn't interested in reconnecting.

Bombed all over again.

I am really starting to lose hope. H said he wants to go to counseling for the above reasons but that he will never say never. He is concerned about the financial cost of us separating at this time, and also the stress on the kids and me while I am in school. He is feeling guilty, he says he doesn't want to hurt me. H said he is just not interested.

So ... sure feels like we are done. Me? I still love him, at least right now I still do, there is a part of me that is angry and feels led on, lied to, all that stuff. I don't trust him, he keeps changing his story, one week he wants to try and then next he doesn't, what changes? I don't know, I confronted him on what that a lie? And he said no he feels like he did want to, but now he doesn't . He admits he can't forgive me for past hurts, he is holding a grudge, says he doesn't want to punish me.

I was upset and crying, he asked if he could hug me, I said no. Later on, I was upset and crying again and he said please let him hug me, so I did. WTF.

I don't want to slam the door if there is hope, but I don't want to keep killing myself if there is no hope. Once before 2 years ago he said there was no hope and he came back and said he wanted to try, and he said that was sincere.

I don't know what to believe, what not to believe, what to do, or not to do. I need to take care of my kids and myself, but I feel so lost and used. I am tired of being sad. 2 of my friends think I should ask him to leave, right now. I don't know how I feel about that. In some ways I think it would be a relief, it would be a huge financial hit for both of us. In other ways I think it would be a kick in the pants for him. In other ways I would be very sad, because I do still have hope and want this to work out.

I am so sad today. I don't know which way to turn. Hey Tipper, you've dealt with major depression, what is your take?

[No Longer BH]

123snap, it must be in the water. I found out on Sat that my H is with OW again and has no remorse for being with her again. I could have written your post word for word. I feel the same way, that by keeping my hope going I am stabing myself in the heart over and over again. If I really thought there was a chance, I might keep trying, but he has convienced me that there is no longer any chance. I am letting go even though I do not want to. I knew when I came here it was a gamble, and I am glad I took that chance. At least I can say I did everything in my power to try and fix things without losing myself again. See, that is the key. I know that if I keep holding out, I will lose myself waiting for him. I cant do that so have decided to just move on instead.

I really hope things turn out better for you. No one here deserve what we were dealt, but we all have shown how wonderful we are because of the way we have chosen to handle it. The spouces that dont come back are the losers in the end. They are the ones missing out on some truly incredibly loyal and loving people. Myheart goes out to you....((((HUGS))))

[123snap]

well we seem to be in a state of detaunt. H seems to know that I could very well ask him to move out, he asked me yesterday afternoon if I had thought any about what we talked about, duh!!

I asked him for assurances that if I say stay for now that he won't change his mind in a week or two weeks or what ever... basically he said he can't see moving out at this time there is still stuff he needs to do blah blah blah.

I don't think he knows what he wants, I think he is feeling depressed, guilty, and angry and thinks that those emotions will be better when he is alone, well they aren't going to go away until he processes them and deals with them, he will be just as depressed, guilty, and angry seperated, just now he can add on guilt of splitting the family up, and loneliness to the mix, gosh sounds like fun, sign me up.

He got a dose of karma. Last night in an effort to honor his sleep need, I let the dogs out at 1:30 am when they barked, they did their thing and then started playing around and making noise so I put the little dog in the car so we wouldn't be able to hear him (don't worry the temp is cool here) and went back to bed, often when when we need to do that we use his kennel but last night I was too tired.

Now you should know that this is my dog, and the kids are pretty attached to this dog as well. This morning while I am showering he comes in with a horrible painful sounding voice and says he thinks the dog was outside all night and he can't find him, I calmly inform him the dog is in the car.

Later I find out he was just sick because he left the dog out last night at one point when he was taking too long and had no memory of letting him in, this is a very small dog and he was worried that coyotes had got him. He said he didn't know how he was going to tell us and was feeling sick over the thought.

Well karma is a bitch sometimes.

I am trying to remain calm and put myself into other things right now. I have a personal counseling session tomorrow.