Im'e glad to see you socializing as a couple and that you are a little more comfortable. You are aren't you?
As for your W's cronic cough it can go away if she quits smoking. It would take a while but it does go away as long as there is no illness behind it. I have seen many a person I know who smoked for years and had a cough stop smoking and the cough did too.
Thank You for the post I have been trying to think of things. My mind has been fried I feel for now but I posted some things.
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
I meant that your comment makes sense as to why she might prefer to keep your marriage "private": being open about your R provides opportunities for outsiders to see and judge her mistreatments of you. It might not be a conscious thing...but maybe somehow she gets that she's not supportive or considerate of you in many ways, but doesn't want others to see her that way.
Aud, I see what you're saying. It makes sense, and I agree that people can act in ways without being aware of it.
It seems like an issue of power, and the way to break this pattern is for me to socialize more as a couple, and allow others to see her poor behavior. Of course, this should not be the motive to socialize with my W. The reason to socialize is to broaden and deepen our social connections.
My pattern in the past has been to avoid socializing with her, due to the extent of our marital problems. I didn't want the world to see this.
I think there's enough connection in the M to now be public as a couple. Things don't have to be perfect.
I think no matter how much the M improves, she will always have some degree of reactivity--it's who she is.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Jak, I think socializing more as a couple is a step in the right direction too. I have to be willing to let others see the imperfections in our R. I think the benefits of connection outweigh my concerns of what people may think, when my W is rude to me in public. Aud makes a good point that allowing others to see her behavior for what it is, may in fact have some influence on it, when it isn't validated.
She shared with me that she's having trouble breathing while sleeping, and that she is now concerned about COPD. I asked her what her plans are for quitting smoking. She said she fears that it's too late--there is permanent damage. I told her that it makes sense to quit, and see to what extent the body will heal itself.
She seems to want a guarantee that it's going to be worth her time to quit. I don't understand her ambivalence. I guess ruminating is easier than doing the work. She asked me to buy her some nicotine patches, so we'll see what happens.
CL
Last edited by Concerned_Listener; 08/30/0812:33 PM.
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
I very much think you are right about the socializing more as a couple outweighing the concerns. In time she might come to see that her being rude to you in public is only making her look bad then, maybe she will reevaluate her actions.
Maybe your W sees quitting smoking as more stress than she can't handle right now. What she fails to realize is that even if she had permanent damage it will escalate to a much higher level with less that could be fixed.
Are there support programs in your area for smoking cessation. I feel you are right in that it is easier than doing the work.
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
Jak, When dancing last night with a lady, she expressed outrage about my W's behavior the other night, complaining about how the waiter took the salad dressing. The lady said that my W "should get her own damn salad next time."
I appreciate the validation, however I don't want to triangle people into our R. I told her that time had passed, and that I had moved on.
My W and I attended private lessons at the studio where we are learning a new dance. Since it is a new dance, I'm having difficulty. We taped the lessons so we could review the instructions later, so that essential steps would not be lost.
Later that afternoon, my W wanted me to practice the steps. I told her that I needed to review the tape first. She insisted, saying that if I don't accept her help, than she won't help me further.
I was trapped. I wasn't ready for practice. It didn't go well, because I wasn't sure what I was doing. My W got angry with me for not having a smile one my face, stating that I'm smiling when I dance with other ladies. She said that she will no longer practice that particular dance with me.
I'll let time pass. She can't help herself but to help me.
I've started printing and giving to my W positive articles on smoking cessation. I gave her an article on the significant benefits to lung functioning from smoking cessation.
I get a weekly e-newsletter from the American Lung Association. I had stopped reading them, but it seems like the time to start educating myself on smoking cessation now that my W is expressing interest in quitting smoking again.
Like any difficult problem, it helps to think of moving towards smoking cessation in baby steps. Even cutting down is a step in the right direction.
There are smoking cessation programs in the area, and support groups. Joining one would be too big a step for her. I will praise her for any small step she will attempt.
We've been dancing so much together these past two months. It makes her happy. She can't seem to get enough of it. She works hard at improving herself. I don't make any comments about the money she spends on private lessons. I think it's money well-spent.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Jak, I counted 24 times last month that my W and I attended either a dance venue, lesson, or practiced at home. We're dancing a lot.
As predicted, my W came around and asked me if I wanted her help (on her terms, of course). I decided to try it her way (less emphasis on steps, more focus on upper body). It worked-out rather well this time.
Today will be spent preparing for our Hawaii trip. I will shop for some clothes, and new tennis shoes.
We'll see what kind of state-of-mind my W is in today--she was down and irritable yesterday. I'll connect to the extent wanted, give her space if she's crabby, and be helpful if she needs something done.
Even if she's been difficult to be around, I sleep in the marital bed, so that there is potential for touching. Last night she touched my shoulder with her hand, as she slept.
I think she needs this trip more than I do (maybe I'm underestimating my fatigue). I'm able to have quiet routine as part of my day. She needs to get away. I'm glad I agreed to this trip, and gave her permission to spend the money.
I certainly don't want to use dancing to make my W jealous. However, I think it's good for my self-confidence to have the skill to connect with ladies socially on a dance floor. It's good for my W to see this.
I guess she wants to make sure that she gets quality dance time with me also.
CL
Last edited by Concerned_Listener; 09/01/0803:21 PM.
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Wow Cl, thats almost everyday that you have been dancing!
Im'e glad that W reconcidered helping you, and that it worked out better. Did you keep a smile up?
You seem to be doing very well. I am also glad to see that you are still in the same bed. Has W slept elsewhere since you have started sleeping together?
Im'e sure that you both need the break from reality for the trip to Hawaii and I hope that both of you have a wonderfull time.
You certainly don't want to dilibratly make your W jealous but, she maybe feeling a twinge none the less.It would certainly be a self confidence booster to me thats for sure.
JAK
You don't get to choose how you're going to die. Or when, you can only decide how you're going to live now. ~Joan Baez
Jak, Today's packing day. We leave tomorrow for Hawaii.
I don't always sleep in the marital bedroom. Last night I heard her running a bath. This usually means that she is preparing to sleep elsewhere. She ran a bath last night. I was surprised to see her car still here this morning.
She struggles with bouts of coughing. It's frustrating that she's not being proactive about her health. I don't understand how someone can continue to do harm to their body.
I hope that this vacation gets her on a better path to managing stress and practicing self-care.
One of the helpful aspects of DB is that it trains you to be aware of your patterns and being willing to try something different. The process of evaluation and modification is constant.
My guess is that I need to be willing to take regular vacations at least twice per year, for no less than one week each. My pattern has been to take one vacation per year. My W and I haven't travelled since March 07'.
We're taking a laptop with us, so I should be able to keep up with things on the internet.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
I meant that your comment makes sense as to why she might prefer to keep your marriage "private": being open about your R provides opportunities for outsiders to see and judge her mistreatments of you. It might not be a conscious thing...but maybe somehow she gets that she's not supportive or considerate of you in many ways, but doesn't want others to see her that way.