Is it just sex....or more?????

[NikB]

Hi Changed Woman - posting to you as you asked. I can't tell what your whole sitch is (small hint - it really helps if you keep all your posts on one thread until it locks, makes it much easier to keep up with you).

Based on this thread and your recent posts, I'll try to offer some feedback. I see that you're getting lots of great thoughts/ideas from others too, which I'm very glad to see.

I saw your question on Trixi's thread, too. So that everyone can see what I'm talking about, here's what I posted to Trixi (and a number of others.. sorry if this is a repeat for some of you!):

Credit completely and totally goes to Oldtimer for this..

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...true#Post679252

Particularly:

"Did you ever know someone, maybe in elementary school, maybe in a job, that *really* wanted to be great friends with you, but you didn't want to be that close to them? This person would have been OK as an acquaintance, maybe someone to go out with after work for a drink occassionally, but was not a person that you wanted to have a heart to heart convo with, ever. This person seemed to need you, seemed a little clingy, a little pathetic and very sad. Even after they quit asking you to do stuff all the freaking time, they always looked up expectantly as you made your way toward the door for lunch. You could always perceive the slight hurt in their eyes when they overheard what you did with friends over the weekend. This person was always just waiting for you to adopt them as a close friend. This person did sweet things for you without putting any demands on you -- bringing you a cookie, telling you about a good airfare to someplace you want to visit, offering to dogsit when you went on vacation, getting angry on your behalf when your boss snarled at you... Do you remember the cloying suffocation you felt just being around this person? The stress of having to deal with this person's emotional neediness day to day? Sure, they weren't asking you to do stuff all the time anymore, but you could *feel* their desperate desire for a pal? Ugggghhhh... Exhausting. Then there is the anger and resentment that comes from having to live with this unwanted burden. The funny thing is, the person would really have been OK and you can see why some other folks in the office have no problem with that person as an occassional after work drink buddy. If only the person would back off and sincerely quit being the best friend in waiting, you'd probably be fine with them. But NO ONE likes someone who insists on standing in a more intimate R with them than they want with that person.

So many people here insist on playing the loyal committed spouse offering unwavering love and support which totally ignores the WAS's desire to have a less intimate R with that person. WAS's no longer WANT a husband-wife R with the LBS, yet the LBS's, mired in denial continue to thrust it upon them, pretty much guaranteeing the demise of their M and a lack of progress on themselves.

To really respect someone's feelings that is pushing you away, you need to give them at least as much distance as they are taking from you. Probably more to give them decent breathing room. This doesn't require closing the door on your M or having an A. It requires getting on with your own life and being responsible by making sure it will be a good life for you regardless of what happens to your M so that you aren't needy and dependent with respect to having the M in your life. Otherwise, you are like that annoying, cloying, person in the office who suffocates you by jumping up to get coffee everytime you do."

And here's an example OT posted to me in my sitch when I was pushing H too much:

"Think about the water cooler example. The annoying office person is finally giving you some space, leaving you alone, has quit sulking that you won't do lunch with her, etc... You become more pleasant to the annoying office person. You talk about the weather. Occassionally you say "hi" in the hallway. You stop walking the other direction when she walks in the door. Then, she confronts you in your office. Comes in and shuts the door, and starts to lay out exactly what she wants if you two are going to continue to be best friends -- regular nights out, coffee breaks together, share secrets, plan a vacation together, sharing funny emails, etc... OMG!!!! I'd say your next step would be to get a deadbolt for your office and bring your own water."

And here's the question I'm replying to:

Question? Would it be a mistake to acknowledge to WAS that I understand he does not want to be in a R with me anymore and let him know I will back off out of respect for him...or just not say anything?

This is an easy one. NO do not tell him - NO R TALK!! Just do it.

It sounds like he is quite adament about not wanting much of an R with you. Give him what he's asking for. If you do it right and actually DO give him enough space I can pretty much guarantee that will be FAR more effective.

so tell me what you think about this. <snip> Does anyone think he was fishing???

Nope.. not going to tell you what I think about it, because it doesn't matter. You can't read your H's mind. Neither can I. I bet even HE would have difficulty with it right now.

On the whole cupboard thing.. I totally agree with GF, at least he ASKED.

GREAT job not "hovering" and being so much less clingy/needy - glad to see that.

Does anyone ever get sick and tired of dealing with their crap???? I mean seriously he moved out and I should feel bad for saying "my cupboards"? Sheesh!

Oh yes.. it's tough stuff to deal with! Get mad, frustrated, whatever, just don't let HIM see that. Act like someone he wants to be around.. if you can't, don't be there. For the record I thought that was pretty rude too and basically a small way to rub his nose in the fact that he left.

I told him it was up to her and asked him why he sounded pissed.

Don't ask too much about his life. If he decides to open up, listen and validate.. for example:

(and I know this convo is in the past which can't be changed - just pointing out some ideas for the future)

So I said...oh...that was rude...I'm sorry and I think for the most part I'm really nice to you...I just had a bad week.

This is the opposite of validating. I think the apology part was good but you should have left it at that. The "for the most part.." wasn't needed and basically invalidated what he told you.

He responds with I'm not the only one who has stress in their life...I said I realize that, but I did say I was sorry and I am so can you let it go? He says whatever and we hang up.

... no "but"... say "I know, I'm sorry, it's a stressful time" or something like that. At this point he wasn't talking about the cupboards anymore, he was talking about being stressed.

asking if I can get his crockpot together for him to pick up. I texted back "what???"

What didn't you understand about his request? You knew he wanted the crockpot. A much better response would have been: "Yes, I'll get that for you" or "I can't reach it but you can get it when you're here." Don't make it into an argument. If there's only one person "arguing" it stops pretty quick.

Me: Oh please could you let it go already...I don't think you realize how much it hurts when you remind me you don't live here anymore by slowly taking all your stuff....could you cut me some slack already?

... this tells me a lot.

A few thoughts for you. First let go of the idea that you can make him see, think, realize, etc. things. You can't. Second, you're assuming that's his intent - to "remind you" that he doesn't live there anymore. I doubt that's the case. I doubt it's about you at all - he simply wanted the crockpot.

BUT... that said, it IS OK for you to share your feelings on things like this. But make it about YOU not about HIM. "H, it hurts me a lot that you're slowly taking things from the house. It hurts because it's a constant reminder that you've moved out."

.. and, I think you REALLY need to solve this problem because it's going to continue to hurt you. Ask him to take all of his stuff, so this no longer happens.

I vaguely remember seeing somewhere that he couldn't take all his stuff yet because he's going to have to move again, something like that? (sorry if I'm mixing yours up with another sitch). If that's the case.. box/bag everything up for him, and put it somewhere out of sight for you (spare bedroom? garage?).

This is a pain point for you so TAKE CARE OF YOU by taking care of the issue.

(((CW)))