You have a good attitutde about this.....that will help you through the tough times. You have a good gae plan for the short term...Focus on those boys.....they need you! Hope you have a great time with them!
TwinDad Me 39, W 36, M 11 W - MLC, WAW???? 2 Kids B/G 3 YRS Old Start of the Long and Bumpy Road..... On the verge of piecing.....a new beginning
TD, You have become an absolute godsend to me. I thankyou again for your support. Well, I am at home now, youngest in bed, eldest out at a friend, and W at sisters. I have really really worked hard the last couple of days to avoid the same old traps and pitfalls. It has, as we all know, been incredibly hard, but I have just been going with the flow, validating, listening etc. Virtually no mention of OM from her, and nothing from me on the subject. I think perhaps by trying to explain to her in the email and in a short subsequent conversation, she has grasped that it is unacceptable to bombard me with info on this guy. I think the final straw was when she started discussing whether or not they were compatible as zodiac signs. I did not react at the time, but felt that through the email, I had to make it clear that I wasn't a doormat, and that I didn't want to hear it any more. Maybe it did have some resonance, as in past few days she has not brought him up, and I certainly have not either. Walking around my neighbourhood, I have been reminiscing about the past, our old apartment, parents house etc. There's such a lot of history there over 20 years. I have really been struggling with the idea that I should try to accept that she is really done, and I am only prolonging my pain by fighting against the situation. But I know that everyone will say that if it is worth fighting for, then I should keep on. In any case, pretty much all convos that we have had have been light and about the future of our family. She will allow me to come home, and says that she wont go to her sisters, if I can learn to live with the fact that it's over, and to just interact positively for the boys. I have listened, agreed, and validated, ana am actually just a little proud of myself for keeping control and for acting "as if", and not letting her extreme coldness to emotionally destroy me (at least not in her presence). I appreciate that I am so much more lucky than many of the people here, in as much that I still have contact with boys and her. She is a good person, and I am sure that anyone reading that extract from her email can see that. When I read it, it looks to me that she really is genuinely over with us,but is dedicated to the welfare of her children. I don't know whether that makes it easier or harder.
One strange thing today though. I went to pick up kids from Om's wife's house, and met her and briefly had a chat about our situations. She has no idea about her H and my wife, and because of the kids, and also the words from my wife that if I ever mentioned it, then it would destroy so many lives. I also think that right now, there is little to be gained by exposure of the situation to her. It would certainly destroy any last vestiges of hope for reconcilliation with W. She also said that her H (OM) was returning to family home this week. I feel she is deluded, and I felt sorry for her, but could not bring myself to give her anything further. I did however recommend most strongly that she get the DR book. I have been focusing on boys, and that's been good.
Gotta hang on and keep at it.
Sorry about the rant............
me: 45 w: 43 Married 19yrs Separated 6 months 2 children Bomb April2008 OM/EA May 2008. Not filed yet.
That is by no-means a rant. That was an excellent post!
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She will allow me to come home, and says that she wont go to her sisters, if I can learn to live with the fact that it's over, and to just interact positively for the boys.
That is WAW speak for I am watching you, stop the R talks, give me space.....and spend time with the boys. This is huge because she will have an opportunity to show her your DB skills. An opportunity to excell. She is right your R is over, you didn't want that one anyways.....but there is always the possibility for another with your W.
Look at the results of your actions so far....OM has not been brought up....by you or her. See you can have an impact on her!
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One strange thing today though. I went to pick up kids from Om's wife's house, and met her and briefly had a chat about our situations. She has no idea about her H and my wife, and because of the kids, and also the words from my wife that if I ever mentioned it, then it would destroy so many lives. I also think that right now, there is little to be gained by exposure of the situation to her. It would certainly destroy any last vestiges of hope for reconcilliation with W. She also said that her H (OM) was returning to family home this week. I feel she is deluded, and I felt sorry for her, but could not bring myself to give her anything further.
Or could it be that the OM, realized that leaving home wasn't everything he thought it would be....? You are right, it is not your place to tell the OM's W anything....absolutely not!
Some very good baby steps! Continue doing what you are doing
TwinDad Me 39, W 36, M 11 W - MLC, WAW???? 2 Kids B/G 3 YRS Old Start of the Long and Bumpy Road..... On the verge of piecing.....a new beginning
God, you really are an inspiration. I don't know how you find the time, energy and the compassion to reply post so frequently. I am so aware that I have an opportunity here to try to exercise some of the techniques in Michelle's book. I just hope that I can control myself, my broken heart and emotions. I'm afraid, knowing my wife as I do, that I don't currently share your optimist ( although much appreciated ) about OM situation. It is certainly true that he is dedicated to his children, a fact that I know my W finds extremely attractive. But having had the inside info from my wife in gory detail about their R, it doesn't seem terribly likely that this is will alter my situation any. I know I must stop obsessing about OM, his R with W and my W. But it is inescapable because of my kids R with this family. All of our lives seem to be inextricably linked somehow. That's all very very strange.
I wish that he was someone that my wife didn't know before. I guess I'm thinking out loud as I write here, but perhaps it really is about how OUR R is dead, more than that he is the new R. I'm very scared and confused. She's just SO not the person I know (certainly in her behaviour toward me), apart from her absolute resolute dedication to our kids. I have, at Lola's suggestion, made an appointment with a therapist\counseller next week. I am hoping that she will be able to assist in some way with many of my core issues in my life and my relationship, or lack thereof with my W.
Most of all, I'm hoping that she wont simply say that I should give up now, as my R with W if clearly over. I seem to recall Michelle saying that were that the case, then one should find a new therapist. Guess I'll just wait and see how it pans out. I am anxious though, that I do make headway with trying to cope with all the issues in my life. I know there are no quick or easy answers. My wife's hair has begun to fall out too, and SHE has now consulted a therapist\ healer\ dietician. I feel certainly partially responsible for her stress, although it was not me who wanted to end our marriage. I don't want any of the people I love in my life to suffer needlessly in all this. Especially the kids, who are, quite frankly, bloody amazing. I keep praying, for guidance, strength, courage, and most of all, for the knowledge of God's will, and the the power to carry it through.
Praying I can just get through tomorrow without any major DB blunders. Take Care TD, and Thanks........... Really.
me: 45 w: 43 Married 19yrs Separated 6 months 2 children Bomb April2008 OM/EA May 2008. Not filed yet.
You are doing the right thing. This isn't easy, but you are doing well.
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I wish that he was someone that my wife didn't know before. I guess I'm thinking out loud as I write here, but perhaps it really is about how OUR R is dead, more than that he is the new R. I'm very scared and confused. She's just SO not the person I know (certainly in her behaviour toward me), apart from her absolute resolute dedication to our kids. I have, at Lola's suggestion, made an appointment with a therapist\counseller next week. I am hoping that she will be able to assist in some way with many of my core issues in my life and my relationship, or lack thereof with my W.
Why are you so afraid of this man? From your description of him, his biggest strength is spending time with his children.....i.e. a family man......but yet he walks out on them? I obviously don't know the details of his R with his W, but I do know there are always two sides to a story and just in his discussions with your W he is far from innocent in his R with his W. Also I am sure your W is only hearing one side of it.....as he probably has little pity parties. If he spends enough time away from home, the other side will likely come out in some fashiopn or another.
So if his greatest strength is spending time with kids......that will becoe yours as well (should be under any circumstances). He will never be able to compete with the fact that your W and you share the same love for your children.....focus off the R onto the kids!
I don't think I would involve your W in the IC discussions. I wouldn't necessarily be afraid to talk about it if she brings it up....but I woul dbe very cautious about it turning into an R talk.....remember your reasons for going to IC are to help you become a better person....not save your M.
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Most of all, I'm hoping that she wont simply say that I should give up now, as my R with W if clearly over
If your IC says this, then you need to find a new IC....seriously. The IC should support your goals. Don't be afraid to ask her if she is willing to support you in the endeavor first thing when you get there. You don't give up until you are ready to give up.....period (despite what your W or IC might say)
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I don't want any of the people I love in my life to suffer needlessly in all this
You are a good person.
Teh mosty important thing right now is to make your changes in you and be consistent. Realize, it took a while for your W to reach her current state of thinking....it is going to take a while for her to turn her thoughts around. In the interim she will be watching you, be consistent so she can learn to TRUST your changes as real and make them real!
Last edited by TwinDad; 08/25/0812:04 PM.
TwinDad Me 39, W 36, M 11 W - MLC, WAW???? 2 Kids B/G 3 YRS Old Start of the Long and Bumpy Road..... On the verge of piecing.....a new beginning
Good Morning Grant: Thank you so much for the kind words you posted to me. I am always happy to share an experience in the hopes that it might help save someone's marriage.
I am glad to see you made an appointment with a C. I have a wonderful C, she has never pushed me to make a decision or recommended that I file for divorce, but only how to work on myself. I agree w/ Michelle when she says if your C does not support what you are trying to do, find one who will. No C should tell you that you need to throw in the towel on your M.
Really wanted to just check in and see you how are doing this morning, and how your weekend went?
Im still standin better than I ever did looking like a true survivor feeling like a little kid Im still standin after all this time and Im picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind..
Thanks so much for posting. I think it's really very odd how time appears to be moving so slowly. Each day feels like a week, and I get confused about how much is changing month to month. Although I know this must have really begun a long time ago, it seems like it was only yesterday that we were (apparently) together and happy. I'm under no illusions though.
TD, thanks again for your insight. Just a bit of background on OM situation..... It would appear from all accounts that his wife has many issues, has been violent, and has consistently avoided all his advances and attempts at making their marriage work. Of course, as you rightly say, this is to some extent, 3rd party info, and can be biased in any number of ways.
I am "afraid" of him, principally because I see my W being inexorably drawn toward him in her words and actions. Just as a for instance, as she drove me to leave home yesterday, a song came on the radio that just happened to be "their" song from High school. She turned up the radio full blast and shouted "Oh I LOVE this song". Silly, I know, but these little things can wound deeply.
The weekend was not entirely without incident, although I had tried so hard to DB with a little success I think. She had stayed at her sister's and so there was not too much interaction between us. I think at best, it might be described as "strained", with the old "elephant in the room" thing. She appears to be building those defences and walls even higher now, and there is little sign of warmth.
OM had not been mentioned all w/end, perhaps because I had tried to make it clear that I felt disrespected by her constant references to him. But as her song played, she said " You should know that he has gone back to his family, and I hope that She (OM'S W) gets her act together for his sake". Blimey! That's alright then... lol
About half an hour before I had to leave, she decided to initiate a conversation about how our possible future would look. By that, I mean that she let me know that she was upset and angry that I was looking at other options for working more from home. Though she made it clear that she understood that it was my home too, and she could not stop me from spending more time there, she felt that it was too late, and resented that it was now that I was making changes, instead of a few years ago when it would have made a huge difference.
She also said that she could not envisage a situation where we would both be in the same house, partly because of the stress to both her and the children, but also because she didn't want to see me in constant pain from the rejection. She mentioned a friend of ours who, when split, tried to live in 2 parts of the same house. It caused untold pain and suffering to the partner still in love with his estranged wife, and she didn't want to put me through that.
I guess that makes perfect sense to her in the logic of the WAW. Hell, it makes sense to me too in many ways. I have been reading some of the posts from WAW section, and I see so many of the patterns of behaviour in my wife.
I did my very best to listen and validate, but she kept on pressing me on how I could possibly see a situation like that working for us. All I said was, that I didn't know how this would all end up, and that we were on a journey. Divorce was not mentioned at all, except in an earlier email last week, where she had said...... " I don't want to talk about divorce at the moment. I want us to get to the point where we can be friends and talk, and if we decide on divorce, we will do it together. That will save any bitterness in the future".
You see, when I read that back, I could see how that might be interpreted as "hopeful". But it appears that with every interaction, she pushes me further and further away. I know WAW speak in absolute negatives, and it's desperately hard not to want to just throw in the towel and try to escape the interminable pain.
My biggest dilemma right now, (apart from teetering on the brink of caving in), is to know whether trying to engender a situation where I am at home more, would be the final nail in the coffin. She may begin to resent me even more for invading her space, and interfering with her "new life". I appear to be damned if I do, and damned if I don't.
She must be very concerned about what will happen with our home. She asked leading questions about my work in the future and was hoping that I would be able to afford a proper home of my own, while she could retain the family home and presumably continue as normal. Whilst I am desperate not to uproot my family, there is no way that I could maintain 2 separate households, and I'm feeling that if there really is no hope for reconcilliation, that I will need to bring up the fact that we'll have to sell. That will be my very last call, and I'm not going there until I have exhaused all possibilities.
She also questioned me about the C that I am about to see. I don't think she believed that I had actually made the appointment, and asked what her name was, how I found her etc.
Anyhow, that 's where I'm at right now. Not really knowing whether I'm coming or going. So nearly sent her a text this morning telling her that I couldn't do this any more. BTW, I didn't. Managed to hold off.
(((Lola,))) it was a pleasure. You are an inspiration to me, and I will take on board what you say about the C. Thank you! I hope your sitch improves soon.
(((San))).... I'm so so sorry that you're going through this. I have been in that situation, where your partner is in A with best friend. That is just too hideous, and I feel for your heart deeply. Please do feel free to share and vent, and if we can find any commonality in our situations, perhaps it might help us both.
I need so so badly to GAL and start getting out of the fog, and that seems to be the only real options open to us right now.
Praying and hoping for better times for us all.
Thanks, and sorry for the long post.
me: 45 w: 43 Married 19yrs Separated 6 months 2 children Bomb April2008 OM/EA May 2008. Not filed yet.
Your W seems very bitter and resentful. I can see where she might see it as a slap in the face for you to all of sudden to make family life a priority. Turning up her "song" from HS is just plain mean and she knows it but there is not much you could do about it since it is defensible (if it means anything my W did the same thing to me)
Some good things - She wants to work on being friends first (very good) - No talk about D - The OM appears to be completely out fo the picture (though she might pine for him)
As I told you earlier, consistency is going to be the key, this isn't going to be easy, you have to decide what your limit is. If it was me I would continue to do what you are doing and focus on your boys, GAL with them. As this becomes apparent to be a lifestyle change she will likely lower some of her defenses. She might want to be included in some of the activities.
She told you herself that some of these changes would have made a huge difference a couple years ago....doing the opposite (i..e what you had been doing) certainly isn't going to bring you closer to your goal.
Be consistent with your counselor as well. She sees you making an effort, she will be watching you carefully and all along will be saying it isn't going to work......a very familiar theme around here. Continue to make changes that are going to make you a better person. If she says it isn't going to help your sitch then just say "I don't know where things are going to lead, I am just workig on being a better person regardless of what happens"
I would try to get Smart Cookie or Sandi2 to post to your thread if you could to get a WAW perspective....it is always good to know what the other side is thinking.
Only give up when you are ready to give up
TwinDad Me 39, W 36, M 11 W - MLC, WAW???? 2 Kids B/G 3 YRS Old Start of the Long and Bumpy Road..... On the verge of piecing.....a new beginning
Thanks again TD. Yes, she is very bitter and resentful, and I have no doubt where that comes from, and she may have every right to feel the way that she does. Sorry that the HS song happened to you too. Just feels like she has had an emotion-bypass operation, and is either oblivious to me hurt, or is just past caring anymore.
I see the "friends" thing as good too, and the no D talk. Not too sure about OM, but it's beyond my influence in any case. I need to let that go. I get the consistency thing, and I'm nowhere near that yet. I need to get to the point that I am strong and my self esteem has risen above the zero point. Will keep focusing on the boys too, and I must hold onto and develop that realtionship at all costs.
I guess what you're saying is that if I don't change the home/work situation then it's more of the same behaviours, which as you rightly say, have not worked.
Like the "better person" thing, and that makes absolute sense. Thanks. See-sawing on the give up/ keep going thing. I've got to give this some more time.
me: 45 w: 43 Married 19yrs Separated 6 months 2 children Bomb April2008 OM/EA May 2008. Not filed yet.
