Positive developments?

[jon2911]

Some of this will probably be TMI, but here goes.

Got into Houston at 11:30 on Friday night, and I had some of that new KY His and Hers that's all over TV. It was fun

Saturday we went to the Harley dealership to get some stuff for my bike, and I bought W a HOT shirt. I was really surprised at the one she picked out. It's so nice to see her new confidence. And it matches a shirt I have, so we made quite the couple. W had been online checking the new '09 bikes out, and I showed her around. Had no idea she was on such a Harley kick. Cool.

We went for a long ride, ending with the Dark Knight in iMax. Very fun. When we got back, W informed me she officially had a yeast infection. What the crap? This never happened when we lived together, but a few times while separated. Probably because of stress, and I guess the KY didn't help.

Sunday was interesting. We canceled our beach plans, and W started being bitchy. Of course, she secretly blamed me for her sickness. I was bummed out at first, but then thought it could be a chance to be a good husband. I told her I wanted to pamper her all day, and let her sit on the couch while I went and got medicine, dinner, etc. We finished out the night watching Army Wives with her roommate. Roommate still has no idea who I really am, but whatever, we get along. W began a big R talk that night, which of course ended with no resolution.

Monday morning, I used a new Harley leather product on all my gear while she got ready. W was impressed and said that was good use of my time. (I remembered a hint from The Notebook, where he would make himself busy while his wife was getting ready, so she didn't feel rushed. Little things).

We had lunch, and went to her grandparent's ranch to drop off some furniture. It was nice and relaxing, some of our favorite memories are out there. She started another R talk, and I had to draw the line.

Our R talks go like this, both in the marriage and now:
1. W begins angry accusations
2. I listen and affirm, apologize
3. W gets even more mad because I'm not "defending myself" (i.e. I'm not blowing up in anger like her dad would)
4. I begin to give my opinion, but she cuts me off every few words.

I told her I'm done with that. If she wants to have a discussion, we'll take turns for a minute, no interrupting. "But everything you say is full of lies", she says. I mentioned e-mail for discussions. Later, I left at 4:00 AM and got back to work Tuesday morning. Third time I've done this, to get a little more time with W.

A couple positives from the weekend:
- W uses the excuse that sex works for us, but nothing else. Well, no sex after Friday night, and we still had a good weekend. Take that WAW!

- W asked me what I'm telling my friends and family. She still expects me to keep our meetings a complete secret, which is unrealistic. My answer? I want to build our friendship, even if the marriage ends. She really liked that.

- after the R talk, I told her that it seems like she's just trying to hurt me, and sabotage our time together. She said "yes, I try to hurt you, because I can tell you're changing and don't want you to stop". First indication I've had that she can see the changes.

- I asked why she wants to spend time together, if she's just trying to pick a fight. She said "because I miss it. I miss the road trips, the small towns, the trains, even some things I used to hate."

So, there ya go. DBing 101. She's remembering the good times, but still scared that I won't change and that things will go back to the way they were. I feel like we're getting there, but still an amazing amount of anger from her. Hopefully she can start to release it.

[MichelleLT]

I had some of that new KY His and Hers that's all over TV. It was fun

Haha. I've been thinking to buy some of that!

- after the R talk, I told her that it seems like she's just trying to hurt me, and sabotage our time together. She said "yes, I try to hurt you, because I can tell you're changing and don't want you to stop". First indication I've had that she can see the changes.

Hmm, great that she sees the changes and wants them to continue. VERY BAD that she thinks she has to push you in order for you to continue them! That will NOT work in the long run! What can you do to reassure her with actions they will continue - i.e. that the changes are for YOU and you will do them regardless of what she does?

Also, how can you get her to ASK for what she wants instead of pushing/prodding/nagging/arguing?

Other than that, sounds like a good weekend. Definite progress I think. (((Jon)))

[maninmotion]

I told her I'm done with that. If she wants to have a discussion, we'll take turns for a minute, no interrupting. "But everything you say is full of lies", she says. I mentioned e-mail for discussions.

Yes, e-mail will help. Another thing than can help is the I feel/felt/found statements. You've undoubtedly heard this before, but, as a reminder for me Between two people, there are three versions of reality. What you experienced and remember, what she experienced and remembers, and what the video feed shows. Since, none of us is the video feed, all we can say about the nature of reality is "this is how it seemed to me","this is what I remember","this is how I felt about xyz"

Another thing while I'm streaming consciousness. Trust is built up by repeated actions over time. Frankly, we can trust someone to act like a jerk and be surprised if they don't. So, the picking a fight with you will I imagine fade over time as she sees that you've had identity level change and you aren't just putting on the changes.

I'll offer up one more thought as it's something that I think about frequently. As you change and grow in confidence and as your willingness to tolerate BS decreases, the potential for conflict arises and my impression is that it's easy for the WAS to look at the fact there is a conflict and determine that nothing has changed, when the reality is that there has been lots of change and now they are in the position of needing to grow and change in order to relate to you in a mature adult manner.

Oh, Jon, congratulations on the weekend. You did great.

Dan

[jon2911]

Haha. I've been thinking to buy some of that!

LOL. After this weekend, the commercial just pisses me off. We've decided we do just fine without any help

Hmm, great that she sees the changes and wants them to continue. VERY BAD that she thinks she has to push you in order for you to continue them! That will NOT work in the long run! What can you do to reassure her with actions they will continue - i.e. that the changes are for YOU and you will do them regardless of what she does?

Also, how can you get her to ASK for what she wants instead of pushing/prodding/nagging/arguing?

Michelle, these are good questions. She spends a lot of time complaining that I never changed before. Really, her constant attacks had the opposite effect then, as I felt like a worthless loser who could never make enough money and be successful enough to impress her and her family (side note, she told them about my Harley. Would LOVE to see their horrified response. I have a little bit of an f- them attitude now). Now that I'm confident again, she says she needs to see more humility. Definitely something to work on.

When we fell into the same pattern this weekend, I wanted to ask "well, this didn't work before, did it?" I'm open to any ideas.

Maninmotion, thanks for the tip. I'm out for now but will check back tomorrow.

[jon2911]

Between two people, there are three versions of reality. What you experienced and remember, what she experienced and remembers, and what the video feed shows. Since, none of us is the video feed, all we can say about the nature of reality is "this is how it seemed to me","this is what I remember","this is how I felt about xyz"

Another thing while I'm streaming consciousness. Trust is built up by repeated actions over time. Frankly, we can trust someone to act like a jerk and be surprised if they don't. So, the picking a fight with you will I imagine fade over time as she sees that you've had identity level change and you aren't just putting on the changes.

I'll offer up one more thought as it's something that I think about frequently. As you change and grow in confidence and as your willingness to tolerate BS decreases, the potential for conflict arises and my impression is that it's easy for the WAS to look at the fact there is a conflict and determine that nothing has changed, when the reality is that there has been lots of change and now they are in the position of needing to grow and change in order to relate to you in a mature adult manner.

Dan, this is good stuff. A phrase comes to mind, "perception is reality". Especially when women are involved

I really hope the fight-picking will fade over time, and that we can build trust.

[jon2911]

Meanwhile, back on As the World Turns...

Not much contact this week, at least not the nightly phone calls. I had a great weekend hanging out with friends at a Fantasy Football draft (Go Cowboys!).

Saturday morning, I get a call from W's area code. I picked up thinking it might be her. It wasn't.

Little background (can't remember if I've gone over this):

W found an incredible deal on a house on Craigslist. She lives with another female roommate in a brand new house. The "landlord" bought a second house closer to Houston. Didn't like his commute, supposedly. Jaquir has way too much money, but is cool guy. The house is fully furnished, but it all belongs to a former roommate who went to prison on drug charges. Jaquir told us this guy owes him a lot of rent money, so he's keeping the stuff.

Saturday morning, a week ago, a dude rolls up in a Mercedes and knocks on the door, asking "is Jaquir here?" I didn't think anything of it, told him that Jaquir got a new house, and rents this one to some new tenants. "Oh, I used to be a tenant here, and I'm here to pick up my stuff". Definitely an oh sh-t moment.
Jaquir, roommate, and former roommate are all black, not to be racist but the story might make more sense.

I wasn't expecting the dude, named James, to get out of prison and roll up in a Mercedes. I told him to call Jaquir and work it out, that I couldn't let him take the stuff, all the while acting like I was a tenant, not wanting him to know that two women live there. I also gave him my phone number. Supposedly, Jaquir took care of it, told James to not come by again.

Fast forward to Saturday morning. "Hi, this is James, I'm almost to the house to pick up my stuff". Oh sh-t #2. He never talked to Jaquir. Jaquir is a liar and I shouldn't listen to him, he needs his stuff back.

I called W immediately, she didn't pick up the first few times, then got mad at me for talking to James. Supposedly, it's handled now, and W is fine.

Never mind that her "too good to be true" house deal has put her in the middle of an f-ing drug deal situation. She's an extremely sheltered girl who's getting a bit of reality. Fortunately, she lives in a nice neighborhood less than a mile from her parents.

Can someone please turn off this soap opera now?

[LolaL]

(((Jon))) Wouldn't it be easier if we could just click the "off" button on the remote???

Sometimes, I think our spouses really need a good dose of the real world for them to come to their senses. Just remember, GAL, and she will get a feel for real life.

How are you doing with all this?

[jon2911]

How are you doing with all this?

I'm very frustrated today. How can she be ticked at me? I think it was providential that I was there last week when James dropped by, and that he called me Saturday. W has complained many times that I wasn't protective enough during our M, and now she won't let me.

She wants a call from me promising that I won't talk to James again She says things like "well, if he drops by, I just won't answer the door." She's so far out in la-la land it's unbelievable. But I'll try and gently tell her that I'm here if she ever needs help...

[jon2911]

OK, made the call, went as expected.

Me: I won't call James again. I didn't know it was him calling Saturday.
W: Thanks for telling me he was coming by, but can you save his number and ignore his calls.
Me: Yes. I didn't intentionally get involved in this, but can't help but feel protective.
W: Why? Because I'm gone now? You were never protective before.
Me: I was, but didn't know how to show it. And I think you're in a lot more danger now than you realize.
w: Don't tell me crap like that. It feels like you're showing off. When we lived in the ghetto and there was a shooting down the street, you didn't protect me then. (W sounds teary, hangs up).

Background: we didn't live in the ghetto. It wasn't the perfect little neighborhood W grew up in, but was fairly safe. We had friendly neighbors who looked out for us, and never any problems. The shooting down the street scared me, and I tried to get a job and move us out of there.

Still, there's danger everywhere, even the nicest neighborhoods. W is in a LOT more danger now than she ever was then. In a perfect neighborhood right next to her parents. And I think she realizes that and it's bugging the hell out of her.

I'm smiling picturing what FIL would do if he knew about this drugs situation. The guy would have a hernia. LOL.

[MichelleLT]

She expects her H to be protective. But really, she's not treating you like her H. And she doesn't expect the same things she expected when you were living together.

Let her deal with it.

Let her call you instead of trying to get involved.

And get yourself uninvolved with the house thing. It's her problem.