Trixi and His Highness

[Trixi]

The thread fairies have been busy today locking things up.

Link to last thread
I don't necessarily have any new news--but he is coming over tonight for the Farmers Market feasting and Spanish studying.

Last night I started thinking about the logistics of moving back in, and I started getting cold feet. (Not that I've been invited or anything, but...) Like, I happen to really like my new dining room set, but it isn't really big enough for the other house (which has a set I don't particularly like.) I really like my new (to me) entertainment system (sort of country) and H recently bought a new system that is more modern and contemporary. And, now that H has all this studio/band stuff, there isn't a place for us to share an office. My prairie dogs are currently in my living area and I like having them where I spend most of my time (as opposed to stuck away in some room that I am not in as much.)

I could go on. But the bottom line is that I have made myself a nice little nest; my stuff "fits" in here. I don't want to lose myself. But, is my 'stuff' myself? Also, I don't want to move again. WTH is wrong with me?

Of course, currently this is all a moot point; but *if* by some miracle, he decides he wants to give 'us' a go, I am afraid. I'm afraid that I will go thru the pain of moving, of selling off the duplicate furniture, of giving up the opportunity to have owner financing; and then have him flake out again. If I decided to store the dupe furniture, then am *I* really committed if I have created an "easy" exit?

Ugh.

[NikB]

(((Trixi)))

I love your new thread title.

Question for you... would it make any sense financially for you to purchase the house with the owner financing, but make it a rental?

I ask because MIL did that after her first H walked out (my FIL). She bought a condo of her own, and rented it out when she later remarried. I know it may sound counter-intuitive, but I think it was very mentally and emotionally healthy for her to KNOW she had a place to "land" if anything like that ever happened to her again. She said she'll never, ever give up that security after going what she went through. When her 2nd H became abusive, she had a "home" to go to.

Yes, you can be committed to your M but still protect yourself. The dupe furniture... well, you could rent it partially furnished if you wanted. Or if there's room in the garage, stipulate that your furniture will be stored there. Something like that.

I don't think it means you're not committed, at all.

[Trixi]

Yeah, good idea about buying it anyway. I would probably be "short" about $600/mo, but compared to running two whole separate households, that's nothing.

So, he came over last night and we did the "Farmer's Market Haul" experience. How *I* think it *should* happen is that both of us go and then have the whole experience immediately after. It should be like this: We go and pick out our fresh goodness for dinner; flowers; go and get a good bottle of wine. Come back to the house; heat up roasted veggie foccacia as appetizer while putting foods away. Drink wine, have appetizer;chit chat; putter. Prep meat for BBQ. Prep veggies for salad. eat salad. meat on bbq. more fresh veg w/meat. break. Fresh homehade icecream with fruit from market. BUT, since we didn't go together on Sunday, we crammed what I think should take about 4 hours into about 2.5, but it was still nice.

ANYWAY-
Got travel catalog in mail and so during our salads, I started reading about some different trips. There is one from Panama to Seattle that is 22 days and about $2800/pp (incl air). It includes stops in the Bahamas, Columbia, Panama Canal, Costa Rica, 4 stops in Mexico, San Diego and Victoria. So H says "hmm..that's sounds like a one I would want to do. When is it?" (April 18-May 10) He takes the brochure from me and says "yeah, that looks fun. ...but I'd have to spend 22 days with you. ha ha. I don't know...ha ha."

There was some other thing where he paid me a compliment, but with the "arm's length" disclaimer. (can't remember now what it was). But when we were outside I referenced it and the cruise thing and said "what's the deal with you?" and he said "I'm keeping you at bay I guess." I say "why?" and he says "Because I'm afraid....Afraid if we get back together I will want to leave again." I didn't say much. I think I just said "hmmm..." For a second, tears welled up, but the sadness was quickly replaced with the thought "that's why I'm gonna have to buy this house. You're an f'ing idiot" and I felt more annoyed than anything. I guess I could have said I was having the same fear, but I didn't want to get into a heavy duty R talk.

EDITED to add: OMG, I just remembered something else. He says to me "You have the nicest [body parts] I have ever seen, so far." I said ""So Far"? You are a total sh!t-head, you know that? "So far". What an a$$." He laughed. I think this goes along with the keeping me at bay thing. gah!

At some point during the evening, I said "What are you going to do when you push me away so much that I just give up and move on?" He looked at me sorta confused. I dropped it.

We played cribbage for the first time in AGES. (Used to do that all the time, so it was fun to play again.) He seemed to be battling himself through out the night; sort of a 'darn it, I like her, but I don't want to like her." I guess that goes along with giving a compliment but sort of blunting it to keep me at bay.

During dinner he says "I'm gonna be gone from Thursday to Saturday for a guys camping trip" (with a tone like it was news to me) and I said "Yeah, I know. Remember, I told you not to rent the Harley for that weekend because I was busy and roommate said you had a guys camping trip?" and he says "oh yeah...what are you doing?" and I explained the whole glass thing. I said I might stay over in my jeep friday and he got worried about me sleeping in the car. Awww. I think there will be other people camping out, so it should be okay...

At different times thru out the night (when he was doing a 'keep me at bay' action) I would think "dude, you are pushing it too far. Don't keep f'ing with me. You're gonna be sorry." Was I ready to verbalize that? No. More than likely, I won't fully verbalize it until it's too late. I am trying to drop hints now. If I say anything now, I am worried it will escalate things before I am emotionally ready. But I feel myself getting there. And I will attempt to keep an eye on my feelings so that I don't turn into the WAW...but......

[Dom R]

Was I ready to verbalize that? No. More than likely, I won't fully verbalize it until it's too late. I am trying to drop hints now. If I say anything now, I am worried it will escalate things before I am emotionally ready. But I feel myself getting there. And I will attempt to keep an eye on my feelings so that I don't turn into the WAW...but......

D.A.M.

he doesnt get "hints".

Say it as bluntly as you think it possible... .and that will be equivalent to a "hint", for him.

"I'm sick and tired of your crap. I'm about ready to dump your ass".

== "Hmm... she's giving me a hint that she's unhappy in the way I treat her"

[Sara]

My H and I used to play insult each other, and say things like "I should have run away from you the day I met you." It took us years to realize that saying things like that wasn't funny. It was mean. We don't do it anymore. You do need to tell him it isn't funny or endearing. I think he thinks it is.

[NikB]

Dom has it sooo right. What you think is blunt, he'll take as a hint.

How many LBS (especially men) go "She never said a WORD!! about being unhappy"??? Most of them. He's not gonna get it unless you're prety obvious about it.

Sara, another good point, he might think it's "cute" or something when it isn't.

OK I have no new thoughts tonight but hope it's OK to tag on to other good ones.

[MaxP]

Trixi,

Sometimes the gulf between the sexes is far greater than we would like to admit. Men (in general) are very direct and expect people to be direct in return. We don't take the time to try to decode messages because we expect someone who has a real issue to make it clear to us. Very clear. We also say and do things without realising the emotional impact, because we apply our own value system or are not so good at empathising. Until you hear your H echo back at you what you have said and then see some changes, sadly, there is a good chance your message might not have got through and been processed. Women are also far better at expressing themselves, saying what they feel and layering conversations. Sometimes men just won't pick up on these things.

I consider myself to be pretty sensitive to picking up messages as men go but it's quite a regular thing for me to miss the point or to say something that comes out badly where women are concerned! I don't mean any harm, but it happens.

For a long time after I separated from my W, I couldn't join the dots. I was utterly confused. It took ages for me to build a picture of my role in the downturn of our R. If I now write a list of signs of trouble from my W, some of the things I did and decisions I made in the last year, I feel horrified and angry at myself. What a fool we can sometimes be. Often these may seem very small, but they mount up. I just didn't see what was happening. If only we could go back and use a 2x4 on ourselves.
Men can also be very, very focused on something. Often something that they believe is vital to their role in the R, but all the time they are failing to meet their spouse's emotional needs.

So the lesson is that we are different and need to learn how to communicate across the divide. If there is something important to you, make it known, but make sure that it is clearly delivered and also acknowledged. It may seem like a pain in the backside to have to do that, but at least then you can be sure. Hopefully, when your H understands what you want he will respect your wishes.

Max

[Trixi]

Heya-
I guess I see H as being pretty 'smart' about things and he's pretty good at reading me.
I think I view what I am doing sort of like my prairie dogs. When they are getting annoyed, first their tail fluffs up and then they give a warning chirp or two. Then they might give a quick nip with a chirp and then...well, prepare to bleed profusely. At first, we didn't know how to read them, so we got bit a few times. But after awhile, we learned what they were saying and I rarely get bit. Last time was from the 'in tact' male who doesn't like my H and as I was petting him, my H said something and the prairie dog abruptly bit me.

ANYWAY, I feel like I am fluffing my tail and chirping a bit. I am not ready to bite him because this will cause a full on scene and it might blow the whole deal up. Make sense?

In the past two weeks, I have specifically said that I am losing patience and understanding; that my next "move" is back into the house; that he's about to lose his crown; that I looked into moving out of state; that he is living on borrowed time with regard to this situation continuing...I have implied that he is on the verge of pushing me away to the point of me giving up.
No, I think he is quite aware of the sitch- heck, he fancies himself "tormented" by it all; I think he is just going to keep doing this for as long as I let him.

So, how long will I let him? Good question. I don't know; we have a really good time together...Honestly, my problem is that I am scared to hear the answer if I say it's time to make up his mind. Because *obviously* he *wanted* me to live with him, I would be....OTOH, obviously, if he wanted a D, we wouldn't be seeing eachother.

He thinks HE'S tormented?! Sheesh!!!

[NikB]

In the past two weeks, I have specifically said that I am losing patience and understanding; that my next "move" is back into the house; that he's about to lose his crown; that I looked into moving out of state; that he is living on borrowed time with regard to this situation continuing...I have implied that he is on the verge of pushing me away to the point of me giving up.

I'm hoping the guys will chime in (Dom and Max, I'm sure you will!). But at least from my perspective.. yes you've SAID these things, but your actions haven't shown them at all. Your actions have continued to reinforce the "always here, always available, please give me some scraps of affection."

You've chirped, but you haven't fluffed your tail and I think that's causing your chirping to lose any credibility.

Dom said it best in your last thread:

He's still in "you should be grateful that you have me" mode.
And you're accepting that.

I think he is just going to keep doing this for as long as I let him.

Probably.

So, how long will I let him? Good question. I don't know; we have a really good time together...Honestly, my problem is that I am scared to hear the answer if I say it's time to make up his mind.

Here's what you aren't getting - continuing to let him is NOT the same as telling him it's time to make up his mind.

Take ACTION and see what happens.

Be a lot less available. ONLY be available when he earns it. Play harder to get.

I started to type my suggested ACTIONS and realized I already did it in your last thread, so I'm going to save myself some typing and copy/paste it over. So it'll look a little familiar but I'm being lazy.

I KNOW you're not ready to issue an "ultimatem" or break up with H. But, I don't think that's your only option at this point. Let's think about it - what COULD you do differently that might improve the R?

Some 180 ideas (hopefully some of the guys will chime in and give their 2 cents on what might be best):

- No R talks, or at least not constant R talks.
- Be LESS available. That doesn't mean go dark or dim, but be BUSY sometimes. Have plans that don't involve him a lot more often than you do. I know you like to spend a lot of time at home so this might be a bit tougher for you. If you have to, SCHEDULE time when you are dedicated to your glass work. If he wants to do something at that time, sorry, you're busy.

I'm not saying turn down every invite. Try turning down, say, 50% of his invites.. and do your best to accept the ones that don't come off as some sort of pitiful "I guess we can get together" ones either.

- DO NOT figure out what the two of you will do next time he offers to "hang out." Make a goal of say, a month, or 2 months, where HE has to figure it out. Make him do the work. If you see something you want to do, don't invite HIM as your first reaction. Find someone else who might enjoy going with you.

What do you think? Maybe make a 1 month goal of turning down 50% of his half-a$$ed invites, and not making the plans yourself? Sound do-able? I think it just might get you a different reaction from him.

[NikB]

Here's what you aren't getting - continuing to let him is NOT the same as telling him it's time to make up his mind.

And no wonder you aren't getting it when I said it so confusingly.

NOT continuing to let him go on as is, is what I meant.

Trying some different actions to see what impact they have on your R isn't the same as giving him that ultimatem, at all. And I think those actions give you a better shot at getting the answer you ultimately want.