Blog #2

[heatherg]

if fear was choking us down and not allowing us to be vulnerable enough to at the very least, face the TRUTH each of us were feeling, then how could we ever have truly good sex?


H and I have had a very rough few years...just within the last year have things smoothed over between us, but we have not recovered the intimacy....or perhaps we never had it to begin with, I'm not positive. I can say that sex was probably not as frequent as H would have liked in years past, but it was always really satisfying for both of us. Lately though, I've struggled a bit with feeling a connection and it's affected our sex life. A couple times I have felt very detached during sex with him, to the point where I couldn't even really hide it.
There is so much to that, but the short of it is intimacy, or lack thereof.

most men claim they would not/do not mind their woman looking at porn, but that is not actually true! They WOULD mind it, especially if she was sneaking around to do it

I totally agree with this. In previous discussions/arguments about porn, I've asked my H how he would feel if he found porn on my computer, pictures of naked guys, how would that make him feel? He says he doesn't know but doesn't think it would bother him. I know it would. He doesn't even want me to have a vibrator that's shaped like a penis, so I know it would bother him to know I was checking out and being turned on by other guys' naked bodies.

I don't let myself think about his porn habit too much because the emotional energy it consumes for me is more than I have to give. I've tried my best to take ownership of the things I can, the porn bothers me for many reasons and I've tried to tackle the reasons I can control, such as my own insecurity.

"I fantasize about OTHER people having great sex, but I myself do not have great sex, I only pleasure myself and watch THEM do it, but I am somehow not worthy of having great sex like the people on the screen are".

I don't really agree with this. I think humans are primitive where sex is concerned and watching other people have sex is a huge turn on. Watching porn as a couple can definitely turn things up a notch. It's watching porn solo and hiding it from one another and depending on it that I think kills the intimacy in a R.

My H actually told me he enjoys looking at beautiful women. I found a picture collection he has on his computer and the pictures I have found are just women-no men, no sex acts. The porn videos I have found are all women, penthouse, playboy, etc. The only porn video I found that had men in it was titled '18 and ready to fu@#'. Talk about adding insult to injury on that one. I don't think I would even mind so much if the stuff was just random people getting it on, but he apparently just loves naked women. Young ones. Lucky me.

[Delil@h]

Hey DQ~ just a quick note regarding Porn....

My H and I watch it together... it has never really been an issue .. excapt for when I was feeling very insecure...

His cheating days and thinking he was trying to compare me to them.

Yuck , bleh...

So I take it back even though we watched it together it sometimes did upset me.


those days thank GOD are long gone... and now he has no interest in it ....


Remember awhile back when I put it on for him and had stillettos on?
he preferred me over the "SHOW".
He even said honey That doesnt turn me on you do...


Just didnt want *YOU* to call me a "wuss" too.
*{WINK}*{WINK}
And I think I was in on your discussion with B~ on it too.
The more comfortable I grew to be with it ... the less interested he seemed in it?



Love ya,
~Ali

[goldeylox]

Now I just have to wonder ....

(wwwhhhhhhoooooooowhwhhhhhhooooossssshhhhhhhoooooowwwww)

(sound of tumbleweeds rolling through)

.... why no one else has word one to say about the topic?

Hmmm.....

oh well!

DQ

DQ, I must be repressed or something, because although I paid a visit to my local Target, I'm sitting here with my mouth hanging wide open.I believe my H is addicted to internet Porn, which makes him HIGHLY unattractive to me. After nearly 20 years of marriage, we've tried it all...viewing together, viewing apart, viewing in secret. I could literally take it or leave it (I have better things to do with my time) but H cannot go a single day without visiting. Blames it on me. What's up with that?
I get that guys like sex. No problem. But after years of being used for H's pleasure only, I just don't care anymore. Goldey's private thoughts, "Fine, here's your sex, now hurry up because I want to finish the laundry before I go to sleep." Peace.

[Bagheera]

I get that guys like sex. No problem. But after years of being used for H's pleasure only, I just don't care anymore. Goldey's private thoughts, "Fine, here's your sex, now hurry up because I want to finish the laundry before I go to sleep."

Oh, Goldy -- it pains me just to read the above statement.

Deep down, I know that your husband would love to be able to turn you on and pleasure you wonderfully in bed. It's a basic male desire (my wife would probably call it an 'obsession' in my case), and it is very painful when you can't do it --> you feel like a failure as a man. Being labeled as a 'bad lover,' by yourself or your spouse, makes a pretty deep wound in the male ego (particularly for men in 'machismo' cultures, such as your H's), and I would guess that his knee-jerk, defensive reaction has been to lash out and blame YOU for being cold, unresponsive, or what have you, while failing to educate and retrain himself.

Unfortunately, just as there are many women who are so caught up in their own point-of-view as to be completely unable to understand a man's POV, there are many men who are so caught up in their own POV regarding sex that they are completely unable to fathom the very different, and often intricate, female POV and approach to sex. Your husband, very honestly, doesn't have a clue. The pornography doesn't help, either, since it generally portrays only a very shallow, male viewpoint of sex: get hard, penetrate this and that for awhile, cum in her face, the end. He's allowed himself to become trapped in a 'model' of sex that simply doesn't work --> and doesn't know how, or that, it needs to be changed out for something better. EVERY man begins with this simplistic, male-oriented sex-script, and at some point in his life has to drop it in favor of what *really* works for a woman.

I don't know that, left to his own devices, he would ever 'wake up' and start to reeducate himself. Therefore, it may be up to you to literally take the bull by the horns (or other body parts) and teach him, once you've figured out for yourself what works for you. In one of your first posts, you wrote:

This morning, a nice cuddle and ML. I actually participated, and asked for what I wanted (physically). A first, I think!

This is the right path to take. Once the two of you start having some successes in truly mutually satisfying sex, the 'porn escape-hatch' will have less and less appeal to him. I personally find porn's narrow script rather boring when compared to the real thing, when that 'real thing' really works for both myself and my partner.

Take care,

Bagheera

[IC2]

My H and I watch it together... it has never really been an issue .. excapt for when I was feeling very insecure...

His cheating days and thinking he was trying to compare me to them.

DQ,

I don't really have a problem with porn...I can take it or leave it. Like you and your boyfriend, I don't view it without Miss IC and even at that, we don't view it that often....BUT what Alimari mentioned is one of the draw backs that I can see from porn...the insecure spouse or partner. I mean, lets face it...we're all not porn stars and the feeling of being compared to them can have an adverse effect on an insecure partner.


-IC

[DanceQueen]

Hello all....thanks for all the comments.

I had a great weekend and hope you all did as well. As usual, we had lots of great sex, kissing, played dress up, all that fun stuff.

I wanted to make a list of fun little "sex tips" and invite anyone else to share their own as well! These are not tips about skills or acts...just general little fun stuff.

*Temporary tattoos! There are vending machines (usually near the toys and candy and gum machines) in various supermarkets, which dispense temporary tattoos. They look very real these days! I buy some everytime I am at the stores that have them. First - it is fun to be like a kid, and not know which tattoo you are going to receive. (Will I get the skull and cross bones with a pirate hat, or the butterfly wrapped in barb wire?) And second, they can be very sexy and fun and best of all, TEMPORARY! They are a great addition to a sexy outfit, so if I am dressed like a goth girl tramp for sex some night, I can dig out a dark goth girl tattoo of roses and skulls...but if I am in a school girl outfit, I can dig out a unicorn tattoo! Placement is also fun. Put a tattoo in the right place, and you've got something fun to look at during your intimate times. Whee! Also....I like putting them on him, too. We girls like having something fun to look at too, sometimes. Just remember to take them off before a doctor's appointment or going to the gym! LOL!

*Hygiene! OK everyone knows, yeah yeah, hygiene...but really, HYGIENE. Really scrub up and thoroughly wash up down there! Front, back, and sideways! I run to the bathroom and do an additional wash up as soon as I know we are about to have sex, on top of my normal shower. And then of course, add something that smells nice, too.

*Email, Text....send suggestive text or emails to your partner every once in a while. Not every day or it loses some of its fun, but out of the blue makes them think "wow, what's gotten into him/her?"

*Stretch. Everyone needs to stretch, but most people don't do it. Being a gymnast, I was lucky enough to lay the groundwork to a lifetime of flexibility for myself, but I still must stretch. Do you know that your body stores toxins that are released when you stretch? And when you stretch, you oxenigate your muscles and your blood flow. This can cause temporary pain, but after you are done, you will feel a bit of a "high" from it. Stretch at least a little bit every day and by the time you are ready for sex, you will be more limber than you normally are.

*Shave, pluck, trim, etc. Most women are already doing all the shaving trimming and plucking. But men need to pay attention to this, too! My ex-h had some funky one inch long eyebrows that desperately needed to be cut or plucked. I used to beg him to do that. He refused. He thought it was "funny" that they "bothered me so much". Humph. And he wondered why I had lost my attraction to him? I'm just trying to make the point that women DO notice these things, especially since we are already plucking, shaving, waxing and trimming everything on our bodies. Ear hairs, nose hairs, unruly eyebrows - - those are top priority. But women also love it if you can at least "tame" the nether regions and I personally like it when my man also trims his armpits down to a short fur. Then I can nuzzle in it (remember, impeccible hygiene first) and its not so long that one hair may wrap around my neck.

- - - -

I will be back with more and as I said, please feel free to join in if anyone has one to share!

DQ

[Strong&Alive]

Do people understand how powerful the mind is? Do you know how powerful our thoughts are, particularly thoughts that are charged in any way? Thoughts actually preceed reality. You could even say that thoughts create reality. And no matter how you may want to tell yourself that your fantasies and thoughts are private and therefore should be "harmless", this is untrue. Thoughts are never private, no matter how you want to believe they are. They do not just "go nowhere". Thoughts are the catalyst of creation. They do "go somewhere" and they do cause creation.

So...when it comes down to viewing porn, the thoughts you are having DO MATTER. And what are you "saying" with your thoughts at that time? I mean really "saying", to the universe? To the rest of creation? To yourself and your self-image?

My opinion, is that when you are viewing porn for self-gratification alone, what you are "saying" with your thoughts is something like this:

"I fantasize about OTHER people having great sex, but I myself do not have great sex, I only pleasure myself and watch THEM do it, but I am somehow not worthy of having great sex like the people on the screen are".

???

Do you see why this is not condusive to helping YOU get any closer to good sex? It only reinforces the idea that you DO NOT have good sex, while others DO have it, and all you get to do is watch the video evidence. You are pummeling your mind with this idea every time you view porn alone. And then...that thought, which is extremely charged, goes forward into reality and starts its own creation....

If people really understood just how important ALL of your thoughts really are. And thoughts that work AGAINST your own self-esteem (even if you don't realize you are doing it) should be avoided!

And here is another thing...if you watch porn, but you would not be turned on by watching porn of YOURSELF (ie: you are insecure, overweight, don't like the way you look, don't have skills, etc), then again, where is there anything healthy about this? If you would not watch yourself on video and be turned on, then you have some work to do. Why salivate over SOMEONE else's fantasy, when you should be working toward creating and bringing to reality your OWN fantasies?

- - - - -

I know that many men feel that they are only turning to porn because their wife is not available to them. But (I am sorry) I don't buy that. It doesn't really matter if your wife is available to you sexually or not. You are still making that choice. You CAN masterbate without porn, you know, and maybe if you tried that, you could conjure up some really cool mental fantasies about YOURSELF - instead of about those stranger's bodies on the screen.

I feel that using porn by yourself is something that can quickly turn self-indulgent. And just like over-eating, being over-indulgent really doesn't make you feel better in the long run.

Being healthy makes you feel better. How about learning to have a healthy mind full of thoughts and fantasies that actually HELP you move toward better sex?

DQ,

I agree with absolutely every word of this. If there has been a "silver lining" to having to deal with my own SSM, its me becoming fundamentally (and life-changingly) aware of the power of the human mind and thoughts, and their place in lifting our spirit, and shaping our whole lives.

I've read not just The Secret but many of the other books it quotes from, and they all make the point you're making here.

It frankly still staggers me how little the average person understands this. A lot of people are superficially aware - they may recognize that person A has a confident "vibe", or that person B is "positive", or that person C is "full of energy" - but I think few people grasp that all of this - the vibe, the positivity, the energy - has to start in a person's mind, and that our thoughts are the key to everything in life:

Thoughts > Words > Actions > Results > Reactions > Beliefs > Thoughts... and so on.

Hence why so many people on this Board talk of "spirals" and "patterns" and "ruts".

My own recovery started effectively with a decision that my life "will" get better and I "will" either improve my marriage or leave. The will is like a muscle - its there even if its not been used for a long time - and it gets stronger with exercise.

But going back to your specific example, there was a stage during my SSM when I looked at porn very heavily. Looking back, I've now absolutely no doubt that I was constructing a false view of sex and intimacy as well as a deprived view of myself. One that carried through into my thoughts, words and actions.

Porn is such a big subject that its difficult to know where to start. I don't buy the "it's all evil" line - there are many different kinds etc. The essential point is why am I looking at it? If its for some ideas to spice up an existing sex life, maybe that's OK.

But... if its as an escape, then that is harmful. Something I read by Robert Glover has stayed with me - that by watching porn a man is telling the Universe that he doesn't deserve to have great sex for real. Porn is not real, and the more a man watches the less he remains in touch with real emotions, real women and real sex. He gets lazy and depressed.

And porn can definitely be addictive - it can easily swallow up hours if not days.

It also - as you have rightly pointed out on another thread - depletes precious "sexual energy". Sexual energy, its uses and its misuses, probably deserves a thread in its own right. Frequently, after I had used porn heavily I often felt spent and depleted, and in some way empty - less of a man perhaps. Sexual energy is definitely a big topic.

I have to say, I still look at porn occasionally, but I'm much more aware of the "why". And your post is a reminder of that.

Linking the two topics i.e. porn and thoughts, in a different way, I am struck by how much of the media - newspapers, magazines, television, websites etc - is "pornographic" in the sense of voyeuristically "reporting" on the lifestyles of the rich and famous. The current for "celebrity" gossip magazines is a case in point. Its a good thing to read about someone's life achievements for inspiration in one's own. But... to pore over the details of their house, their cars, their partner, their holiday, what they earn, what they eat and drink on a night out etc. Very harmful if all it does is reinforce negative thoughts such as "I will never amount to anything", "I'll never have a great life", "why have they got lots of money and I've got none?". I call it "celebrity/lifestyle porn" and wonder what kind of society created it and/or will be created by it. Rant over!

Thanks again for your provocative thoughts, DQ.

S&A

[DanceQueen]

Thanks for your post, S&A. You are clearly a genius, as you agree with me. LOL! Just kidding.

But really, I have actually known the power of my own mind since I was a young child....so I am lucky to have gotten very good at using it by now. Not that I don't still falter...but I just know now that every thought we have is actually a wish. And every thought is heard. And every thought creates reality. So to be sure, keep your thoughts on things that you really WANT to happen, not things that depress you.

My own sex life being great now is also a result of my own mind's power....it took many years...but that is a different story which will have to wait for now. In the meantime, yes, I do wish everyone could really understand how important their thougths are. They are not idle. They always create.

DQ

[Strong&Alive]

You are clearly a genius, as you agree with me. LOL! Just kidding.

No, you were right the first time. I am indeed a genius!

S&A

[Bagheera]

*Shave, pluck, trim, etc. Most women are already doing all the shaving trimming and plucking. But men need to pay attention to this, too!...But women also love it if you can at least "tame" the nether regions....

In that region, my own rule of thumb for the past few months has been: if I want my partner's mouth to go there, I shave it. And where I leave the hair, it gets trimmed.

It works.

One of the ironic indications of my SSM recover: I grew a beard in one place (my face) and lost the beard in another.

The things I do for love...

-- B.