Married only 3 years, together 5, no kids. We have always had volatile fights. That's the sad part. We love each other & yes, we've had great times, but we've always had escalating fights that are embarassing, shameful, and overall destructive to our relationship. Our fights were physical at one point, but haven't been physical for the past year (until 2 weekends ago). But where our fights are different from probably most people's is that they get out of hand w/ name-calling, insults, general contempt, throwing everything into the argument, screaming in front of friends/ family/ neighbors, and just genearlly being mean. And the fights are ALWAYS over stupid stuff.
We both have good jobs, we live in a nice home, we're responsible people. Neither of us has cheated nor have we ever seriously contemplated cheating. But the emotional fights have beaten us down and they have broken us apart. We know what the right way to fight is supposed to be, but when we're provoked we can't seem to do the right thing. We've been in individual counseling since Jan and joint marital counseling since April (which, in my opinon, isn't long enough to say "its not working" I feel differently -- I think it's because we haven't been in counseling together on a steady basis that we've encountered so much trauma in the past month. And I also think that maybe the process of counseling is dredging up so much stuff that it's just getting harder to get through it, but that the reward is on the other side.
I accept responsiblity for all of the things that I have done and said to hurt Mike. I hate the fact that we have wounded each other so deeply through our words over all of the time that we've known each other. It's like we're two bloody soliders with gaping wounds that never heal. I think we both have a hard time letting go of past hurts & moving on. All I want to do is kiss Mike's wounds & let him heal... but I guess the hard thing is that I'm wounded by him... and because I hurt, when he comes after me verbally it's hard to put the hurt aside. I have done MANY things that I regret... MANY things throughout our relationship that give him reason to want to leave me -- 4 years ago I threatened suicide when we had a bad fight, I have since threatened divorce twice, and most recently I threatened a separation but then tried to "take it back". But I got what I asked for because Mike left me a week ago & moved to his parents.
It's been exactly a week and it's been horrible. I have been reading this board so I know the rest of you have all felt this way where you want to call them, IM them, text them, email them, etc. I've done all those things to the point where WAS was saying that I was "smothering" him. Ironically, the day he told me I was smothering him I had only texted him to tell him I was still committed him & called him & left a VM to try to instill hope in him.
Mike says that he has no idea how long this separation is for, he has no plans to check back in with me, & he says he's "thinking" and trying to figure out if he wants to divorce me. Yesterday I called him about finances & got into a bit of talk about how long does he see this separation being & he got mad at me & ended up telling me that he doesn't believe in our marriage anymore. I hung up the phone in tears, it was awful to hear. Then he IM'ed me at work to say that he wanted to tell me that he was sorry to be harsh with me but he doesn't feel like we have any hope, he's beat up from trying, he's sick of having anxiety even when we're getting along thinking about the next time we won't get along, we've tried everything, we've gone to cousenling (twice), he's read a relationship book, etc. Then I tried to tell him to be hopeful, that I know we can get through it, I tried to be the cheerleader, etc -- but every positive thing I said was met w/ him saying that I'm not being realistic, we've been on thin ice for a long time, he doesn't want to go on this way, he doesn't think we can change, our relationship has been bad before we even got married. Worse yet is that Mike used to be the cheerleader in our relationship & I was the one who was always saying that we were doomed, things were so bad, etc... and now this has completley reversed itself. I feel bad for bringing about so much emotional damage to him (although at the same time I feel so injusticed by all of his name-calling, cursing, over-reacting towards me)
I so much want to try to convice him to have hope and I've broken all of the DB rules & am thinking about breaking them right now (which is why I'm typing here vs calling him). I have called him, IMed him, texted him, emailed his mom, etc. I haven't done any of these things incessantly, but have still done them once or twice a day. this is sheer hell just not being able to connect with him & tell him that I recognize my wrongs & that I will work on changing my ways.
Despite the fact that we've had awful fights, and despite the fact that we've been strained for quite some time, I'm not ready to give up on us. I believe that we married for the right reasons and that we are married in the eyes of God. I take our vows seriously, I don't want to give up on us. I definitely feel the same frustration that Mike feels in that we're trying, we're trying, we're trying, we both know the way we're supposed to act towards each other, yet we can't seem to do it. It is so draining. So I completely understand how he feels - it's frustrating, it's emotionally tiring, and then we both start to compare ourselves to other couples & think "what's wrong with us?" "why can't we be as happy as they are?" I have hurt Mike very very deeply by saying that I've already given up on us. In counseling a few weeks ago I said "I can't do this anymore" and while I truly didn't mean that I couldn't be married anymore, it was int erpreted that way and Mike walked out. He thought I meant it was over. I just kept saying that I couldn't do this anymore. But what I mean is I know that I can't do all of this fighting anymore, I don't want to live the rest of my life this way. And I agree with Mike that we're so bogged down in this despair that we feel like there may not be any hope.
I've asked God to intercede for us, to give us peace, to help strengthen our marriage. Mike doesn't believe in my newfound spirituality and doesn't believe in asking God to help our marriage. But I don't know what else to do. I know God brought us together for a reason. We gave each other the sacrament of marriage in the presence of God. All of this fighting, etc, may be God's way of getting us to both grow to a better, more mature place. Or maybe he's given us these trials so that we both start to seek Him out together. I hope I don't sound like a holy-roller, but when we started having all of these problems, I really didn't know what to do so I started attending church classes to deepen my faith to help me get through this. And I do believe in our marriage and that everything that God gi ves us happens for a reason and that God can help us get through this. While Mike respects my faith, he doesn't share it, and I'm sad to say that I think that this has torn us even further apart. When I said to Mike that he & I share the same values, he said that no we don't, he doens't believe in all of the God stuff like I do.
I've been writing in a word document while I'm at work, as if I'm writing to Mike. I was thinking about sending it to him so he'll see how sorry I am for all of the things that I did to contribute to this separation & how I recognize my faults & am willing to change.
Please weigh in on this, I'm so lost right now and I get absolutely panicked when I think that this may not work out & that he may be consulting a lawyer right now. All I want to do is call him & talk to him...
Starbuck, Very nice name. BSG fan? I'm sorry your here but you come to the right place. First off if you haven't read the book then go out and do it. Please! Read it cover to cover do the exercises and start DB'n To initiate a change you need to start with you. As for talking to him dont unless its about finaces or house matters etc. Anything else and you risk driving him further away. Read the book and keep your chin up!
Last edited by Gman3388; 08/14/0808:44 PM.
Gman Me 40 W 30 kids B 11 B 10 D 8 Been here off and on since 06. PA Confirmed Dec 08.. With God, anything is possible. Do or do not there is no try. Sometimes you have to roll the hard six...
Welcome (again I know not where we want to be) to the boards. Just to weigh in here as someone who also tends to pursue, who has posted a few times about whether I should write a letter...DON'T do this. It's only been 1 week, and you need to let the dust settle. It's too new to feel like there is no hope. Have you spoken to a DB coach yet? Is this something that you would consider doing? I have done this a few times, and while my situation is not great, it has at least given me clarity into my own actions, and if I can only learn to follow the coach's suggestions, I might be able to make some progress.
Your H won't believe you if you write a letter saying you are willing to change. You are going to have to show him change, and this will probably take time. It depends on the situation. Seems like some people see drastic differences in weeks, while other people are here for years. Have you tried validating your H's feelings? Do you have any reason for contact over the next couple of weeks? Let him cool down for awhile, if you want the advice of someone who has never been very good at this...it's really damaging to pursue someone who wants to be left alone.
As Gman said, read the DR book if you haven't yet. Also make yourself some very small, yet achievable goals to work toward.
Hope you feel a little bit better soon,
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
You have found a good place her...I can't even begin to tell you how much compassion and help I've had in my short time from people here.
I too had (keyword, had) a very volatile temper and I said and did very stupid things with arguing with my wife. I think one thing you can do to improve yourself in the short term is to figure out where this anger originates, if it's related to something in your past or what the root cause is. It takes a lot of self reflection and sometimes it's not comfortable to peel back the layers of yourself and see that there are some portions you really don't like. I did that and I didn't like what I was seeing, and that's probably what my wife was seeing. One book I would recommend for this is "When Anger Hurts Your relationship" and another I'm reading now is Why Can't you read my mind, but I've set this aside for now because I'm reading DR.
Self reflection helped me to realize the root of my anger, and also to think back on some of our more recent arguments. I am a very competetive person, and I think I always viewed a fight with the W as something I needed to win and she was the enemy. WRONG approach. I'd also recommend going to see a therapist to help with your anger and managing it better. I learning a lot on my own, but in talking with him he validated much of what I discovered about myself and also brought up some points I hadn't even considered.
It's good that you are here, that shows your desire to make yourself a better person and in doing so hopefully having the added benefit of saving your R and your M. Keep your head up!
Last edited by sadincolorado; 08/17/0804:41 AM.
H - 37 (me) W - 34 M - almost 8 years, Dated 6 LYBNILWY - 7/23/2008 W says nothing can save the M - 8/05/2008, 8/17/2008 W admits E attraction with OM - 8/05/2008 no kids - four cats Previous post: What to do
Starbuck: It's good that you got all that out in the open in your first post - but now it's time to set aside a lot of what you've been doing and prepare yourself for some serious growth.
I'm sorry that you're here - but I can tell you that there's no better place for you to share your thoughts. For starters - stop chasing, stop saying I love you, stop throwing need at him -any time you say or express your love/need right now you are basically pushing him further away, not paying enough attention to yourself, and you're also doing all of the thinking about your R/M so that he doesn't have to...
My W and I had(have?) a very similar situation to yours - in terms of anger, tempers, insults, etc...with that aside, where it comes from in your past is not the focus here - and it can't be the focus as you move forward. Instead, the focus will have to be on strengthening yourself - while learning new ways to validate what your H says/feels/etc.
Pick up a copy of Divorce Remedy as soon as you can -- read and post on other people's threads - dive in and start sharing your thoughts, asking questions, and allow yourself the difficult challenge of making and learning from your mistakes...DBing is tough - maybe one of the toughest things you'll have done up to this point in your life - and one of the main things to remember is that you cannot improve your marriage...........without first improving yourself.
A lot of the actions you described would come across as desperate - and desperate just isn't attractive - self-confidence and inner-strength, however, is attractive.
Start reading more here...and tell us more about you - and your goals - the solutions you can imagine for improving yourself - and the solutions you can come up with for your interactions with your M. One big suggestion I would offer for now - is stop pursuing him, stop the texting, stop being needy - stop putting pressure on him - it will only backfire.
If you've argued a lot - consider where it happens, why, over what kinds of issues, and think about some 180s you can do.
Starbuck: Looking at the title of your thread something just occured to me - it's not hopeless- but you'll have to rethink and redefine what you think of as hope. Hoping to get back the M you had won't work - since that's what brought you here - hoping to change his mind won't work - since he's already stepped into a different mindset - hoping for a miracle won't do - but learning to work and hoping to learn as much as you can from others here - that will start to make profound changes in you - that will impact you for the rest of your life - and, I expect, give you a more lasting sense of hope than you've had before.
