Giving up....why not...he did!

[Changed Woman]

So, H dropped D off last night and was his normal distant self. He scurried for the door after I gave him the leftovers I packed for him. I know I'm not supposed to pursue him, but come on...it's so hard. Sooo...I stopped him at the door and said, can I get a little smooch? He gives me a little kiss and then mentions something about not wanting to go back and forth.

Note: We were separated before and almost immediately after he moved out last time we started dating eachother again. In our current situation he often mentions that he doesn't want to do that again because we will find ourselves in the same place and will have wasted more time. That it's too late....blah blah blah.

He also asks if this is why I'm being nice to him. I ask him what he means...he says are you only nice to me because you are horny. I say I'm nice to you because I like you and because I wasn't so nice to you before. He says...both of us weren't nice to eachother. What the hell does that mean? Then he says he needs to go home...I say this is your home (I know I know...dumb response)...he shakes his head and says it never felt like my home. Again...what is going on in his head???


Soooooooo..anyway, I did let him know my sister (not my favorite person) is in town and that she keeps asking me probing questions about him (she doesn't know we aren't together and I don't feel like telling her...have even instructed my Dad not to tell her). She asked about whether or not he was going to be able to make our "family dinner" on Sunday. So we chat about this a little and I ask him if he would go to dinner on Sunday. He says "I don't know"...."when your bro was in the hospital you told me it would be inappropriate to go and visit him"..."if I'm not good enough for that then why would I be good enough to have dinner". I reply with "in my book you are good enough for anything". He says "not when your bro was in the hospital I wasn't".

Another note here: my bro was in the hospital a couple of weeks ago...it was very scary for me as he had just gotten out of the hospital after being in for over 3 months. Almost died several times he was so ill. I was on the phone with SIL when she was giving me the news that bro was back in the hospital and H called on my cell. I was pretty shaken and distraught so when he asked if it would be "appropriate" for him to come see my bro, I said...I didn't think so...that I didn't know what was appropriate anymore. This is mainly because I didn't know how my family would react...only half of them know what's going on between us and I didn't want H to receive a mixed reception. At any rate, during our convo last night I tried to explain that I wasn't thinking all that clearly when bro was in the hospital and that I had actually asked my bro when I went to visit him about whether or not he would want to see H and he said..."sure I would...maybe he needs someone to talk to". H goes on to say..."I'm good enough to come over here and get you off and get myself off, but not good enough for your family". GRRRRRR...these conversations are so frustrating. Sooo..since he said he didn't know about dinner on Sunday I decided to leave that subject alone and see how things are on Sunday...maybe I will invite him again.

Anyway, just free thinking now...H seems very concerned about how my family feels about him. Will say things like...I know your family would be mean to me again...I remember how your SIL was when we got back together last time...then he'll say..."I don't care what people think anymore...I have to make myself happy". What does this mean? Does it mean that he's actually thought about what it would be like to get back together...or what?

Also, is the sex thing just him "servicing me"??????

Any feedback would be much appreciated...H keeps saying "if you need to move on I understand" and then when I ask him if that's what he wants he says "I don't know". WTF????? HELP!

[Dom R]

He says...both of us weren't nice to eachother. What the hell does that mean? Then he says he needs to go home...I say this is your home (I know I know...dumb response)...he shakes his head and says it never felt like my home. Again...what is going on in his head???

i'd suggest... that you ask him.
Ask him why it "never felt like his home".
Ask him what was missing for him. Or what was too much.

Also, is the sex thing just him "servicing me"??????

In some ways, you shouldnt worry about that. If you enjoy it, and he's "ok" with giving it to you... then I suggest that you just be really, really happy and appreciative when he chooses to do that "for you". So long as it doesnt seem like he is "sacrificing" anything, or gives that attitude.
Lets be honest.. except for very extreme cases, when a guy has sex, he enjoys it. We're fairly simple creatures Your H probably doesnt want to admit that he enjoys it too.

But certainly also, give him lots of non-sexual appreciation. Clearly, this is a worry for him. So... reassure him there too.

there's a fine line between "pursuing", and.... Umm... "being available"? Sounds like your husband actually wants you to be "available" to him. it sounds like he wants to pursue you himself, but for some reason, doesnt feel quite comfortable doing so.

So... i might suggest to keep giving him opportunities to do so, but without pushing it. "opportunities", rather than "obligations", and you need to be ok on those times he declines an opportunity.

i havent followed your story much.. but it sounds to me like your husband is actually fairly "close" to you still. You are very lucky.

he's understandably gunshy about "the last time". So... take things slow, and figure out for yourself what "doing it right this time" would mean?

[Changed Woman]

Thanks, Dom! I wish I felt more "lucky". I so want the opportunity to do it right this time...I think it would help for us to go to a pro marriage therapist together, but he won't even consider the thought.

[Changed Woman]

Freakin out here! H went to Reno with "friends". I cannot stop thinking about how he is a person that needs attention and will find it with someone else. Ohhhhhhhhh...My Lord! This is killing me. Will I ever have my family back

[JenInVen]

Oh please don't think about it that way! You'll have yourself in a fit all weekend. Think of it this way: it'll give him a chance to miss you.

He hasn't found someone else while you've been S right? So, why would he find it somewhere else now like in Reno? You know your H better than anyone. When you really use your heart to think about this what does it tell you? When you've put all the negative thoughts aside what do you "know"?

I know how you feel believe me I do. My XH was planning on going to the beach with D and "friends" and all I could do was panic.

Try and do something tomorrow with your D to keep your mind off his trip. If you keep busy then the time will go fast and the wekkend will be over.

[Changed Woman]

Thanks, Jen...I'll try and put it out of my mind, but it's so hard.

Today was really difficult I can't say I know anything about him anymore and it hurts me a lot. I keep going over in my mind how he kissed me good night and told me he loved me the night before I came home from work and he told me he was moving out and already had a house rented. Two days before he dropped this bomb he actually made a special call to me at work to make sure that when we'd hung up during an earlier conversation I had heard him say he loved me. I am so hurt and confused and don't know which end is up.

[JenInVen]

Hi...this might help...Its a bit long but it talks about 3 ways of thinking/mind. It's used for people with Borderline Personality Disorder but I think it helps a lot for us going through DB. Let me know what you think

Reasonable mind
Facts and common sense are the framework of reasonable mind. You are in reasonable mind when you think logically and rationally. This intellectual or scientific state of mind defines reality in terms of facts, numbers, equations, or cause and effect. Whether balancing your checkbook, baking a cake or working a crossword puzzle, you need the knowledge of reasonable mind.

Reasonable mind is important to learning skills. You need to understand how a skill works and when to apply it. Reasonable mind is a storehouse of information, helping you define a problem objectively and determine a solution. To use skills, you need to know what the different skills are, and how to call them forth when you need them. For example, to regulate emotions skillfully, you must be able to name them, understand what events and interpretations prompt certain emotions, know what emotions feel like, what emotions compel you to do, and their aftereffects. The more you know and the more you practice the stronger reasonable mind becomes.

Reasonable mind is much easier when you are healthy, strong, sober, rested and fed but much harder when you are sick, weak, stoned, tired, or hungry. Emotion mind starts to take over when you are stressed or don’t feel well.

Although, reasonable mind is critical to dealing with reality, many of life’s problems have an emotional aspect.


[edit] Emotion mind
If reasonable mind runs "cool" then emotion mind runs "hot." Passionate, extreme, and intense reactions in emotion mind make reasonable, logical thinking difficult. When an emotional state controls your thinking and behavior, emotion mind has taken over. Acting the way you feel is how emotion mind behaves. Emotion mind can flood your system with energy in anger or zap your energy in depression. Impulsively acting the way you feel can lead to out of control behavior creating chaos, hurt feelings, and more problems. Emotion mind tends to be irresponsible, careless, mindless, impulsive, and impatient. Strong emotions distort facts, magnify excuses, and shrink your perception of consequences.

Of course, certain amount of emotion mind can be beneficial. Intense love is a motivation for intimate relationships. Intense devotion or desire motivates staying with very hard tasks and sacrificing oneself for others. Mothers running through fires to save their children are in emotion mind. People high in emotion mind are often passionate about people, causes, and beliefs - these are the dramatic, fun people of the world.

Misery and distress are emotional reactions to problems in living that make a difficult situation worse. You can, however, learn to use emotion and logic together concert to improve your quality of life. This is the goal of Wise Mind.


[edit] Wise Mind
Wise Mind is the active integration of Emotional Mind and Reasonable Mind. Wise Mind brings together the logic of reasonable mind and the sensitivity of emotional mind to a serene state of mind. When you relate what you know (your smarts) to your problems (what hurts) you are being skillful and in Wise Mind. Wise Mind joins what you know to your problems. Your effort to link your problems causing misery and distress with your reasonable, logical abilities is the basis of skillfulness and Wise Mind. But Wise Mind is more than this too; the magic of Wise Mind is intuition.

Intuition understands the meaning, significance, or truth of an event, without having to analyze it intellectually. Such intuitive knowing combines emotional experiencing and logical analysis, yet goes beyond them. Sometimes emotion can masquerade as intuition. You feel certain you "know." If this "knowing" is intuitive it will still be valid when examined without the emotion of the moment. A calm certainty validates your intuition, helping you discern whether your certainty is emotionally biased or truly intuitive. Intuition has qualities of direct experience and immediate recognition, with the roots of reason and experience.

As you use your skills, you learn to act intuitively out of Wise Mind. Wise Mind is similar to intuition (or, perhaps, intuition is similar to Wise Mind). Acting intuitively out of Wise Mind, you trust that you know beyond what you think and feel. This takes flexibility, imagination, and open-mindedness. Awareness, in general, nurtures Wise Mind. Polarized thinking and a rigid worldview interfere with Wise Mind.

A way to become wise is to practice being wise. Such practice requires dedication to learning skills. Practice identifying and solving your problems of living. Some problems, of course, are quite easy and involve little more than writing a to-do list and following through on your plan. Everybody has problems in living. Successful people are better at accepting what they cannot change and changing the things they can. These successful people are informed with knowledge, armed with experience, and guided by intuition. Be willing to bring together the problems of living with your experience, knowledge and intuition.

Wisdom grows when you use your senses, develop your mind, and learn skills. Wisdom takes work. Start working by learning core mindfulness skills, interpersonal effectiveness skills, emotion regulation skills, and distress tolerance skills.

Wisdom, Wise Mind, or wise knowing depends on integration of all ways of knowing something: knowing by observing, knowing by analyzing logically, knowing by what you experience in your bodies (kinetic and sensory experience), knowing by learning and experience, and knowing by intuition. Knowing in these ways develops with awareness and awareness expands as you observe, analyze experience, learn, and intuit. By exploring the various ways of knowing and becoming more aware, you develop a sense of wholeness, continuity and coherence.

Wise Mind is like riding a bike, which takes effort, balance, and steering. You can learn Wise Mind, like you learned to ride a bike, only by experience. Just like you must pedal to start a bike rolling you must be willing to expend a little extra effort to initiate Wise Mind. As you would fall over if you were too far to one side or another on a bike, find Wise Mind by making the effort to find the balance of your emotions and thinking. Intuition steers you toward Wise Mind. The negative emotions (anxiety, depression, anger, shame, and guilt) are like putting on the brakes. Like you can jump on a bike and ride, you can learn to activate wise mind and do the best you can.

As you bring Wise Mind skills to the problems in living you will develop mastery. Mastery, the feeling of being competent and under control, does NOT mean you won’t make mistakes. Mastery is the attitude of bringing your skills to your problems in living.

Sometimes you may access wisdom when suddenly confronted by another person and stay calm under pressure. Sometimes you may find that in the midst of crisis you intuitively know the right thing to do. Sometimes approaching a difficult problem generates an insight that unlocks an inner door. Sometimes Wise Mind is seeing the whole picture not just the parts. Sometimes when faced with a difficult dilemma, Wise Mind reveals a clear choice.

You will develop self-agency and self-awareness as you develop mindfulness, regulate your emotions, are effective interpersonally, and tolerate distress. Self-agency is the feeling you have when you are in control of your own behavior. Rather than feeling your behavior just happens, self-agency owns the behavior and takes responsibility for it. Self-awareness is the sense you have that your different roles, feelings, attitudes, and mental states fit together coherently.

[JenInVen]

and to end...

[edit] Meditation and Wise Mind
Mindfulness exercises like meditation develop inner calm, emotional control, perseverance, and a strong sense of self. Herbert Benson, MD of Harvard Medical School was one of the first to research the therapeutic value of meditation. He found that meditation could elicit what he called the "Relaxation Response," which is the physiological opposite of stress and anxiety. Meditation heals the damage of stress. One of the simplest meditation exercises is to follow your breathing. When you meditate on your breath, you can find Wise Mind in the physical center found at the bottom of your inhalation. You can develop the ability to find your center during meditation and get to know this calm centered place well. If you learn where your center is and how it feels, you can go to this place, confident that you are responding in Wise Mind. Although meditation may be unfamiliar, you can cultivate the ability to be mindful.

Meditation and mindfulness develop your ability to observe what is going on within yourself in any situation. One way that people commonly experience this is to step back from one’s thoughts and feelings and release your attachment to these mental phenomena. The goal here is to reflect on your thinking and feeling, independent of the circumstances, observing what is going on in one’s mind like watching clouds drift through the sky.

Qualities of Wise Mind

Wise Mind is calm. It is almost always quiet and peaceful. When change or acceptance is necessary Wise mind is the serenity of knowing which course to take. Wise Mind is not trapped in all-or-nothing thinking and can focus on what is effective and functional.

In Wise Mind, you are in control of emotional mind. Behavior is not mood dependent (controlled by one’s emotions) but at the service of one’s inner wisdom. Eventually, objective self-observation and self-description are attainable from this slightly detached point of view. In fact, you can learn to experience extreme emotions like anger or fear while staying in Wise Mind. This takes lots of practice – for everybody. Likewise, in Wise Mind, you are able to access the knowledge of reasonable mind.

Wise Mind is courageous, i.e. feels scared but does what is needed in the situation anyway. Willingness is doing what is needed in each situation. Willingness often requires courage.

Wise Mind is confident. Self-confidence is knowing you can handle whatever problems in life comes along. When Wise Mind becomes clear, fear disappears. Wise Mind knows you are doing the best you can under the circumstances. When you skilfully approach your problems causing misery and distress, you are in Wise Mind and doing the best you can.

Clear and coherent sense of self: In Wise Mind, you can maintain your own feelings, opinions and decisions when around others.

Self-description, a core mindfulness skill, helps you know yourself and resist unhealthy urges to conform to social pressure and change one’s mind. At the same time, you are strong enough not to be defensive when presented with alternative views that warrant your consideration. You can see more clearly who you are when you are quiet and peaceful.

Self-observation develops self-understanding and accurate perception. The opposite of “automatic pilot” or doing something without thinking. Wise Mind is “being in the present on purpose.”

Through mindfulness, you will develop the skills to access your Wise Mind. With Wise Mind as the basis for problem solving, you will improve the quality of your life.

[Changed Woman]

What I find interesting about all this is that I think when it comes to my work I am very in touch with my "wise mind". I can be scared or concerned about a situation, but my mind is always able to go through the process of identifying a solution for my issue. It is matters of the heart, however, where I don't seem to have the ability to tap into my wise mind...not even a little bit. I wonder if meditation would help. I keep trying to pray and then I find that I can't stay focused long enough to finish my prayer...my mind wonders like crazy.

Thanks, Jen! I appreciate this

[Changed Woman]

So haven't heard one word from H since yesterday at 2:30 when he said he was going to Reno. Very bummed out by that

All this astrology talk has my mind boggled It's so facinating though.