On the bumpy road towards found...

[pisces9]

"... later yelling at me & threatening to throw his phone out the window, then to crying and not wanting to get off the phone..."

wow- i didnt know it was this extreme..has it always been like this?

thats great you have plans to keep yourself healthy and active- i like that idea of planning each hour...how does it work?

[iamlost]

"... later yelling at me & threatening to throw his phone out the window, then to crying and not wanting to get off the phone..."

wow- i didnt know it was this extreme..has it always been like this?

We've always had somewhat of a tumultuous R, but not usually that extreme, no. H NEVER usually cries, but he's cried several times with me since the bomb. I'm no longer as much of a hothead (thanks to DB) and he is much more of one, with more erratic swings.

I think ML just sent him into a major tailspin of confusion over his own feelings, and he just needed to yell at me, I suppose to better convince me and himself that it was a mistake, we're over, to create distance again, but then lament when I completely agreed with him. These experiences with him have taught me that completely agreeing with him about everything is the only way to derail his anger.

thats great you have plans to keep yourself healthy and active- i like that idea of planning each hour...how does it work?

You take a piece of paper and write out two columns for each day and plan your activities hour by hour, you can even predict how much you will like or dislike doing each one. Then you go back at the end of the day and write down what you actually did hour by hour, and rate how much you actually liked or disliked doing each one, and then compare.

What I like about it is that you are consciously thinking about what you do each day and what it means to you/the pleasure it brings you.

I'll let you know how it goes...:)

[I'mstillhopeful]

Hi i,
Thanks for visiting my thread a while back. Have you had any contact with H since your anniversary?

[pisces9]

how are you lost?

[iamlost]

Hi Hopeful and Pisces,

I haven't heard from my H since Thursday am. I found out some interesting things in the meantime. I did some research on mood swings, since his mood swings were a little wild on Thurs especially.

Found out some VERY intriguing info...well at least to me. ; )

I stumbled on this medical information that mood swings can be caused by dopamine levels in the brain. I already knew that H's sexual issues might be related to dopamine, since dopamine is the most important neurotransmitter involved in orgasm, and the illness he had has been know to be related to dopamine depletion (which is why I believe it to be mostly psychological now).

Well, it also turns out that research has shown that acupuncture can (further) inhibit release of dopamine in the body. This can actually help some people, but if that person already has low levels of dopamine...The doctor he began going to regularly right before he started feeling "indifferent and resentful" to our M is...you guessed it, alternative medicine using acupuncture. He was getting acupuncture every week.

The symptoms of dopamine depletion are exactly in line with how he's been feeling/acting: you can't experience feelings of love or joy, instead you feel apathetic, like you want to escape, depressed. You can't deal with any demands being made on you--you feel smothered. And you tend to act out in ways desperate to stimulate a dopamine rush--alcohol abuse, risky behavior. Mood swings ensue.

Plus, if anything, his sexual issues have not gotten better and have probably gotten worse in the last months. He gives me a uh, self-love report sometimes if I ask about his health and it hasn't been that good.

H told me that how he felt leading up to the bomb was something that had been simmering under the surface of every relationship that he's had since his illness, and suddenly it became overwhelming in the couple months leading up to the bomb (right when he started getting regular acupuncture).

My current theory is that acupuncture may have made what was a relatively low-level dopamine depletion in my H even worse. It's apparently VERY common for people with dopamine depletion to blame their partners for their apathetic feelings, because it is a "love chemical"--necessary for orgasm, and peaks at orgasm.

And guess what--he had acupuncture on Thursday morning right before we talked!

I wrote him an e-mail telling him all this in the nicest way possible--told him that I hope he took it in the spirit that it was intended, that I wanted him to be happy and healthy, and in an undiagnosing, not "this is what's wrong with you" way.

I really think that he needs to see a doctor who knows about this stuff, and it would be worth at least trying some dopamine-producing kind of treatment. But that is up to him, I told him what I found out and that's all I can do.

But besides ALL THAT, I had a really good weekend. I feel good about myself and my life lately. I can honestly feel like the work I'm doing on my self-esteem is helping, and I'm finding a lot more pleasure in daily life.

So, yay! : )

[pisces9]

wow- alternative medicine has its place but it can be overdone just like anything else. that is amazing you found that info...

i stopped seeing my acupuncturist bc i felt too reliant on it...i think anything in moderation is ok- but from what you are saying it can even be harmful which most people dont think.

i am proud of you for telling him. but he may react poorly and think you are trying to fix him.

it sounds like you are detached enough to separate from his negative emotions and be yourself and do your own thing.

it must have been some sort of relief to read that info.

[iamlost]

The only thing that I would say is that there is no clinical evidence that acupuncture has any effect on the body at all

You're right that there's been no studies that show acupuncture inhibits dopamine in humans. However, clinical studies in animals are pretty well-established that acupuncture inhibits dopamine production. There are ethical issues, as well as methodological and technogical constrants around testing humans in the same way.

Sorry, this is my area of work I don't mean to sound like a know-all.

Don't worry, you don't. My background is clinical psychology (though I don't work in it now--too difficult for me not to take my work home), so I know quite a bit about research in that area, too. I just disagree about your conclusions, friendly-like :). Animal studies aren't perfect, but I take them pretty seriously since there is such a dearth of human studies in these areas.

[iamlost]

i am proud of you for telling him. but he may react poorly and think you are trying to fix him.

He might, but I said it in the best way possible, kind of "here's what I found out, take it or leave it."

In no way was I like, "this is what's wrong with you!" cause there's no way I can claim that. It's all theoretical--all I know is that the disease he had has been known to correlate with lowered dopamine levels, that dopamine is necessary for orgasm, that his symptoms are in line with dopamine-depleted people, and that in animal studies, acupuncture was shown to inhibit dopamine production.

The only way to test it is if he went to a doctor and got on some dopaminergic anti-depressant like Wellbutrin and his symptoms and/or his sexual problems improved...

[JCJ]

I just disagree about your conclusions, friendly-like :).

Complementary therapy is always controversial. My charity is actually pro it but I am a secret sceptic Although I think it has a lot of benefits.

How did your h react when you gave him that info?

[iamlost]

Complementary therapy is always controversial. My charity is actually pro it but I am a secret sceptic Although I think it has a lot of benefits.

Ha! I've been a secret skeptic of every job I've ever had. Yeah, I hope I'm not coming off anti-acupuncture. It does have a lot of benefits. Based on what I read, the dopamine results have apparently further inspired people that acupuncture may be an effective tool for battling dopamine-rush addictions like drugs and alcohol.

How did your h react when you gave him that info?

No reaction yet. We shall see...