Please help me to not give up............

[grant]

Hi All,
I'm really hoping that someone can give me a little encouragement to not give up. Separated 5 months now, and though I've been trying so hard with 180's,etc and did have some results, it does seem that things have got worse now. When I do go home at weekends to see my kids, things start off okay, but at some stage we always end up to about R, and it's downhill from there. She talks constantly about OP who has just left his wife, and I feel disrespected and deeply hurt. I try to make light of it all with little jokes etc, but she just looks at me like she despises me, and says I'm sad (as in pathetic).
She now wants me to set a date as to when I will give up, presumably so she feels able to file for D. One of her friends is in the final stages of divorce now, and she happily shares details of what she has learned about the process. I am trying so hard to be cool, not break down, and to show that I am a strong person. But I always end up getting ambushed by my emotions, and it's downhill from then on. Now she says that if I go home to see my kids, she will go and stay with her sister. Still coming with the "there's no hope" lines, and it's really feeling that I will have to give up and let her move forward onto the D process. I have wept everyday for 5 months now, and even though one minute I feel I must go on and keep fighting, the very next I am overwhelmed with the need to tell her that I can put up with it no more, and the only way forward is D. I visit the board quite a lot, and although I read situations where people are encouraged by others about their DB efforts, it does seem that success is desperately limited. I just want this pain to go away now. Maybe it's the start of true detachment for me, but I struggle with feeling weak, pathetic and out of control. My sitch is complex, but the themes remain familiar, and the actions and reactions almost textbook. I am so grateful that this forum exists, but I would just be so so grateful if anyone could take the time to read my sitch, and to comment or encourage. Anything really............ Justhttp://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1539583&page=8#Post1539583
Just feel so alone and at the end of it all. Is it really time for me to give up? Don't want to, but I can't take much more of this. Thanks so much guys.

[grant]

sorry, got the linking thread business wrong.

Hi All,
I'm really hoping that someone can give me a little encouragement to not give up. Separated 5 months now, and though I've been trying so hard with 180's,etc and did have some results, it does seem that things have got worse now. When I do go home at weekends to see my kids, things start off okay, but at some stage we always end up to about R, and it's downhill from there. She talks constantly about OP who has just left his wife, and I feel disrespected and deeply hurt. I try to make light of it all with little jokes etc, but she just looks at me like she despises me, and says I'm sad (as in pathetic).
She now wants me to set a date as to when I will give up, presumably so she feels able to file for D. One of her friends is in the final stages of divorce now, and she happily shares details of what she has learned about the process. I am trying so hard to be cool, not break down, and to show that I am a strong person. But I always end up getting ambushed by my emotions, and it's downhill from then on. Now she says that if I go home to see my kids, she will go and stay with her sister. Still coming with the "there's no hope" lines, and it's really feeling that I will have to give up and let her move forward onto the D process. I have wept everyday for 5 months now, and even though one minute I feel I must go on and keep fighting, the very next I am overwhelmed with the need to tell her that I can put up with it no more, and the only way forward is D. I visit the board quite a lot, and although I read situations where people are encouraged by others about their DB efforts, it does seem that success is desperately limited. I just want this pain to go away now. Maybe it's the start of true detachment for me, but I struggle with feeling weak, pathetic and out of control. My sitch is complex, but the themes remain familiar, and the actions and reactions almost textbook. I am so grateful that this forum exists, but I would just be so so grateful if anyone could take the time to read my sitch, and to comment or encourage. Anything really............ http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1539583&page=8#Post1539583
Just feel so alone and at the end of it all. Is it really time for me to give up? Don't want to, but I can't take much more of this. Thanks so much guys.

[TwinDad]

Grant,

Lola has been giving you some good advice.

First off sorry you are here

Secondly this is not all your fault no matter which way you cut it. Yes your sex issues are a problem and I don't agree with what you have done, though I am not judging you as well. The fact remains your W has some ownership in this as well, whether she wants to admit it or not. In some respects I think she did by ramping up the sex when discovering your on-line fling. If she had been meeting your needs all these years then that wouldn't have happened. Of course she may have been holding out because you weren't meeting her needs in some way......here we go chicken and egg. At the end of the day it takes two to tango.

I hope that takes some of your guilt away and lets you forgive yourself a little bit to help with building up your self esteem again.

When I do go home at weekends to see my kids, things start off okay, but at some stage we always end up to about R, and it's downhill from there. She talks constantly about OP who has just left his wife, and I feel disrespected and deeply hurt. I try to make light of it all with little jokes etc, but she just looks at me like she despises me, and says I'm sad (as in pathetic).

First off....no R talk....none, you are not strong enough right now to hold your own in one.

I'm curious about the "sad" comment. Have you always been passive about the OM. Do you think she is asking you to take a hard line....to set boundaries. Make no doubts about it, EA's can be very powerful particularly if she has recently had her self esteem crushed. It will also tint her vision of you quite significantly....possibly making this take longer than it might normally.

In my sitch, my W was texting back and forth with her HS sweetheart and myspace activities all out of sight from me. Some of it while we were on a family vacation to help work on our M.....so I know how you feel

Maybe it's the start of true detachment for me, but I struggle with feeling weak, pathetic and out of control.

I am sorry you are feeling this way.....we all have and it sucks, but it is not detachment. Detachment is a position of strength and control in yourself

I visit the board quite a lot, and although I read situations where people are encouraged by others about their DB efforts, it does seem that success is desperately limited.

I wouldn't get discouraged by this, find a sitch that has given you hope and follow it, refer to it for inspiration. One thing to keep in mind, is when people have become successful, they typically don't come here very often (if at all). Also sometimes these things can take quite a while.

Also you said youwork away rom home 4 days a week and this has been a problem. Would it be possible to find something where you could live at home?

She now wants me to set a date as to when I will give up, presumably so she feels able to file for D

I don't think so, that is her trying to push the responsibility of the M completely on you. You give up when you are ready and not a minute sooner. This doesn't mean you have R talks and stuff like that, but you can be detached and still have hope. Tell her "I won't set a date on something like that, If you choose to file for D, then that is your decision". She might say seomthing like "you won't let me have a D"....I would respond with "I can't keep you from getting a D, but I am not going to do the work for you"

Keep it strong Grant

[HopefultotheEnd]

Grant, I don't feel that I should be giving anyone advice. So I'll make an observation:

When I read your posts I get that there is alot of focus on "her". Now I get how this is...I'm right there with you bro, but I feel the best about my own sitch when I focus on me.

Hang in there. We're all here for you.

[LolaL]

Hi Grant...have you seen a C at all?

[WAWed]

Grant, you may come to a point when the chances of M repairing seem slim to none, but that doesn't mean you give up. This is as much if not more about reclaiming yourself, forgiving yourself and getting yourself from your knees to your feet, from your feet to standing tall. You need to do that whether the M repairs or not. Getting to your feet is a huge task, that will take a while, focus on one day, today, not yesterday, not tommorrow at a time, and do everything you can to make today a better day for yourself.

You don't have to listen and be nice about OP, it's disrespectful of her, change topic or remove yourself from the conversation.

Pushing you to set a date to give up and have a D is ridiculus. She want's out, not you, why do you have to give up? If she wants a D that bad she can initiate herself, you are not preventing her, TwinDads suggestions for responses for this are spot on. Don't be cowed into doing something you don't want to do. Its just an easy cop out for her she is after.

[cat03]

I'll never forget this line a good dber here said "it might be too late but damn if its going to be too little"

I agree with the rest about her trying to put it on you, that's the coward's of trying to blame it all on you. ditto about hearing about the op, there is no reason why you have to hear such stuff, that is very disrespectful.
Wow, 19yrs, that's a long time, more of a reason not to despair, as my then C asked me when I told her i couldnt' wait any more "what's your hurry? do you have a man waiting?", so, the last thing to let go of is hope.

we all feel bad and need time to vent, there is a time for everything. i want you to start accepting that if she were never to come back you will be ok, otherwise you will be a wreck the entire time. resolve each morning to be happy, to claim the day for you, no more crying every day ok? I know it hurts like hell, but if you are either a) going to hang on for a while more or b) will head towards D -- you need to control your fear, find that strong person you were before you met her, to know that regardless you will be ok. This process takes times, it starts hurting a bit less each day, 22 out of 24hrs ,and so on.

Praying saved me, I lost touch with God for a while, but the only way I coul dhave peach was by prayer.

[grant]

I want to thank each one of you for the compassion and kindness that you have shown to me here. I can't tell you how much it helps to come on here, and to have people relate their experience and advice to me. I had kinda decided that if no one had posted a reply, then I would take that as a sign..... I know. Dumb!

I really am right in the thick of it right now, and I know all of what you say here, makes great sense. I have never felt such low esteem, and know that it is absolutely paramount to try to reclaim that and my self-dignity. It is hard because I DO blame myself for all the failings, and the events that have lead me here, and I really do appreciate her point of view, and her adamant words about "no hope". But I know that she's really in love with this OP, and there's nothing I can do to change that.

TwinDad, I want to thank you particularly for taking the time to address so many of the things that I said. It did help to give me a slightly different perspective on some of the practical issues that I have. I have been far too passive about the OP, mainly because in DR, it mentions never bad-mouthing the OP. I realise now that I DO have to set some boundaries, and while I don't need to bad mouth him ( no matter how much I want to ), I also don't have to sit there and listen to it. I appreciate that I am perhaps enabling her to justify her constantly talking about him. But I am only too aware of the enormously powerful effects of an EA. It might well be a PA now, for all I know. I laugh about that "alien" thing which is such an accurate description of her weird behaviour.

I am, as of now, considering moving back into my home. She has mentioned recently( mostly as a result of my youngest son saying that he wanted to see me more of me ) that perhaps I could move back home to look after my boys, and she would move out. Not sure where, although I would think initially to her sister's. I did say to her that I couldn't see how that would work, as it would involve my giving up my job situation and leave us all destitute.

My career requires that I work mainly in London, and my home is 3 hours away.But I'm trying to be "solution orientated", and am trying to think of a way I could work more from home. I'm just not sure whether that would make my whole situation worse.OP has left his wife and is staying with a friend. So I guess that my moving back would initiate her moving out. I know I'm still focusing on what SHE might do, instead of me. But I'm kind of at a point now, where this "limbo" situation is causing such grief, that I feel I must do something to move this thing on. I feel like although she hasn't asked for the D yet, it feels like it's coming. But I think she wants me to be the bad guy, and to push her into it, so she can once again focus the blame on me.

One other thing that I haven't yet mentioned, is that her Mum has moved into our house, after paying for a large attic conversion. This was all planned, and was set in motion some time before all this came out. I love my Mother-in-law, and both my wife and I feel such guilt that she has moved into this situation. Although right now, I think that I can't allow that to influence my decisions about what I must do for myself. My biggest problem I think, is that I am severely lacking a "life". I work largely in isolation, and I only ever had that and my part-time home life. I've lost so much weight, and frankly, am a shadow of my former self. I know this isn't helping, and I must start looking after myself a good deal better than I have been doing. It's mostly stress I think. Lola, thanks so much for your advice. I am not seeing a C as yet, although I am thinking of trying that too. My wife is absolutely not interested in C, but I know that doesn't preclude my doing it.

I am praying too, and trying to get closer to God and my spiritual side. Still struggling though with the uncanny accuracy of the predictions of my future and my current situation from the psychic reading that I had. Wished now I hadn't done it. It makes it harder to believe that there might still be hope for us.
I must try to get back to "me" regardless.

Thankyou all so so much for your words. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
It really helps.

[TwinDad]

Grant,

Glad that you haven't given up. 19 years of M doesn't just evaporate.......

Here is a to-do list

1) Work on your self....physically (find the time) and emotionally. Rebuild your conifidence....know that you are going to be ok....don't just say it...know it! GAL. The easiest way is to spend time with your kids going to events you will meet other dad's there.

2) Take care of your family. Mainly your sons. Regardsless of what happens between you and your W, you are still their dad. Bonus: There are few things more attractive to woman than a man who is spending time with her children....the fact that they are also yours is a win-win.

3) Figure out where you need to make changes. Surely you and your W have had numerous R talks or complaint sessions leading up to here. (Don't ask her again).....but what was she really asking where can you make changes that make you a better person.

If I was in your sitch, I would do everything possible to be closer to my children. Your W is even asking you to do the same. You say you will be destitute......will you really, fully exlplore your options (maybe commute two days stay in london 2 days so you are home for at least part of the day on 5 of the days)......where there is a will there is a way! It could be your absense on a daily basis has had a play in your W's unhappiness, he connection with the OM....etc. I am not looking to blame you, just put things in perspective.

You can do this!

[grant]

Hi TD, and thanks again for posting. There is a great resonance in your comments about a woman's perspective on a man spending time with her children. I know for certain that it has played a huge part in her dissatisfaction with me as a husband. She has openly said that she has noticed the change in my relationship with my kids since our separation, and plainly likes the improvement. This is in part her great attraction to OP, as he spends time with not only his kids but (unfortunately) mine also.

While I'm not in a position to affect greatly the amount of time this OP spends around my children, I guess my being there more would lessen the opportunities to display his "selfless, desirable qualities to my wife.

My problem is that in making a move back home, it will alienate her further, she will move out, and it's the big D train. Although, there is an increasing part of me that wants something to change..... almost anything would be better than the current state of limbo.

I'm really thinking about the 2 day thing TD, but if I do make moves to go home, and my wife feels she has to move out, my opportunity to control if, and when I go to work becomes very difficult if she won't be at the family home to take care of them in my absence.

I have to DO something though. I can't stand just waiting around for her to push the button. Reclaiming my right to be and live in my own home whenever I choose, with due consideration to my family arrangements, is something I feel increasingly lead to pursue.

As far as personal changes are concerned, the sexual issues are HUGE for her, and though she knows I have had therapy and am involved in the 12 step programme, the sex "thing" has been around in the background of our marriage for a very long time. It's true, that perhaps if she had met my needs more, then I wouldn't have been so susceptible to the online experience. But as you rightly surmised, her feelings were that I was not meeting her needs emotionally, and so it's the old "chicken and egg" thing.

Your words of encouragement are so helpful to me, and I never see what you write as judging or blaming me, as I'm only too painfully aware of the errors I have made.

I did return to my parents family home this week, to reconnect with them and my sister and family. They live at the opposite end of the country, and I don't get to see them often. It was a huge boost to be around people who genuinely care for me and love me for who I am, and while they are aware of the problems that I might have visited upon my marriage, they always provided support and empathy for my situation. It certainly helped to alleviate some of the intense loneliness and isolation I have recently felt having been removed from my home life and extended family and friends. It did also make me think that perhaps I should be taking a stronger stand about having to move out of my home and to have to live in a tiny box room. Perhaps, I'm thinking that attitude might be benificial to my PMA.

I guess she's gonna do what she's gonna do, so if I really come to believe that is the best way forward for me personally at the moment, then I must go for it.
Yikes! I'm scared.

Thanks again.