I am feeling the same way right now. Why does ML have to be dead last on the list of priorities? You can't put this part of a marriage on hold until life gets out of the way. If you do you'll find yourself wondering how life passed you by. Now is the time to live, if not now then when?
You asked "don't women understand how this puts men between a rock and a hard place?" I wanted to just tell you...no, they don't understand.
It is so clear to me now in hindsight, but NO at the time my kids were under age 14 I did not know that they were not my entire world. No one could have told me otherwise and if they had tried, I would have scoffed at them.
I'm sorry you've hit a speed bump. I know it will turn itself around. I wish there was a way to get the message through to women about how (I'm sorry, I'm just going to say it) how they are using their own children as an initmacy buffer between themselves and their husbands. I did it too, and I am struggling to try to think if ANYTHING anyone could have said to me to show me this was not the right way. If I think of anything, I will let you know.
While I was on vacation, DanceQueen and Shelby had an exchange concerning what I (with tongue-in-cheek) call 'industrial-strength' vibrators; i.e., plug-in massagers. I have a story to tell regarding one of these and how it has helped my wife and I to get out of our SSM. At the same time, it's pretty darn personal, so I've had to debate whether to talk about it here, or not. However, since I think that it can help a woman to discover / re-awaken her sexuality, sometimes significantly so, I'll share the story. Hopefully I'll be forgiven if this gets too personal.
The Bad Old Days
During the time when our marriage was sex-starved and our relationship quite strained, my wife was orgasmic, but in a limited way. She could only have single orgasms through VERY direct clitoral stimulation, either manually or via a direct water stream. Stimulating other areas of the vulva "did nothing for her," in her words, and oral stimulation was not permitted (she wouldn't let me try it). Manual stimulation, by me, took anywhere from 10 to 45 minutes, highly dependent upon her mood and energy level. The longer time frames often felt more like work than pleasure for her, as the resulting orgasm was pretty ho-hum. The shorter times were generally the best, and still are, actually. She never owned, or even wanted to own, a vibrator.
Early Stages of SSM Recovery
Last fall, when we were finally both on board and trying to improve our relationship and sex life, my wife bought a book called How to Have Multiple Orgasms, by Janalee Beck: perhaps not the best book on the topic, but a start. I looked over the book, and found that one of the suggestions was to do exactly what DQ advised Shelby --> to begin with a powerful, plug-in massager. Knowing that my wife wouldn't do it, I ordered her a Hitache Magic Wand, with attachments, then quietly waited to see what she would do with it.
"Magic" was the operative word. From the very first use, she could reach orgasm, without effort, in about 5 minutes. Multiple orgasms followed shortly thereafter, and nowadays, while masturbating by herself, she can average one orgasm every 3 minutes for up to an hour (so do the math there...my chin dropped when I did). However, as DQ also warned Shelby about, for a time, using this vibrator became the only way in which she would reach orgasm, and we had to incorporate it into our lovemaking.
I will fully admit to developing a love/hate relationship with that Magic Wand during this time period. On the one hand, I was thrilled that my wife was exploring her own sexuality, masturbating more than ever in her life, with some of that excess sexual energy starting to spill over into our own sex life. Initially, I didn't mind incorporating it into our lovemaking, either.
On the other hand, and being a typical male, --> I <-- wanted to be the one bringing her to orgasm(s), in a variety of fashions, not some machine, and this wore on me over time. Because my manually stimulated O's had stopped, it even felt like a step backwards in that regard. Additionally, I also knew that there were times when, rather than face the pressure / worries / anxieties that came with making love to me, she would sometimes turn to the Magic Wand instead and continue to avoid me. So there were a few days when I wanted to smash the thing with a hammer. But I stuck it out, and waited to see how things developed.
Current Stage of SSM Recovery
Over these last few months, things have really begun to shift in a favorable direction, sexually, and the Magic Wand has been an integral part of that (even though I still sneer at it from time to time ). The nerve endings have been gradually coming to life down there for her, beginning with the clitoral 'wishbone' structure, G-spot (which is very prominent on her, when aroused), and now including other areas that we'll keep secret. She now permits and is learning to enjoy oral stimulation (no O's from that yet, but give me time). Manual stimulation is back, with better O's than before, although still requiring some rather long time periods (if I could just get my fingers to 'buzz' like the wand....). And much to the surprise of both of us at the time, we've now experienced her first ever penetration-only orgasm.
"Did you just?" "I think so..." (it wasn't fireworks, but still a firecracker) "Cool!" [male slaps chest in gorilla fashion]
The Magic Wand is still a part of the repertory, especially if she wants more than one O, but it has gone from a mandatory to an optional slot now. And I expect things to keep getting better.
So overall, I consider the thing to be one of my best investments , ever.
But I still hate it....
Isn't male ego fun?
-- B.
Last edited by Bagheera; 08/14/0810:03 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Baggy, thank you so much for validating much of what I wrote on my blog about O's, vibrators, etc. And for being so honest about how the male ego interprets a woman's use of the vibrator.
I think last week seemed to bring the summer break crisis to head, and things are on the mend again. We aren't were we were in June, but the car is back on the road and out of the ditch, at least.
My wife continues to have a very hard time allowing herself to be sensual and sexual when there are kids in the house 24/7 and there are things to be done: housework, summer projects, kid activities, church activities. I think she accepts now, in theory, the fact that physical intimacy is not a 'luxury item' that she can just drop when the heat is on, but is, instead, a necessity for good marital health. I think she 'gets it,' but has a hard time putting it into practice.
In working to put DQ's 'stolen deep kiss' idea into practice, I'm figuring out where her current limits are with regard to feeling either (a) surprised and pleased by the quick show of passion on my part, or (b) pursued and pressured into being sexual (a feeling I must avoid in her --> way too much baggage from the past there). During her Mommy-mode portion of the day, my touches and shows of affection still need to be NON-sexual in nature the vast majority of the time. HOWEVER, the occasional display of male possessiveness and passion seems to be enjoyed: as long as it remains occasional and I immediately revert back to Daddy-mode myself.
This is all a delicate balancing act, as it has me pushing her envelope of comfort in two areas simultaneously --> I have to be slow, steady, loving, understanding and patient about it. Due to her history of abuse, she has never been all that keen on either touching or kissing (yes, kissing, DQ). I think each represents a level of closeness and intimacy that, as a first reaction, makes her uncomfortable -- a reaction that she has to then 'work through' to enjoy.
Touching: as a kinesthetic, I'm her polar opposite in the touching arena, and over the last few months of taking charge of our sensual relationship, I have -gradually- been increasing the level of touching between us. For now, it's pretty one sided, with me touching her, but she's growing more accustomed to it, and enjoying it. She gets short displays of affection during the day, tons of massages and foot-rubs, and caresses and spooning as we go to sleep, and she's even gotten to the point of seeking some form of contact with me during the night as we sleep -- a first for her. It's not the all-night-spoon that I would love (yes, I'm weird that way), but it's great nonetheless.
Kissing; DQ's 'stolen kiss' idea gives me another avenue toward improving her reaction toward kissing and being kissed. She's never been one to "make out," even at an appropriate time, and generally doesn't even seek out kisses while making love all that much (although there ARE times, if I've really done my job well). So in stealing a kiss from her I'm not only breaking her out of Mommy-mode for a minute, but also pushing on an intimacy boundary for her: PROCEED WITH CAUTION!
The poor girl's head is probably spinning, between what she wants (a truly intimate, close relationship with me) vs. her natural Mommy-mode mentality; her deep-seated knee-jerk reactions to closeness and intimacy vs. her body's positive response once I've gotten her through that barrier. She even made a (somewhat surprised) comment the other day about how the increase in touching over the last few months has been good for her, even though she still tends to resist it.
Hopefully now, after all of these years, I can successfully open up this rosebud without breaking it or causing it to close up tighter. I'll certainly try, although I still feel like I mess it up way too often.
-- B.
Last edited by Bagheera; 08/18/0803:58 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
You asked "don't women understand how this puts men between a rock and a hard place?" I wanted to just tell you...no, they don't understand.
It is so clear to me now in hindsight, but NO at the time my kids were under age 14 I did not know that they were not my entire world. No one could have told me otherwise and if they had tried, I would have scoffed at them.
I'm sorry you've hit a speed bump. I know it will turn itself around. I wish there was a way to get the message through to women about how (I'm sorry, I'm just going to say it) how they are using their own children as an intimacy buffer between themselves and their husbands. I did it too, and I am struggling to try to think if ANYTHING anyone could have said to me to show me this was not the right way. If I think of anything, I will let you know.
Many women (and men too) in SSMs do indeed use children in this way, though perhaps in many cases it is "learned" behaviour from their own parents' marriages. To the average frustrated husband (or wife) - which Bagheera is thankfully not - its an almost unanswerable argument. A powerful guilt trip.
However, the "kids" excuse for not having intimacy and sex in a marriage is ultimately BS - and both spouses need to accept that.
Is there a magic way of getting the point across? Probably not. But there is an analogy that occurred to when me reading DQ's first blog.
Marriage is effectively a cart. Two wheels - a man and a wife held together by an axle - proceeding on life's journey. As the journey progresses, the cart acquires passengers (children - bless 'em) and baggage (house, financial responsibilities, etc). The passengers are of course very important, but if they are to travel in the safety of the cart until they are old enough to jump off and walk their own route, then the cart has to be strong enough to bear their weight.
And what is the most important part of the cart? The axle, which IMHO is nothing more and nothing less than than the force of attraction between the husband and the wife. If that becomes too weak or goes altogether, then the wheels literally come off the marriage. With usually disastrous results.
This image, for me anyway, demonstrates that children and other responsibilities do not strengthen a marriage in and of themselves. If anything, they increase the importance of a strong intimate relationship between the husband and wife, because they will likely suffer most when the wheels eventually come off.
How many spouses out there incessantly fuss over the passengers and the luggage, while unaware (or in denial) that the lack of regular attention being paid to the actual mechanics of the cart means that the whole damn thing is destined to lie in a ditch with the children and finances literally all over the place?
So that is what I would say to any man or woman on the subject, including my own wife if necessary.
I wheely mean it.
(couldn't resist! )
S&A
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated" - from The Old Man and the Sea, by Ernest Hemingway.
Which I take to mean that every man has within him a spirit of relentlessness and optimism. Its already there; he just has to cultivate it.
This image, for me anyway, demonstrates that children and other responsibilities do not strengthen a marriage in and of themselves. If anything, they increase the importance of a strong intimate relationship between the husband and wife, because they will likely suffer most when the wheels eventually come off.
How many spouses out there incessantly fuss over the passengers and the luggage, while unaware (or in denial) that the lack of regular attention being paid to the actual mechanics of the cart means that the whole damn thing is destined to lie in a ditch with the children and finances literally all over the place?
It's not the all-night-spoon that I would love (yes, I'm weird that way), but it's great nonetheless.
I love the all nite spoon too. So I am weird too. My H loves it too... I thought that was normal?
You are doing great B~ . It takes alot of hard work and IMO~ your Wife is moving along at a good pace. Other veteran posters would have given there left eye for what she has done. How far she has come in these past few months....
Felicidades.. { congratulations} The glass is really half full , not half empty. I assure you. You are blessed.
You are doing great B~ . It takes a lot of hard work and IMO~ your Wife is moving along at a good pace. Other veteran posters would have given there left eye for what she has done. How far she has come in these past few months....
I completely agree with you here, Alimari. I am extremely thankful for her and the progress that we have made over this past year. So while we BOTH still have times of frustration with each other, we both also acknowledge how far we have come.
Of the 10 or so regular, or semi-regular posters here now (following the Valentine's Day Exodus), there are only a couple of us at the SSM recovery stage where BOTH partners 'get it' and are actively working on improving their relationship and sex life together as a team. I'm darn lucky to be one of those.
And I sincerely hope that I can help others to get there too.
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
I want you to know that you are helping me to get there.
I followed the link to AASECT that you provided and I was able to locate 3 ST's in my area. I got very excited when one was on my insurance plan. Unfortunately when I called they have since dropped my provider, which was a bummer. Anyway when my wife does "get it" (I just know she will), I now have a list to chose from for MC/ST when we are ready for that step in our recovery.
The posters here on this forum are so great, sometimes I don't feel worthy. You guys provide so much good and detailed information, besides being fun to interact with.
). The nerve endings have been gradually coming to life down there for her, beginning with the 
)
Anyway when my wife does "get it" (I just know she will), I now have a list to chose from for MC/ST when we are ready for that step in our recovery.