Starting again...with a Beginner's Mind

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hiya Sage,

I can relate to a lot of what you address here, re: controlling wife, fleeing husband.

Brought to mind something my husband said to me about how things will be great in the begining, but it'd probably take him another 7 years to walk again. This was in response to my expressing a fear that if I did one thing wrong he'd walk. So, his response is positive in that I can stop worrying that one thing will set him off. However, it does indicate his tendancy to let things build up.

It's a slippery slope. Maybe it's just a matter of staying in touch with the bb. Or maybe re-reading Michele's books once a year.

I don't know...but if you figure out how to stay out of the rat hole, let me know!

[Padawan]

not only ARE we both free to leave ...well, it's that freedom that might make it more palatable to stay.

Sage

That was beautifully said Sage, and right on the money for our spouses.

It seems to be scary for us, until we learn/realize/accept we'll be just fine either way also. If we can build our confidence up on that issue, it would be easier to let go of the need of "trying" to control the R.

Padawan

[puckpal]

I guess it comes down to figuring out how to open myself up completely to my m. and to him (a sticking point in the past) while knowing in my heart that nothing is certain (in terms of longevity) and that not only ARE we both free to leave ...well, it's that freedom that might make it more palatable to stay.

To open up means to allow yourself to be vulnerable. That takes a tremendous amount of courage coming from a place that you have. By understanding that nothing is certain takes even more courage.

I belive, IMHO, that my W was not able to do this after she discovered my infeidelity and even after she forgave me at retrouvaille. Her opening up always depended on a concrete sign that I would always be faithful or that we would be together forever, and as we all know nothing in this world is guaranteed.

The fact that you believe that only you are responsible for you own happeiness will empower you to be vulnerable and ultimately open up.

Keep it up, you're doing great Sage,

Puck

[sage]

It's a slippery slope. Maybe it's just a matter of staying in touch with the bb. Or maybe re-reading Michele's books once a year.

PnT, re-reading Michele's books is a great idea! I think I might need to do it 2x a year, though I'm putting a reminder into my Palm Pilot...

Thanks for the suggestion!

BTW -- have you and h ever talked about an "action plan" if things start feeling "that way" to him? Like, how he'll let you know?

Sage

[Phoenix_In_Bloom]

Hiya Sage,

No, we haven't come up with an action plan. That's a good idea.

However, I think his email was a good step in the right direction. Not sure if you had a chance to read up on my thread, but he sent me an email saying that he was having doubts about moving back in with me.

After much talking, I sent him an email saying that was a great sign, because he did talk to me and tell me about his doubts.

So, emails might be the way to go, since he has already chosen to express himself that way.

Hmm!

Hugs.

[sage]

Here's part of my horoscope for today (bizarre):

You have the potential to heal past hurts if you can get past your fear of being vulnerable.


A sign from the stars

I belive, IMHO, that my W was not able to do this after she discovered my infeidelity and even after she forgave me at retrouvaille. Her opening up always depended on a concrete sign that I would always be faithful or that we would be together forever, and as we all know nothing in this world is guaranteed.

SO....nothing in this world is guarenteed for sure, and I KNOW I can't ask for reassurance that my h and I will be together forever...but, I don't think it's too much to ask for the commitment to fidelity....it's how I entered the marriage and it's an ongoing commitment that I expect upheld...even if it's "I promise you that I will LEAVE you or COME TO YOU and alert you to the ...."

And, frankly, given all that my h and I have been through over the last year...it's my expectation that neither one of us would want to go through this again...his feeling of undeniable pain, mine too, the guilt, the utter destruction of self-esteem...you know the drill.

So...I honestly do not think it is too much to ask to know how we're going to not do this again...

As for "concrete signs", well, one of the reasons that I was drawn to your thread (and other threads where the poster is the person who had the affair) is the overwhelming feeling that I had wishing that my h had been more willing to assure me of my "safety" with him -- assurances around not just "loving me" but around never putting me through the utter trauma of an affair ever again. I can easily think of a dozen things that I wish that he had been willing to do that would have shown me -- some large, some small -- that he understood my need to feel safe.

I'm not exclusively putting the onus on him -- you know that -- I am more than willing to work my A$$ off to ensure that I never put HIM through the pain that he was in, too.

That's why I've tried to point out to you (total projection on my part) that perhaps your wife didn't need ILYs but more actions and indications that she could trust you...

Sage

Sage

[sage]

I can easily think of a dozen things that I wish that he had been willing to do that would have shown me -- some large, some small -- that he understood my need to feel safe.

Responding to my own thought...

I have worked on my hope/expectation/whatever that h respond to me in "a particular way"....

I realize that this is a cheeseless tunnel.
That h is doing really wonderful things every day for me
That h may no KNOW what it is that I need and/or
That h may not be able to give me what I think I need
That dropping the rope on this and DB'ing with it is the recommended course of action!

Sage

[puckpal]

Horescopes can be intrieging (sp) and certainly this one is.

SO....nothing in this world is guarenteed for sure, and I KNOW I can't ask for reassurance that my h and I will be together forever...but, I don't think it's too much to ask for the commitment to fidelity

No sage it's not too much to ask for a commitment of fiedelity. That should me the minimum requirement. I also admire your commitment to working your butt off, as well and not placing the complete onus on your H to make the R work. As we know it takes 100% of each person in 50% of the M to make it work.

In my sitch, I should have bite the bullet, even tho I resented the fact that I did have to do most of the R work, and did what I needed to do to make my W feel safe in the M. Unfortunately, I got stuck and thought if I just stayed faithful, it would be ok. She obviously needed more that ILY's and faithfulness to keep it going.

I pray it's not too late. Keep up the good work on your end , your doing great.

Puck

[psluke]

Hi Sage,

Just wondering are you and H not at the point where at times you can carefully let him know what it is you need?

I know Cal has posted to me about expressing my feelings and expectations to David being careful to use the "I feel" statements.

Was just a thought!

Obviously you have been at this much longer than me and know your H and the situation best.

[sage]

Pam,

Thanks for the visit! I think that h and I have been doing great in "asking for what we need" in a lot of different areas -- the place we seem to get stuck still, though, is my asking for reassurances. I do it in a God awful way (top of my lungs or crying or in the middle of the night or just after a wonderful meal or....) and he gets withdrawn, stuck, whatever.

I'm in a mode right now where I'm self-soothing In other words, I'm keeping a careful eye on what keeps me out of my "insecure as hell" zone, doing a lot of self-talk when I do start freaking, pulling out all the DB tricks! You know that I've also been noticing the wonderful positives that h has been doing so that's working great too.

Bottom line is that I still need to "DB" my way through this particular area...my need or want for reassurances of a particular kind and the idea that that seems to bump up against h's need or want to not be pressured or controlled or whatever

SOMEDAY...I'm gonna look around and realize that he's filling up my "safety tank" AND also that when he doesn't, I'm able to ask him for help...just not there yet!

Sage