just read your last post to the old thread and figured best to respond here.
you don't need to be whacked...you hold your own 2x4 you've just got to learn how to use it.
I understand your wishing your h responded the same way as the new victims wife...sorry he didn't but you can't punish him or yourself for that...things happen.
perhaps a way to look at things is this...
affair..crisis or opportunity?
if h didn't have this affair how would your r have progressed?
would you have learned, grown, changed etc?
would h have learned, grown, changed etc?
yes it certainly sucks that these things happend...it would have been nicer if our h's were open and honest with us about their feelings and let us know what we could do but that really wouldn't have worked would it?!
as resentful as I have been about h's a being the catalyst for change in our r I have to accept that it happend and accept the changes for what they are...they are good and so I can choose to focus on the new..the changes...the better r...or I can dwell on the catalyst and not enjoy the changes.
if h didn't have this affair how would your r have progressed?
would you have learned, grown, changed etc?
would h have learned, grown, changed etc?
LL -- You are a wise woman! I wouldn't wish this on anyone..nor would I wish the same wakeup call on myself in the future...but it's done and over and CAN serve as a growth opportunity, etc.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
OK -- I started reading DR again (hi, Topaz!) and in chapter 2 it talks about looking at things with a beginner's mind...and perhaps more to the point, identifying the thoughts/ASSumptions that are keeping you from doing that.
Just journalling the things here that I came up with -- Things that I ASSume -- that block me from moving forward
1. h is "incapable" of honesty 2. h avoids conflict at all cost 3. h will never tell me how he feels 4. h wants out of our m. 5. h has continued contact with ow 6. h is not willing or able to end a. 7. I am unloveable 8. h will eventually leave me no matter what I do 9. h will go down this path again and have another a. 10. h doesn't care about my feelings regarding his a. 11. h. doesn't love me 12. I will never be able to satisfy h's relationship needs 13. h is looking for an escape route 14. if h loved me he would tell me how he feels about things 15. if h loved me, he would apologize for a. 16. if h loved me, he would reassure me when I ask for it 17. if h loved me, he would make a grand gesture re. a. 18. h will never forgive himself or believe that I truly forgive him.
What is the cycle that needs to change?
Well...it's a few things. I have not forgiven my husband for his choice to have an affair. I have not forgiven myself for the things that I did, the needs that I didn't meet. NOT forgiving each of us, well, that needs to change.
HOW does this cycle play itself out? Things are going good. Either h. withdraws slightly or I just get insecure but either way, I start feeling worried, insecure, nervous, anxious. I create some chaos -- often at the end of an evening -- I get clingy and ask for reassurance -- or I make some ASSertion about something that may or may not be true. H. withdraws. I get ANGRY but use sadness and insecurity and fear as a barrier. H. withdraws even more. I feel like crap. I apologize (but also feel self-righteous) We walk sort of on eggshells for a while It takes a while to bring back the good times and relaxation to our m.
And so on....
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
first off stop making assumptions about h...unless of course you'd like to start assuming some possitive things
Quote:
It takes a while to bring back the good times and relaxation to our m.
what are you doing as the good starts to come back again?
can you do more of that?
what if you stopped looking for reasurrances and simply told yourself the opposite of all the neg assumptions you make on your own?
what will you do the next time you sense or assume h is withdrawing....where will you allow your thoughts to go...what will you think of instead of making negative assumptions about his withdrawal.
is his slight withdrawal really withdrawal or is it more of a stepping back and not being so "on" sort of a getting comfortable once again in the r?
just as you can convince your self that things are not going well and all those other neg things...you can convince yourself that things are going well that you are loveable etc.
OK, I'm struggling on quantifying my goals...everything I think of is too huge, not action oriented, too vague.
If I close my eyes and think "what do I really want today from this marriage"? the answer is:
I want to be free of the thoughts of ow and the affair. I want to feel confident that h is recommitted to our m. I want to feel relaxed when I am with him. I want to feel as though I am working to move this m. into a positive direction.
See what I mean? Not an action oriented thought in the bunch.
I know what it will feel like...I'll come home and not be worried that ow was there or that h went to see her, talked to her. I will feel relaxed -- like I once said "in my own skin". I will laugh spontaneously. h. will laugh, will joke, will be physical with me but not in a way that hurts (he'll hug me but not squeeze me too hard, he'll kiss me but not bit my ear so it feels like it's coming off!). We'll be relazed with each other. One of us will initiate and not feel insecure. there won't be hesitation when we talk. I'll be able to breathe a sigh of relief because I'll know I'm safe with him. He'll be able to do the same. He won't be afraid of my judgement, my criticism. I won't be afraid of his distance.
I've felt it before. I've even felt it post-BOMB. It's been a while since I really felt comfortable....in the past, when it's been THAT good, well, I've screwed it up with CHAOS.
Maybe here are the goals:
1. Do what it takes to get back to the comfortable in our own skin mode (I know what it is...I'll post it)
2. Get through next phase of "freak out" (which follows #1 above) without actually freaking out.
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quoting lostlove: what are you doing as the good starts to come back again?
can you do more of that?
what if you stopped looking for reasurrances and simply told yourself the opposite of all the neg assumptions you make on your own?
what will you do the next time you sense or assume h is withdrawing....where will you allow your thoughts to go...what will you think of instead of making negative assumptions about his withdrawal.
LL -- you're actually READING my mind!!! We crossposted. My two (still crappily worded goals with NO actions yet) are just what you suggest.
Do what it takes to get back to the good. Get through the next "freak out" phase in a VERY different manner.
Quote: is his slight withdrawal really withdrawal or is it more of a stepping back and not being so "on" sort of a getting comfortable once again in the r?
Ah...I **think** the withdrawal is one of two things...it's either me just freaking out (w/o h. contributing at all) OR it's just the slightest withdrawal by him...I'll notice that he stops saying ILY for a few days....he won't initiate or be receptive to me initiating...I get hypervigilant...start thinking I SEE something, etc. then freak out. It's so slight...not a big deal at all...but I convince myself that I have to be on "infidelity watch" -- that what I noticed before about h. -- when I KNEW he was having an a (and was right) was that the ilys stopped, the intimacy stopped, he stopped holding my hand, everything.
There's no doubt a BIG difference between the slight pull I feel now and the super, duper withdrawal of a year ago...I just get 'em confused.
Not a pretty sight!!!
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Sage, yes we are seeing the same thing (as you pointed out to me on my thread). I had also been thinking about a new thread that was Beginner's Mind oriented.
I love what you have done with listing out assumptions. I think thats a good tool and will use it as well as I really need to pull out all my assumptions/fears & what if's and really look at them under the light of day.
Another thing I was thinking about was two "theme" oriented threads. One would be for everyone to post nothing but things they LIKE about their H or W. Another would be to visualize what we want in our marraiges--as a way to set our own goals.
I think it would be good to have those type of threads to help us all remember to look at the positive things. I know I could use the help and seeing other people's posts about those topics would help me remember "oh, yeah...I like that about my H too" or "that's a good goal so and so has, I think I'll incorporate that into my goals too!"
What do you think? I'll start the Everybody's List of things they like about their spouses if someone else will start the other threads.
Quote: Ah...I **think** the withdrawal is one of two things...it's either me just freaking out (w/o h. contributing at all) OR it's just the slightest withdrawal by him...I'll notice that he stops saying ILY for a few days....he won't initiate or be receptive to me initiating...I get hypervigilant...start thinking I SEE something, etc. then freak out. It's so slight...not a big deal at all...but I convince myself that I have to be on "infidelity watch" -- that what I noticed before about h. -- when I KNEW he was having an a (and was right) was that the ilys stopped, the intimacy stopped, he stopped holding my hand, everything.
Just wanted to let you know that I am going through this exact same thing, and am too trying to find the balance. This weekend my W pulled back a little. I don't really think it was a big deal, but I made it into one...evaluating her present behavior and comparing it with her past behaviors. I made my own assumptions because she briefly (and accidentally ) saw OM Thursday evening when she went out with her friend. Thing is, I end up getting into a funk and it doesn't help our sitch any...as I'm sure it doesn't for you.
My W, although seemingly more communicative than your H, said to me repeatedly, just because I'm distant doesn't mean anything is wrong, or that it has anything to do with THAT! It's not that I'm afraid she's off to see OM. It's more that I'm afraid of going back to previous patterns that led to her having an A in the first place. The irony here is that by projecting my fears onto her, I am the one repeating past patterns.
Sage, I have fears, insecurities, the whole gamut, just as you do. We are in this mode of hyperanalyzing and it sucks. In the past what we would've shined on now becomes a big issue. Really, this is the opposite of what we should be doing. So, how to break this mold?
I think I'm just going back to act "as if," and redouble my efforts on hitting her love language. I find that things are best when I'm doing that. What about you?
Didn't mean to hog your thread with me...me...me... I just wanted to show some parallels...
and not feel insecure. there won't be hesitation when we talk. I'll be able to breathe a sigh of relief because I'll know I'm safe with him. He'll be able to do the same. He won't be afraid of my judgement, my criticism. I won't be afraid of his distance.
