Reason to Believe on the Lake Erie Shore

[smartcookie]

Detach..... If you truly love someone, set her free, in every way, if she comes back to you, beautiful. If not, decide now, that you'll be okay.

If you read ndsmhelp most recent post, he treated her like a beautiful butterfly, & she kept flying over to land on his arm.

It was cool.

[kptch]

You have a great thread going here. I can't give any better advice than what has been posted but I have read and re-read all of the posts along with the ones on my thread.

I could easily substitute my sitch for yours this last week. I asked my W to go to a marriage seminar on Sunday. I tried to tell her without pushing her. Deep down I knew I was pressuring a little because I really wanted her to go but I told her that 'I don't want to put any pressure on you.' I got an email today from my W saying that she was not ready to go. I thought that is how she would feel but I held out hope. In her email she said she felt pressured. She said she did not want to feel like I was going to corner her when I came to the house to talk about the R. She wanted a little small talk and that was it. That is what I will give her in a nice way.

With that email and reading everyones comments on your thread and mine, it is time to detach. I am finally getting that nothing I do is going to make her feel any different. I am just punishing myself by being consumed with trying to find a way to speed things up. As I have been told, it won't work. I believe it now. I pray that I will get some peace about this where I can detach.

The other things we are doing are not working. I am praying this is the best thing to do. Both of our Ws said no more pressure. They know how we feel. We have to respect that or it won't get better and the worst could happen.

[sandi2]

Hi fb2, I was actually referring to the OM when I made the comment about outside interference. Although anyone could be.....that was the one I had on my mind at the time.

I will try the link but the last time, the mods wouldn't allow it. I guess it is advertising. Don't know the difference in that and suggesting a book. But, I'll try.

http://www.shop.[censored].com/main.sc

well, it got censored. I don't know how to use the book. Just look it up on the web like I wrote and it will come up.

[sgctxok]

^

[sandi2]

Hey Neil......you rang?

[smartcookie]

SC....you got stickied...LOL...thx for your advice today....now how do i interact with my W? i'm sorta lost.....thx

Let's break this way down.... I'm guessing that you're on overload ?

why do you HAVE TO interact with her ? What would happen if you didn't for a few days ?

Please fill in the blank... don't think, just answer. Even if it's to yourself.

If she leaves me I will _____________ .

I'll be back soon to check for you.

[Neilh23]

i know you all told me to take a hike...but i have a question for tyhe WAW's....

what's more difficult? forgiving the LBH for his f ups or forgiving yourself for putting up with them?

My issue, today, after some time to think about it, is that i'm having a ton of difficulty forgiving myself. I mean, after reading SC's story...listening to what Sandi and Bridge have said to me......working stuff out with my IC about the narcissitic behavior pattern i had/have..i'm surprised my W stayed as long as she did...........and why i have my doubts she'll come back.

i want you all to understand something.......at the start of our R, my W and I were not the model couple. we hated each other to start.......i was a cocky SOB, sophomore in college, just had my first real girlfriend (who consuquently broke my heart..and i felt that i was owed something by the world) and my W was a mouthy college freshmen.....and then one night we got drunk together...and off we went. For the next year and a half....she wanted me. friends with benefits. i drove her to counseling because i told her i couldn't keep having sex with her IN THE MIDDLE OF HAVING SEX.....the problem was is htat i really started to care about her......and wasn't ready to be in an R.....she coudln't handle it....drank about half a bottle of vodka that nite.....still can't to this day drink vodka......anyways...we became best friends...with benefits...she always was there....i'd date someone else....break up...she'd be there....hell, i actually cheated on a girlfriend with my W....... but she was always there. finallyy, october, 1997, we started dating. hard core. right from the get go...ILY's, etc.......then we hit a rough spot as i graduated.....she caught me in bed with a girl i had been friends with for a long time...nothing had happened...we were just naked.......course, i was drunk....anyways..that summer, she did the same thing with my roommate. we forgave each otehr.

she graduated the next year. we moved in together. got our first cat. she got a full time teaching job right out of college. i had to sub for another year. i got bitter. chauvinistic. i wanted to be the one to provide for her. then i got my job the next year..the bitterness was still there. we got engaged in october of my first year at my current job....2000. then at the end of that year...i met someone....realized i wasn't happy. we fought. broke up for about 2 days....she gave me the ring back.....then got back together. one of the issues was that our sex life was horrible. not good. come to find out, she'd never had an orgasm with me. let's just say she was uncomfortable with................something that would help with it. liked to give it...not to receive it....weird.
anyways.
things improved........we connected again. we got married...best wedding i've ever been to. our sex life was a little rocky....but not bad. we both were teachers...busy during the school year....then we moved to our first house...that first summer............ i was in a horrible car accident. the other driver died. lots of guilt on my part....not all my fault i know. anyways...strains our relationship..plus the house we bought was where i worked...a small po dunk town with one stop light. we loved the house. hated the area. she left alot of her friends from work when we moved......but we couldn't afford to live where we wanted to..the problem with that was i did all the bills. we did them together for along time.....then we just...stopped. anyways...we got pregnant....surprise a bit because she stopped taking the pill about a month before she got pregnant....we have our first daughter in January 2005....for the next 6 months...OMG....best sex and relationship we've ever had...i have never felt closer to my W.....however....we both are history teachers, and not math teachers...so we lost count...and got pregnant again....shocked the hell out of both of us..have our second D in march 2006....again, sex is great afterwards....but we have a scare....in july.....thought she was again....i suggest getting an A. did research on home ones....realized i was hurting her...and that y would i want to eliminate something we created.....but the damage was done......she slowly starts withdrawing.....i start becoming controlling.....and we end up here......

so...

what came first? the chicken or the egg? Who is it harder for a WAW to forgive? herself or her LBH?

sorry for the long read.....but my W and i have some serious background stuff.....and that's why i doubt....

now you know.

[Neilh23]

Let's break this way down.... I'm guessing that you're on overload ?

yup.

why do you HAVE TO interact with her ? What would happen if you didn't for a few days ?

actually, i'm not going to see her until sunday now. perhaps sooner, if she would like to see the kids. and the only reason i do interact with her is because of hte kids. we say hi every nite on the phone after the other talks to them

Please fill in the blank... don't think, just answer. Even if it's to yourself.

If she leaves me I will _____________ .

survive and be happy with who i am. and share that happiness with someone else.

the thing is...i know this. what it is isthat i'm struggling to forgive myself. this is the woman i love. and i see the hell i put her through........and that's what makes this painful. that's why i feel like i failed. my kids have the chance to grow up in a broken household....

ok. i better stop.

nite

[poet]

"i'm struggling to forgive myself. this is the woman i love. and i see the hell i put her through....."

(((((((((Neil)))))))))))

You have to know that even if you don't forgive yourself NOW ... that you have that capability within yourself to do it. God loves you and we love you. My goodness! You have the most active thread on this network. You are LOVED and you are already forgiven, even if you don't know it yet.

What do you think I've been going through these past two months??? Why do you think I've been in panic mode for most of these two months??? I've been SCARED and ALONE with the monster that is me! Hence, the reactions, the meds, the obsessive calling, the anger etc.

Now, I'm not saying that we (you or me) can just snap our fingers and it will all be gone. It is a PROCESS -- you know those little baby steps everybody keeps talking about???? Well, one day, you're going to wake up one morning and realize that it's NOT ALL YOUR FAULT. God forgives you, I forgive you. Your wife -- if she hasn't already fogiven you -- will forgive you. And you're going to realize that you can forgive yourself too.

Did you ever get a chance to read my poem on the forgiveness thread?

hugs,
poet

[TwinDad]

Neil,

That took courage.....no matter which way you shake it. Thanks for sharing it with us. It really helps us understand where you are coming from a lot better.

To me the big issue is pretty obvious, maybe not so much the issue (though I am sure that was a major catalyst) but possibly how it was handled.....

Did your W ever express interest in having another child? I can understand with being teachers why that would be difficult, but did she ever want one?

One of the major sticking pointsin my sitch was the desire to have a third child. I was against it for a long time...really caused my W some pain. Neither one of us handled the conflict well. We have both grown up quite a bit in the process.

<<<<<<<Neil>>>>>>>