Trixi trying to find moorage

[Trixi]

Just journaling. One day I plan to actually print out all my threads..maybe not.

I am getting tired. On Sunday I was trying to find something for us to do, and came across a cool looking event. I told H about it and because he planned to jam at 4:30, there wasn't enough time for us to go and get back in time. I said "well, maybe we can go to it next year" and he was sort of blew me off. Could be me projecting, but the impression I got was "we won't know eachother this time next year." Like I said-- I am tired, so I might have been reading into it.

Go to a local farmers market and this lady is there playing some bluesy jazz on a little stage. We watched for awhile and she said "Musicians always get left because they are on the road so much. I have lots of 'falling in love', 'hurt in love' songs because I'm a musician." Her tone almost made it seem romantic. whatever. Anyway, she was an odd duck and when we left my H said "Well, if SHE can sell records, then my band will do great!" and he proceeds to tell me how awesome they are.

On the car ride home I mention what she said about being left and i said "You know, TONS of musicians are married. Bon Jovi. Sting. Tons." He laughs and says "Well, I think she's not married because she's a handful, not because she's a musician." *sigh* My point had really been to point out to HIM that it IS possible to have a career in music AND a spouse.

When he left he said "I'll come over Tuesday to study." Yesterday (tuesday) he sent me a text message that said "I'm going to bail tonight. I'll come over early tomorrow." Rude.

I spoke with my landlord and he said he would consider owner finanacing for me since there is no longer any loan programs that I can qualify for. I am not ready to commit to buying this house, but I need to make sure I know what my options are.

I am tired of feeling like an afterthought. I am tired of feeling like I am a mistress in my own marriage. I am angry that we have more going for us than a lot of couples and he is standing in our way by not stepping up to the plate.

Last friday he went to his parent's for dinner and they had a guest (I had met previously) from Germany there. The guy from Germany brought his girlfriend. All of a sudden, when my H told me this, it hit me. This guy took his GIRLFRIEND to their house. *I* am not even worthy of being treated as a *girlfriend*. 13 years ago, when H and I first started dating, I was having dinner with his family within the first few months. NOW I am a secret kept in the wings. It's not right.

Saturday night we watched movies. One movie the girl (20yo) was topless and there was also a butt shot and H says "wow. wow. Nice T*ts...Nice A$$, too. yeah.mmmm.." Maybe I am too sensitive but come on! So I said "I could do that too you know." Next scene is guy in shower then getting out off the shower w/towel around his waist, so I say "Nice a$$. OMG, look at those abs." Then H was mad at me. But he says it's because I got mad at him. Tell me- is it out of line to expect someone to keep their mouth shut? I am not expecting him to not notice an attractive woman, but how about some tact or discretion???? Guys- do you say that to your W? Would you get mad at her for being mad at you? Girls- if your H did that, would you be ticked? Truly, I want a reality check on that.

I don't want to have to pull the plug on this. I am mad because I bet if I do, it will still be "my fault" for not being "enough". Like if I said "I can't do this anymore, you aren't treating even as good as a GF, let alone a W" I can bet he would say "yeah. You just don't make me feel that way."

Looks like Turkey may be delayed-not sure what the start date would be, but I might be able to use Retro as the litmus afterall.

I am discouraged and now I wish I would have flexed my muscles sooner, when he "liked" me more. Now it probably wouldn't matter- he would probably be relieved that it wasn't *his* fault for us going our separate ways. Am I greedy for wanting to see him more than twice a week? Am I the GF who is trying to move too fast?

I am really confused right now. At what point has enough time passed that I am not being unreasonable for wanting things to progress forward? I think I have shown him that I am willing to do new things, that we travel well together.....

Somehow you have to get the idea across to him that he is in danger of losing you.

Indeed. Not sure HOW to do that..he thinks that I believe it is our destiny to be together.

[istherehope]

Hi Trixi,

Just in terms of the reality check on the comments that your H made...well I guess it depends on the relationship. I have seen some relationships where women are absolutely OK with those kinds of comments, and some where they aren't. My H will call people hotties, but not be quite so direct as to comment on specific body parts, unless it's to note that they look fake... Can I just suggest that maybe instead of trying to prove your point by doing the same back to him, you instead "validate" his comments? Since you are not in the place where you can tell him something bothers you and it needs to change, instead try the 180 on this. If I were in your situation I might say something like wow they really are nice! Looks like she works out a lot, I wonder if it's Pilates...or something like that. You never know, he might subconsciously be trying to annoy you, and if you act like you don't care, he might stop. He might even compliment you if you say something like wow maybe I should run on the treadmill more would love to have that a**...Just thought it might be worth trying.

Sorry that I can't really give advice on the rest as I'm in a bit of a weird limbo myself today, and not really feeling the PMA...

Best of luck to you, thinking good thoughts...

ITH

[Sara]

Your husband seems to be trying to make you his buddy, not his wife. It is callous for him to be admiring another woman's body in front of you. And he should have expected you to respond in kind. Any woman would have. But his buddy might have said, "Yeah, I wouldn't kick her out of bed." But then, are you his buddy? Maybe he needs to look again at your body to see.

[Trixi]

He gets plenty of "non-buddy" time with me. Probably much too much. (at least according to the guy friends of mine who think he is cake eating to the max.)
Physically, I cannot compete with a 20 year old. I've had a kid, been WAY overweight (ie, stretch marks, saggy boobs) and now the stress of this sitch has not helped my body in the least. Since our return from Costa Rica I must have gained 5-10 pounds. My eating habits haven't changed--so I figure it's either peri-menopause or all the cortisol that is coursing thru my body because of the backwards progress we are making. What I *do* have on a 20 yo is experience, skill, desire and blatant approval for things well done. *ahem*

In our 13+ years together, he has only done that sort of thing (commenting) a handful of times. And you know, saying someone is hot or pretty isn't the issue- I consider it like looking at fine art, or nature or whatever. What really got my goat was the obvious way he was looking at her.(The "yeah..mmmm..." thing.) WTF? I am supposed to imagine him with her while he imagines himself with her? Haven't I already had to imagine him sleeping with girls "half my age? I was willing to forgive those indiscretions because I know that he thought we were headed for D and as such, wasn't "cheating".

My IC said that when he said that thing about how we were playing chess and I better make my next move a good one, I should have said "ok. Then my next move is I am moving back home."

Maybe it's time for me to say "Look you said I better make my next 'move' a good one. Here it is - I am moving back home or I am moving on."

I really wanted us to go to retro before saying something like that.

I wish his work would officially schedule Turkey for October so I could put retro back on the table.

[Dom R]

I don't want to have to pull the plug on this. I am mad because I bet if I do, it will still be "my fault" for not being "enough".

if you are worried about that... then you arent ready to wave goodbye to him yet.

You'll be ready, when it doesnt matter what he says in return.
Bottom line, you'll kick his butt out of your life because he's a selfish jerk who's more interested in himself, than small details like commitment, and marital promises.

Do you expect a jerk to say, "wow... you know.. you're totally right... I completely deserve you kicking me out" ??

no.

[NikB]

I am getting tired. On Sunday I was trying to find something for us to do, and came across a cool looking event.

I don't blame you for being tired - you're in constant pursuit of your H, and doing all the work in the R along the way. Why are YOU the one looking for something for "us" to do?

Stop chasing and let him pursue you. (I know - "What if he doesn't pursue me?" - then you have a decision to make.)

I said "well, maybe we can go to it next year" and he was sort of blew me off. Could be me projecting, but the impression I got was "we won't know eachother this time next year." Like I said-- I am tired, so I might have been reading into it.

That was a ton of pressure.. but you know this.

I do think it's going to TAKE some pressure in your case to get things moving in some direction, whatever direction that might be. But I think it needs to be much more direct and straight forward than this. Dropping hints about future plans to try and push for an answer and then guessing from his response isn't going to do it. As you know I suffer from total lack of R talk while you suffer from way too much . Given that you guys DO talk about it so much though, I think it'll need to be a pretty straight forward discussion if you decide to talk about it.

Personally I'd go the route of "action" first - more in a sec.

We watched for awhile and she said "Musicians always get left because they are on the road so much. I have lots of 'falling in love', 'hurt in love' songs because I'm a musician." Her tone almost made it seem romantic. whatever. Anyway, she was an odd duck and when we left my H said "Well, if SHE can sell records, then my band will do great!" and he proceeds to tell me how awesome they are.

Ack.. that sucks she said that! I ended up at a John Lennon tribute concert all about "love is all you need" on my anniversary last year - right around the time of the second bomb. We didn't even acknowledge the date. AWKWARD. Sorry you got put in that position.

I'm glad to see he jumped right into talking about his band instead of focusing on that musician comment, actually. Could've been a prime opportunity for him to tell you all about how musicians can't be married.

On the car ride home I mention what she said about being left and i said "You know, TONS of musicians are married. Bon Jovi. Sting. Tons." He laughs and says "Well, I think she's not married because she's a handful, not because she's a musician." *sigh* My point had really been to point out to HIM that it IS possible to have a career in music AND a spouse.

Ugh... I really wouldn't have brought this up again. He obviously wasn't focusing on it.

You're NOT going to control him, convince him, change his mind, or make him see things your way. I think you'll feel a lot better when you stop trying. He's NOT going to respond to something like that with "Gosh, you're right!"

When he left he said "I'll come over Tuesday to study." Yesterday (tuesday) he sent me a text message that said "I'm going to bail tonight. I'll come over early tomorrow." Rude.

To which your reply should be: "Sorry, have plans."

If you remain open and available at his whim, he'll continue to do this stuff. Probably push it to see just how far he can go, if he's not doing that already.

I am tired of feeling like an afterthought. I am tired of feeling like I am a mistress in my own marriage. I am angry that we have more going for us than a lot of couples and he is standing in our way by not stepping up to the plate.

(((Trixi))) I'm so sorry. I don't blame you at all.

I think he's going to keep treating you like a mistress in your own M as long as you continue to allow it, unfortunately. He's not going to respect you until YOU respect you, and require him to do the same.

Tell me- is it out of line to expect someone to keep their mouth shut? I am not expecting him to not notice an attractive woman, but how about some tact or discretion???? Guys- do you say that to your W? Would you get mad at her for being mad at you? Girls- if your H did that, would you be ticked? Truly, I want a reality check on that.

Hmmm... I'm pretty much in line with ITH on this one, I think it depends on the relationship. Both between the two people, and the status of it at the time.

It used to be that it didn't bother me if H said stuff like this. Heck I'd even point it out sometimes (in a "damn she must work out a lot, check out her legs! Makes me want to work out..." kinda way). After the bomb I got more and more insecure about stuff like this. A few times I confronted H when I saw him giving a little "too long" of a look at a girl when we were out - just simply "Can you please show some respect and not do that right in front of me?" Now that things are getting a lot better I'm slowwwwly getting back to more of where it's OK to say stuff like that. I'm still not OK and probably never will be with "that" look towards someone else, though.

It's a long winded way of saying... I think it totally depends on YOU and what YOU are OK with. If this is a boundary for you then let H know he crossed it. If it's not, I like ITH's idea of "validating" it in a way to see what happens.

I don't want to have to pull the plug on this. I am mad because I bet if I do, it will still be "my fault" for not being "enough". Like if I said "I can't do this anymore, you aren't treating even as good as a GF, let alone a W" I can bet he would say "yeah. You just don't make me feel that way."

I tend to agree with Dom - if you feel this way, you aren't ready.

It seems to me like it's been a really long time since you tried some good 180s. Particularly the ones we've all suggested about being a lot less available and accomodating of his whims. What do you think? Is it time to try something else?

Am I greedy for wanting to see him more than twice a week? Am I the GF who is trying to move too fast?

Greedy? No, not at all! But way more "into him" than he is into you right now? Yes, I think so. I think awhile back you were the GF who was trying to move too fast. Now, I think you're the girl that's so easy to get it's not even worth making an effort on his part.

I am really confused right now. At what point has enough time passed that I am not being unreasonable for wanting things to progress forward? I think I have shown him that I am willing to do new things, that we travel well together.....

I agree, I think you've shown him all those things.

Personally I think now it's time to back WAY WAY off. Don't reward him treating you rudely (i.e. the last minute bail out via text). Be busy. A lot. Busy doesn't have to mean out doing stuff - I know you're more of a stay at home kinda gal. But still, be busy.

And NO R TALKS for awhile - have you tried this at all? I feel like every time you see your H you pressure him directly or indirectly for R answers. I'd say it's time to try something new.

One idea is the "bold move" approach - which is practically an ultimatem so make SURE you are ready for the results either way before you do this. The other is make yourself A LOT more scarce.. I know we've all given you lots of ideas on this in the past.

Personally I think I'd try the "scarce" approach first. He's not treating you like a GF so quit acting like one. Act like the girl he's trying to win (and not doing a very darn good job of it at the moment), not the one trying to win him over.

This is a kinda lame analogy but it's all I can think of right now.. I feel like as things stand today, he says "jump," you say "How high? Oh and can I get you anything from the top shelf while I'm up there?" Where I think you'd get much better results? H says "Jump" and you say with a sassy attitude "Oh yeah? Whatcha gonna do to make me wanna jump for you?"
(OK sorry as I said it's kinda lame but I hope it conveys the point at least a little bit ).

[NikB]

One other quick thought - on Sunday when you found a cool event and he didn't want to go - instead of "maybe next year," what about responding "Oh that's too bad - well have fun jamming" then get a friend to go, or go by yourself?? That's the kind of 180 I'm talking about.

[Dom R]

Bah.. got woken up by work. The perils of working as a sysadmin

late night insight:

Somehow you have to get the idea across to him that he is in danger of losing you.

Indeed. Not sure HOW to do that..he thinks that I believe it is our destiny to be together.

well... start disabusing him of this notion!!!

This is your #1 problem. I said this over a YEAR ago. it's still true now

If "destiny" is what brings you together, then "obviously".. he doesnt have to do a lick of work in anything. It just has to "FeeEEEEEeeeel right...."
And if it doesnt... well, it's just "destiny" taking it's time... nothing that he has to do about it...


I suggest that you start telling him, up front and blatantly, that you were WRONG.
That a good relationship, never even mind a good marriage. takes WORK. from BOTH PEOPLE. and he just aint putting in any serious work, and you arent happy with that.
That you're tired of being taken advantage of by him. By being just used by him as his plaything, "when he feels like it".

I am really confused right now. At what point has enough time passed that I am not being unreasonable for wanting things to progress forward?

With your history, and what you've done for him? And put up with?
Hmm, lemme think now....

Um..... 3 months ago? 6?

[Trixi]

Thanks for the ideas Nik.
The Sunday thing being researched by me was because he came over Saturday night, we watched movies, talked about whether we should go jeeping on Sunday (original idea he had) and decided not to go because the weather wasn't supposed to be nice. SO, while he was in the shower, I looked online for a new 'thing' for us to do instead of 4x4ing and found this event that was a couple hours away that had the Kinks and Smashmouth at the day before (no one "special" on Sunday.) Anyway, when I said the "maybe next year" thing, I actually didn't intend it to be anything other than a passing comment. It looks like something fun to do. It wasn't meant as a test- but he probably took it that way.

Tonight was Spanish. Before he left, he said "I'm jamming Saturday,so we can do something Sunday if you want. And maybe Friday go see a movie or something." IOW, I did not ask about the weekend.
The following weekend he is doing a boys camping weekend and I am going to a glass gathering, so we won't see eachother that weekend, nor the Wednesday before.

I guess I just don't know how to play a middle ground without it looking fakey or punishing. I need a "how to be a bitch" coach. (And by 'bitch', I mean someone sassy that doesn't give a crap what some jerk thinks/does.)

[Trixi]

I suggest that you start telling him, up front and blatantly, that you were WRONG.
That a good relationship, never even mind a good marriage. takes WORK. from BOTH PEOPLE. and he just aint putting in any serious work, and you arent happy with that.
That you're tired of being taken advantage of by him. By being just used by him as his plaything, "when he feels like it".

I just need to get to the point that I don't care how he responds to that. Because obviously, he will NOT respond in the way I hope. If he was going to do *that* I wouldn't need to say such a thing in the first place.

I am just so bummed that I didn't do this when I had more leverage and he felt more lovey dovey towards me. Oh well,if it had backfired, I would have been singing the blues for "too much pressure too soon."

Sigh