I am a sex-starved wife. There...now I've come "out of the closet"... I have never shared this with anyone outside of my marriage. As all of you from this forum know, the deep feelings of rejection, sadness and self doubt caused by a SSM have enormous impact on every aspect of one's life, only I never quite put it all into perspective like that until recently.
I was approaching my 45 BD and suddenly felt strong pangs of MLC setting in. The depression and hopelessness tied to my long-term SSM were driving me to obsession over an exit strategy, feeling very selfish all the while that I would be willing to "throw it all away" primarily over sex. And then I found an article on CNN, titled "Help for Sex-Starved Wives". In it, Michele was interviewed about her new book, The Sex-Starved Wife, and that was the turning point for me. WOW! Suddenly validated, I was so relieved to hear someone else put into words exactly what I was feeling.
That is also how I found this board. I have been lurking here for a while, absorbing the wisdom and R techniques shared here...and sharing everyone's R highs and lows. I feel like you're all my new-found friends. After all, we share something in common that's so deeply personal. I am also very curious about what you have to say and any advice you have about my situation, since it follows a different pattern from the typical HDH/LDW scenario usually discussed here. I have only seen one LDH come forward and zero HDW's in recent history.
H and I both read The Sex-Starved Marriage and the book did have a profound impact on him. He has gone from not caring/"it is what it is" type of thinking to demonstrating affection and giving me "permission" to initiate ML...with enough warning for him to take a pill, that is. My concern is that he seems to be content now with this as a "solution". While it is a vast improvement from before, I still have much higher expectations for marriage and intimacy.
Examples: He doesn't seem to experience, from my observation, the intense feeling of connection and love described by the other men here during/after ML. In fact, before the book, he was perfectly content with platonic, "family" love in our marriage. Is this only experienced by HD men?
He shows no reaction to visual stimuli, i.e. me in a hot outfit, lingerie, or nothing at all.
He has no desire for me physically. He desires to please me, but as a woman, it's just not the same as him desiring me. He has no urge to explore my body, as some here have described with their wives. This makes his touches rather mechanical. WWW + XXX + YYY = O (Then we can ZZZZ)
Although he knows his testosterone levels are below normal, he makes excuses not to take the medication.
He's quick on the trigger...premature-E...and he views that as his normal. He doesn't care about working on it, which makes give and take during ML an impossible phenomenon if we want a mutually satisfactory conclusion.
He complained that sex in our R had become boring. I agree, but always attributed it to his need for efficiency, perhaps a way to compensate for the pre-E . And I can't touch him during ML in any way that might be stimulating or he will lose it.
Other than reading SSM, he's shown no other inclination to research ways to bring some passion to our M. I guess I would like for him to demonstrate his sincerity to change and show some leadership here. I would be thrilled if something new was his idea.
I'm sure there is more...I could go on and on, but this is already a really long first post.
Thanks for reading, and I welcome any suggestions for ideas to get my H off his stump. And if there are any LD men out there lurking who could share some insight, please follow me "out of the closet"!
Silverado
P.S. Did I mention H is a VERY GOOD MAN? And he is very open, and for that I am grateful. I just want to gather some ideas from others, both for him and for me.
You are most welcome here. I know that it takes a lot of courage to discuss these topics openly, even in an anonymous forum fashion, but the support that you get in return makes it very worthwhile. Your perspective, as the HD wife in an SSM, is also most welcome and will benefit the support group as a whole --> if nothing else, it will help deflect us out of our 'grumpy horny men's club' rut from time to time.
I'd like to hear more about your marital / relationship history. Were these intimacy problems evident from the beginning of the relationship? or did they develop over time? Are there children / motherhood issues involved? Are there any affairs (either emotional or physical) involved? In other words, how did you get to where you are now?
From what you've described, it sounds like your husband has a lot on his plate: problem with emotional and physical intimacy, problems with arousal, and (once aroused) problem with premature ejaculation. There is hope, however, IF you can stear him in the direction of actually tackling these problems. That's always the hardest step, as most of us here can attest to: getting your partner to see that it is CRITICAL to the relationship that these issue be addressed. I can offer two recommendations at this point:
(1) If your husband has read The SSM, then perhaps you can get him to read something else. I'm going to recommend that you get a copy of The New Male Sexuality, by Bernie Zilbergeld. It was recommended to me by our current sex therapist and contains the detailed exercises that he uses for solving problems in his clients with intimacy, erection problems, and premature ejaculation (all three are addressed).
(2) I'd also recommend that you look for an AASECT certified sex therapist near you, and see if you can get your husband to seek counseling. With his multiple problems, I doubt if the self-help book approach will do the trick by itself, although it can help to get the ball rolling. The problem, of course, is coaxing him to go to a therapist and actually discuss these sensitive issues -- he has to see the great benefit to himself and his relationship if he does.
Best regards,
Bagheera
Last edited by Bagheera; 08/11/0803:27 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
I really appreciate your suggestions. I will post more about our history later today when I have more time.
I do think you have hit the nail on the head with the counseling angle, but truthfully, I don't think he would go of his own accord. The only way I think he would make the time would be for him to believe it was for "my" problem. When I dropped the "mini-bomb" on him about two months ago, he got the name of a MC/ST that same day but never scheduled the appointment.
About a week later, I pointed him to the link to Ch. 1 of SSM, and his reaction was nearly as dramatic as your wife's. After we ordered and read the whole book, I think he believes he is on the self-help fast track. I have ordered a lot more reading, but will add TNMS to the list.
It's an interesting perspective that I have indeed---I'm a girly, girl, like most of the women posting here and I identify with that point of view to a T, but many times I feel like I fit better with the "horny men's club". It IS a role reversal in a sense. I mean, do I take on the role of the stolen kisses and ML initiator in my M and have it light my H's fire, as DQ suggests to you men? For me, I would be thrilled to be the recipient of random ravishing, but H, although he likes it, doesn't give it a thought afterward. That wouldn't stir any lingering thoughts of sex for him...believe me, I've tried.
To answer some of your questions, 1) Yes, the intimacy problems started from the beginning for us, but like Silly, I married him anyway--LOL. 2) There have never been affairs on either side--emotional or otherwise. 3) Unless you count porn, which I do. H has always looked at porn, although I can't say he was obsessed with it. But when you are not getting sex in your marriage and you know H looks at porn, it feels like an affair. Especially since he has always been secretive about it.
H and I met 20 years ago and were so amazingly compatible, we felt like a married couple from the get-go. It was good like a warm blanket and comfort food, but we also quickly fell into "married sex"---in the typical sense, that is, and there was never much passion outside of the bedroom. We kissed good morning/good night, hello/goodbye, said ILY, but all that is social correctness in most families. I grew up in a family that didn't communicate much and certainly didn't show affection or kiss. So suddenly having that in my life was a pleasant change for me, but it certainly didn't pass for passion.
When we became engaged, I figured everything would work itself out after we were married and were all "legal", since he had expressed some guilt feelings over "living in sin". Go figure (I was the Baptist girl and he was the partying bachelor, after all). But....as everyone knows from hindsight, not much is improved by marriage that isn't working beforehand. In fact, we never experienced the "honeymoon phase" I so looked forward to. I always imagined that when I was married, my H would buy me lingerie and want to ML most every night. As it turned out, after the wedding we only ML on a once/month basis for some time. I was devastated. I desired at least 2-3X per week...that would have been heavenly.
Our SL hasn't always been that extreme, but it was sure a rocky start. H is a do-er and he immersed himself during the early years in household or garage projects and computers. Somehow time for us completely fell by the wayside, unless it was something I planned. Thankfully I had a baby daughter just after our 5th wedding anniversary. She relieved the "love gap" in my life, and her arrival actually reeled hubby's attentions back a little closer to home.
About that time, we entered a phase where life was good, we were reasonably happy and were ML on weekly basis. But after several years the sex began to taper off, as well as other forms of affection too. Mentally, I blamed it on his weight (he's probably 50# OW), I-porn viewing, and smoking.
Just as I was reaching my wits end over those issues, H was diagnosed with colon cancer. He was successfully treated but had to endure chemo/radiation/surgery to his nether region. What little sex drive he had before was certainly gone then. I put my needs on hold, waited patiently for him to heal and then to begin to care about restoring his sex drive. But once it was gone, he didn't seem to miss it much and showed no inclination to do anything about it.
Then about a year ago, which was two years after he finished up all C treatments, I pushed him to go see an internist to get a full check-up. It's funny, he went to Dr.'s regularly, but surgeons only care about the parts they cut on and oncologists only care about the cancer and its related symptoms. H is overweight, and I was concerned that he might have cardio/cholesterol/BP issues that were compromising his health and causing ED. Thankfully, none of those symptoms were serious enough to warrant Rx intervention, but he was told to lose weight (yeah, yeah...), eat healthier (yeah, yeah...) and (duh) sir, your testosterone levels are below normal so you should take these gel supplements.
H took the Androgel for about 6 months, but after they adjusted for the correct dosage to bring the blood level to normal, he then quit because it was a pricey co-pay and he didn't feel it was the "fountain of youth" he expected. He said it didn't boost his libido at all, but in my mind that was most likely a product of "use it or lose it".
I have been encouraging him to get back with the program, and to find a different Dr. if necessary. H wants to find a Dr. that will tell him his thyroid is low. Someone's pitch on talk radio has him convinced that he has many symptoms of low thyroid, and he hasn't found a physician yet that will consider that, since his thyroid tests are WELL within the normal range.
I think a sex therapist would do him the most good, although anyone he would see would insist that he address the hormonal/physical issues first. (He did stop smoking--BTW.) I haven't even addressed any emotional baggage here. I suspect his upbringing is closely akin to yours, B. He grew up in a small town where his maternal g-father was the Presbyterian minister. Although his mom was a partier, she was a socially correct "Ms. Manners". He's never mentioned hang ups about sex from his upbringing, but I also doubt he's been introspective enough to have given it a thought.
Anyway...that's probably enough info for now to start discussion. Thanks for reading this LONG-G-G missive!
Thanks for the details, Silverado; it will help anyone trying to give you advice here.
I guess my next question would be: how do you feel right now (beyond sexual frustration), and how is this reflected in how you treat your spouse?
I'm asking this because the most difficult, but most important step that we ALL have to take in repairing a long-term SSM is to get beyond our own anger, resentment, and bitterness, in order to actually work at solving the problem. For example, if your husband sees you as "that angry woman who nags at me all the time," then he's not likely to want to change anything -- he'll dig in his heels instead. Getting beyond all that old baggage usually takes months of dedicated Get-A-Life (GAL) work: Learning to be less dependent upon HIM for your happiness, and learning to find your own happiness within yourself. The results are very much worth the effort, and, I think, necessary. Much of this process is one of taking an indirect approach toward reaching your goals; that is, the best way to get him to change, is to change YOURSELF.
Perhaps you're already there, and ready for the next steps. At the least, I hope you don't have to go through what I did to get beyond my bitterness --> six months spent alone through a long, upstate New York winter (my MLC "hermit phase"). I even grew a beard...but did not pick up a bear as a pet.
We're here for you,
-- B.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
3) Unless you count porn, which I do. H has always looked at porn, although I can't say he was obsessed with it. But when you are not getting sex in your marriage and you know H looks at porn, it feels like an affair. Especially since he has always been secretive about it.
Hey silverado,
As a guy that finally stopped viewing porn, I can tell you that this does affect a guy and how he thinks about his wife. It all seems so innocent to the guy, "this isn't cheating", he'll tell himself. What happens though is this is a way he detaches from his wife. Instead of thinking about being with her he replaces those normal thoughts of his wife with something else.
This can even happen if you are viewing it casually as I was, it doesn't have to be taken to a level of addiction. It has an addict aspect to it though since it is hidden away and secret.
I didn't realize the harm it caused until I quit this stuff cold turkey. I threw the junk out and quit viewing i-porn. All that was left was fantasy and you know what? The fantasies now revolve around my wife. Now I think about what we did together recently or what we might do next. It makes her my focus and reinforces my connection to her.
Of course to quit, he will have to decide to do this on his own. It did help for me to stop when I knew that my wife was aware of it and voiced how much it hurts her for me to look at this stuff.
I just thought you might like a guy's perspective that used to look at porn. I think it does matter to a relationship.
Cinco
Me49 W49 D17 M23 Sep01 Me PA 1 Jan02 filed D Mar02 ended A 1 reconcile Apr08 Me PA 2 May08 ended A 2 Aug09 A's revealed My latest thread Drive
Hi Silverado...I'm just popping in here and I don't know if I can help at all but...there is something kinda glaring at me in your story. Its kind of a red flag, at least from my view of it but maybe there is something else that makes it not so red.
Here are two quotes from your posts above:
"He shows no reaction to visual stimuli, i.e. me in a hot outfit, lingerie, or nothing at all."
"H has always looked at porn, although I can't say he was obsessed with it. But when you are not getting sex in your marriage and you know H looks at porn, it feels like an affair. Especially since he has always been secretive about it."
There is a discrepancy between these two statements. I am a little worried about the porn, especially if he has been overly secretive. What I am getting at is that maybe the porn is something "other" than garden variety? I mean, if he is visually stimulated by porn he should also be visually stimulated by the sight of YOU...in theory at least. I hope you see what I am getting at without me having to say it out loud?
Can you expand on this at all, or do you know any more about this? Have you discussed the porn with him?
I know that when I was married, there would be times when I would masterbate (not with porn but...), somewhat frequently, but I didn't want sex with my husband. In some ways, this was the typical "I am too depressed/tired/whatever to try to pleasure you, but I can do this for myself quick and easy and without you even knowing about it." At the time, I did not see the connection and I didn't feel selfish about it. But now I feel differently.
I realize now that I was "spending" my limited sexual energy that way. If I had not "spent" it in the boring, mundane activity of masterbation, I might have had more of it to direct toward my husband. (In fact, in my current relationship, we have a "no masterbation without permission" rule, and this is mostly for ME so that I will not waste any of my precious sex energy on an unfulfilling rub down and instead, I save it all for sex with him). So my point here is that if he has even a little bit of sexual energy, enough to spend on porn, then he does at least have SOME...and it is selfish of him not to spend that on you!
This is not to say he is mean or selfish in general. These sexual issues are a separate category and many times, we are just dealing with a person's long time habits. They are not meant to hurt any one else but at the same time...if it DOES hurt someone else (ie: their spouse who is going without) then it does need to be addressed.
Actually, I am doing pretty well at the moment. I reached my rock bottom place--dwelled there far too long for that matter--this past spring, even considering separation (I was classic WAW material). Anger had pretty much killed any loving feelings I had and we were living in an emotionally divorced state for some time, years I guess. H has always considered my unhappiness to be job stress. After all, our home life was happy and relatively peaceful, wasn't it?
I have ordered and am waiting for the Love Languages book to arrive. I strongly expect H's language to be revealed as "acts of service". This is how he shows his love and commitment to our family and to me. As long as there is money in the bank and harmony in the house, he is completely satisfied. My language will be touch, no doubt.
About two months ago, in order to break the ice on the serious subject of R talk, I began writing letters to him. I tend to become too emotional about those concerns, given how important they are to me, and usually end up NOT saying everything that I want in a face to face format. I also know that sex and R are not things he thinks about and that he would have no answers without time to think. It actually worked well for both of us to air out some of the dustiest places through letters and it also opened the door for the face to face talks.
When H read the SSM, his behavior toward me changed almost a 180 (at least a 140-LOL) Suddenly he began showing affection in an unprecedented way--hugs, kisses (even "good" ones), and he's asked me to please initiate ML whenever I want. This is the most difficult part for me, since I know it's such an effort for him. He requires the "blue pill" or the like and then experiences several days of side effects. While good ML energizes me and makes me want more, it seems to suck the life out of him, so I don't *really* ask for it as much as I'd like. But every 4-5 days is a VAST improvement over once a month.
Since then (about 2 months), I am doing MUCH better. I didn't really have to work hard to GAL....I already had one, since H and I were already existing in somewhat parallel but separate universes. I also get plenty of "me" time and indulge once a week in a facial, massage or shopping with D13. I am concentrating on spending more time on household projects that I avoided when I was so bummed, as well as making more time to enjoy my horses.
For him, I am doing my darnedest to ensure that he receives the positive feedback and reinforcement he needs for the changes made to date. My ice has melted for sure, and I return to him the love and affection he is showing me. If he gets to the point of actually asking 'how am I doing', I know I need to step up the affirmation a notch! I have given him plenty of space on following through with his physical stuff, and I only check in occasionally to see if he's done anything there, such as research or a Dr. appt. Honestly, I wouldn't describe his actions as "digging in his heels" in any way...he just doesn't show any initiative on his own.
We have made HUGE STRIDES here toward repairing our SSM, and I marvel at that for sure. But we're still not out of the abyss, and from here on I need to be patient and appreciative of baby steps. My concern is that H seems perfectly happy right here. He seems to be depending on me for guidance, so if I'm in that role, I want to choose my tools wisely. Hmm-m-m.
As I mentioned, I have a host of new books ordered which I will read for myself first. I have also printed out a number of your posts that I found particularly thought provoking, such as the '4 Basic Models', 'Sexual Archetypes' and the 'Confessions of a PE'. I will offer interesting reading material, since he is open to it. And for a while, I will try and support his "self help" efforts as long as he is trying. He loves to read, but prefers Clive Cussler to 'self help', but he will give a look-see to anything I show him with a thumbs up.
Yeah, actually I have a lot of thoughts about the porn.
We have discussed the porn thing and he knows it makes me see RED. He assumed at first that I was offended by the "perverted" things contained therein. ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!
I was distressed that he would rather look at that and do himself, when he had a perfectly willing (and lonely) partner in the next room. I think he was doing the quick and easy thing, just like you described in your first marriage. This has gone on for our entire marriage and probably explains much of our earliest issues.
I don't think he looks at anything terribly aberrant, since all I find evidence of is just hot sex between Ms. blonde big-tits and the faceless Mr. big-dick. My thoughts, and something I've asked him to consider is whether he has jaded himself somewhat with the porn.
He once said to me that I needed to dress more 'slutty' around the house to turn him on. By that, he meant Hooters girl-ish, with the hot pants shorts and tank tops that show a little boob through the arm-hole. At that time, you could only buy that stuff at Frederick's and Laura Ashley was the fashion statement of the day (I'm dating myself--huh!) I asked him to buy it for me or sexy lingerie, whatever, if that's what he wanted. But no dice. He doesn't even remember the conversation now and can't believe he ever used the word 'slut' in reference to me.
Fast forward to today... He claims to have stopped using porn about two years ago when I gave him an ultimatum on it. I came home and found a f#@k video out on the desktop of my computer where our D (age 10 at the time) could have seen it. He claims it was purely a self-help effort to try and restore his ability to have an erection since his C treatment, but the porn wasn't even working for that. So no more porn.
But last Friday, we had planned a ML date when I got home from work (a VERY late day for me) and I arrived home at an unexpected time and found him with the Mr. Big Dick and Lesbians Kissing and Toying on the screen. He apologized and said he was only trying to get ready for me. Somehow I blocked that all out and we still managed to have a great ML anyway.
I just find it distressing that he has to work so hard to get to an erotic place mentally to ML when Levitra takes care of the erection part. And yes, Cinco, I think it causes him to be detached from me during ML. And it distresses me terribly that looking at me and being with me doesn't seem to do the trick to get him aroused. For that, I'm afraid we will have to seek ST.
