Also Baggy...I hear what you are saying about the groping while she is doing the dishes thing...but that was in a convo with Silly and he was talking about (if I remember correctly) a time when her hands were full. I am NOT suggesting you do that. I am talking about a moment when the kids whereabouts is known by both of you to be outside or in another room, and your wife is relaxing, or just walking down the hallway. NOT on the phone. NOT doing dishes. Nothing in her hands at the moment, not even a book. OK? Just making that clear, for starters, it has to be when kids are not around and her hands have nothing in them, and she is not on her way out the door or to the bathroom. Make sense?
So my point is this...you have to take this role on yourself first and BE that man who can and will take his woman for a quicky deeply passionate 5 minutes of making out, whenever you want to.
To be sure, you know I am not suggesting you just start slamming your wife up against a wall once a day. BUT...I bet if you give it a try just ONCE in the next few days, grab a handful of some part of her body or her hair when she isnt expecting it and as she is opening her mouth to either gasp or protest, you plant a deep kiss on her before she can get the words out...then work with the kiss and the caress for at least 10 full seconds before you let her up for air...then touch her face and tell her "You know, sometimes the world will try to get in the way, but I wanted to remind you that you are still MINE and mine first". Then release her and go on with your business.
You can do it Baggy. I know you can!
DONE.
And now DQ can say: "See? I told you that would work!"
I read your post; looked between my legs (metaphorically) and verified that, yes, there's a pair of balls there; went out and dragged the wife by the hand into my home-office (away from sight of the kids); and smooched her up good. I even used a form of your quote on her.
To which she simply smiled, nodded, and snuggled her head into the crook of my neck.
Bloody women....I will never figure you guys out! I love ya, truly, but you all drive me nuts!
-- B.
Last edited by Bagheera; 08/12/0809:58 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
she becomes more and more worried about whether or not she'll be able to respond to me, while I becomes more and more worried about whether or not she'll be able to respond to me
Sounds to me like this is the problem, then. How she responds to you? For her, that is a stinkin' thinkin' mind set, and if you share it... same goes for you.
It isn't up to you to turn her on... it is up to HER to turn herself on... that is why the two of you are so worried about how she's going to respond to you... jeese, talk about pressure... no wonder the two of you crumble. Who wouldn't.
I mean... let's say you set me up on a date with a friend of yours... and then you say to me... "Corri, no matter what, you have to like him and have an R with him."
Uhm... hello... any chance I had of enjoying the date or potentially liking the guy is now gone, because an expectation has been placed upon me to act and BE a certain way.
And you'd never do that to me anyway, but do you see the similarity?
When both of you make YOU responsible for her enjoyment of sex, you are pretty much shooting yourselves in the foot, and guaranteeing it's going to be a not-so-enjoyable experience for either one of you most of the time.
She really needs to explore her own sexuality and desire... find out what she likes, what she doesn't... cuz if she doesn't, your sex lives are going to be pretty ho-hum.... kwis... cuz only one of you is actually showing up to have sex...
Once she understands that she is in the driver seat of HER and her sexuality (she's not there to keep you happy and please YOU... she's there for herself)... she regains power over her body, her emotions, her feelings about/during sex. She's FREE to be her...
And you now have a woman with whom you are having sex, not a wife who is fulfilling an obligation.
Making any sense?
Have you gone thru your old threads lately B~? Maybe you should..... { edit* OOPS~ the thread isnt very long sorry. I jumped the gun}
This post is amazing.... Cinco should read this...
{ *I* am going to re~read it myself a few times} ~Ali
Plus Baggy, its not that hard to figure out AFTER you get it down a couple of times. It will become mutually rewarding for you BOTH for you to play the agressor, and eventually, you really can expect it every day...but you have to lead the way and disregard her "protests". She actually WISHES and wants to be treated that way...but "that way" of being treated is something she hasn't had on a regular basis before, so she doesn't know how to react to it at first. So her usual habits will take precedent...and she will maybe try to protest...but this isn't how she REALLY feels.
I know this is all so confusing and I can understand that, but just take my word on certain things.
Also, I wanted to say, that I made it sound in my other post to you as if it is a one-sided thing that my man "takes" me for making out...but I actually "take" him too, and I know you want that once in a while from your wife, too. But in order to get her to that level of inner, daily-brewing sexual tension, first you have to be the agressor and work up to a point when you are getting those stolen kisses on nearly a daily basis. And then...well, when you get to that point, I will tell you more pointers about how to get HER to ravage YOU in the hallway, unsolicited, too.
Again, in principle, I know this is what she wants. Even now, I have blanket permission to 'take' her when I like (within common sense).
In this paragraph, you seem to be talking about sex. But I was talking about the making out, the kisses, the groping.
In my relationship, no, he does not have the right to take me for sex, he has to still check with me, seduce me, etc. But to grope me, kiss me, get some straight up making out time...that is what he has the right, too.
Perhaps I had better explain, else I seem like a Neanderthal.
The permission that I have to take my wife sexually when I choose -- within common sense, and with a specific safe-word just for initiation in place -- was my wife's idea. It fits in well with her sexually submissive nature, but more importantly, it was a very clever way for her to get us out of the old 'sexual rejection cycle' that plagued us for so long. She hated rejecting me as much as I hated the rejections. The pattern hurt both of us.
For the first several months of our recovery process, I laid the groundwork for a healthy sexual relationship. Her needs were being tended to -- she felt truly respected, cared for, and cherished by me for the first in years. We had repaired much of our close friendship and emotional connection. I had relearned how to court and romance my wife again. The problem of initiating sex remained, however, as I've described in my first thread here --> I wasn't being confident, seductive, and 'manly' enough to tip the scales and tumble her into bed.
So my wife turned the arrangement on its head. We talked about it (at length) and in a wonderful display of TRUST, she essentially turned complete control of our sex life over to me. I can literally 'take' her when I like --> no asking and therefore no rejections. HOWEVER, with such a privilege comes responsibility. I don't abuse the privilege, and her enjoyment remains just as important to me (if not more) as my own. I do my best to choose times that we BOTH can really get into it and and have fun.
As I mentioned above, I'm not perfect, and do make the occasional misread of her responsiveness, but she's pretty forgiving and we both learn from it. So far, this new dynamic is working well for us, despite summer vacation setbacks.
I wouldn't recommend this arrangement for everyone. It's simply what suits us as a couple, given our particular circumstances.
Take care,
-- B.
Last edited by Bagheera; 08/12/0810:49 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Baggy - ok, gotcha. That really was a clever way to deal with the fear of rejection on both your parts!
But hey, guess what? With her giving you permission for taking her, she has also given you implied permission for those stolen kisses. But you are now fearing her rejection of the kisses and using that as an excuse not to do it more often, correct? Lose that thought man! She won't reject you for very long if you do it right, and keep it up....get to the point where you are getting those fun loves daily...and then there is even MORE after that.
By the time your nest is empty, you and your wife will be shouting "halleleuah" as you slam the door behind them, strip naked, and run through the house shouting "woo hoo!"
(my man and I do that often...remember, my youngest just left the nest last December so...its still new to us!)
And in that vein, my youngest being 18 at the time, was no fool. We really had to sneak around and try to hide our constant sexy fun stuff, but he wasn't fooled. He knew too much for his own good, actually. The sex guide book I recommended to you? My son saw that on my bed table once and asked "why do you need a GUIDE?" implying that maybe we needed some "help" from experts. LOL! So I told him, since he is also a dancer, I said "well, you know how you really never stop getting better at dancing...you can dance your whole life and still learn, still have fun, still learn to be a better partner...well sex is the same. Trust me we don't need help, we just are always going to continue getting better at it". He rolled his eyes at me and walked out.
BUT...my son and my step-daughter (age 23) both really love my fiance, and they both truly wish to emulate the relationship he and I have, including all the snuggly-wuggyly stuff. I hear them brag to their friends how good their "mom and soon-to-be-step-dad have it goin' on". They have seen now finally what a marriage should look like, including the fact that we have waited a long time and worked through a lot of things before getting married (teaching them that there is no rush).
More of the summer fun: last night I spent on the couch (for the first time in a while).
The wife is still so focused on everything else in her life right now, that she can't find the time and energy for us as a couple. By the time we have an opportunity for a bit of play in the sack, she's either too sleepy, tired, sore, headachey, distracted, or something else to engage with me fully. And yes, these are all legitimate reasons for putting things off for another night, but that 'another night' hasn't shown up for weeks now.
I'll fully admit to having some old baggage bubble up to the surface in this instance. This situation is very reminiscent of the days when we had a baby/toddler/pre-schooler to take care of. She would stay so focused on child care (and the other gazillion things that go with having small children in the house) that time for intimacy was not in the cards. And if I complained, she would point to the child and state that there is where our focus should be. Do women really understand the dilemma this puts a guy into? By wanting to make love to my wife, i.e., by wanting to express my love for her and feel her love for me, I'm somehow a heartless bastard who doesn't care for his child. The guy is always left to wonder; why can't I do both?
I didn't stomp and rave last night, but I did make it clear that she needs to make intimacy between us a much higher priority, EVEN when things are busy elsewhere in life. We can't just sit back and wait for the planets to align properly and suddenly give us an opportunity --> we have to plan for and MAKE those opportunities.
Before someone asks: yes, I am doing my part to help out with the kids, the house, and everything else that's loading her down right now. I am, however, back at work now and only have the evenings and weekends to pitch in -- which I'm doing. And I'm doing so because it's the right thing to do, and I enjoy it -- no 'Nice Guy' covert contracts.
I'll be glad when the summer is done and the kids are back in school for the day. She really seems to need that time during the day -- completely to herself -- to recharge her sexual batteries and be ready for me at night when I come home.
Alright -- thanks for letting me rant. I also think it's important that I journal the "bumps" here too, as well as the nice stretches of roadway. One year into our SSM recovery, it ain't smooth sailing yet (mixing metaphors).
-- B.
Last edited by Bagheera; 08/14/0802:21 PM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
Just a *quick* note to tell *you* that what I miss *most* about my H is the way he used to hold me when we fell asleep/lied down. There was never any touching, no kissing; and in fact, I was not allowed to move -- just hold or be held. It was an affection thing.
