Hopping over to piecing & short intro

[shinybear]

Oops, posted before I was done...HI Sandra, I'm SOOO sorry about your pooch . You can't blame yourself, though, it was an accident...but what timing!

I'm a cat lady myself, but in my 20's I mourned for months when the family dog got hit by a car (we all let him "sneak out" past us now and again ).

Shiny

P.S. we all periodically vent about "other stuff" on the bb

[smokry]

I'm a fellow WAW and could use some support. Not that many of us around - you probably have read chacoal's stuff?

Anyway, I haven't read your whole thread - your summary was great, not too long as you were concerned about. I'll try to catch up more soon...Wanted to say Hi and wish you well!

Hi- Thanks for visiting my thread! I would be happy to offer what ever support I can...Thanks for the well wishes and I'll post on your thread in a bit!

[smokry]

And when it comes down to it, it seems like your H can't handle the truth right now (it also seems like he's not entirely being honest himself...but that's another topic).

I agree about him not being able to handle the truth...Out of curiosity- what do you mean about him not being entirely honest with himself?

I might also suggest having him read "5 Love Languages," "Divorce Remedy," and "Eight Steps to Loving Kindness" (if he's amenable to doing so).

I plan to read them- The 5 Love Languages seems to come highy recommended by everyone...but unfortunately- he won't read ANYTHING! He thinks he doesn't read fast enough, doesn't like to read...blah,blah...so that's not an option. He will watch video tapes or listen to audio tapes maybe I can look into that.

From my position, perhaps your H simply needs to be educated...to come to understand where the breakdown in your R came from...to recognize that it was as much him as it was you...and to take responsibility for his portion.

That's part of our problem...he at this point doesn't see that he had anything to do with our problems- especially the A. He feels like the A is THE problem...and doesn't see that it was a symptom of the problem!

Maybe you could just suggest to him that you think it's not a good idea to discuss the A (yours or his) until you've both educated yourselves?

Interestingly enough...he doesn't feel that what he had was an A. He says- even if he did sleep with her (which then he says he didn't)that a one night stand is better than a 5 month relationship. Of course...he doesn't seem to remember that he liked her well enough to strike up an EA with her and exchange phone numbers, etc..and then go to her house one night (as far as I know it was only one night)but that is not an A! How do you reason with that?

Thanks for your input!

[smokry]

I'm SOOO sorry about your pooch . You can't blame yourself, though, it was an accident...but what timing!

Thanks- I am doing better about it...I did have to clean the car windows because I had to get all the doggy slobber off of them...That was just too depressing!

[jethro]

Hi Sandra.

I agree about him not being able to handle the truth...Out of curiosity- what do you mean about him not being entirely honest with himself?

In your same post, you wrote what I meant: "...he doesn't feel that what he had was an A. ...and then go to her house one night (as far as I know it was only one night) but that is not an A! How do you reason with that?"

EA or PA or both or whatever. Point is, he needs to be honest about the situation too. That's what I meant about trying to get him to a point of recognizing where and how things went wrong.

BTW, I told my W about your dog last night and practically had her in tears. I'm sorry it happened...

Take care, Sandra.

jethro

[smokry]

Hi guys- I need some suggestions BEFORE I totally fly off the handle and make a big scene...which is VERY close to happening...

One of the goals H and I both stated we wanted for our M was to be financially stable. H is extremely irresponsible when it comes to money...so I pay all the bills. Trouble is I can't pay them if he doesn't give me the money. (We have already filed a personal and business bankruptcy)

We made a deal (based on what he TOLD me he was making each week) as to what he would deposit every Friday in our bank account.

Backing up a bit...he insists that our financial troubles are because I was not working after we closed down our business. This is a business that was making 150K a year...and we had to put it in bankruptcy because he spent it into the ground! (Actually I was doing tutoring after we closed it down)Then he said if I would just go back to teaching we would have enough money. So I taught in a private school for two years in a row...Anyone who teaches knows that private schools don't pay as much as public schools...anyway he bitched the whole 2 years that if I would just go to work for public school we could pay our bills. So last year I quit the private school and applied at the public school in our area. I substitute taught for them all year...sporadic until January then I finished out the year for a teacher who had to be out the rest of the year. Of course then, subbing wasn't making us enough money. I do have my application in for full time but right now there is nothing available for the upcoming year that I am certified to teach...so unless something opens up- I am going to be looking at going back to private school or subbing at this public school again until something full time comes open that I can take.

Anyways..back to the present...I told him that one of the actions I needed to see that we were trying to work on being financially stable was being met was if he would sit down with me and help me work up a budget. I've already done this- but I want him to see where all the money is going and that we SHOULD have enough to pay our bills. He agreed to do this with me...but the closer it came to actually sitting down to do it...he has been dragging his feet. The other day I asked him to bring me a paycheck stub so I would know exactly how much money we were working with. He got indignant and said no...that I would get the amount we agreed on and that was it. I let it go but then this afternoon I talked to him and told him I had everything out for us to sit down and work on our budget. I told him when he came in to bring in a couple of paycheck stubs...and once again he said no. I got mad and just told him to foget it and hung up on him. (Yes I know...I didn't DB very well!) When I got back from running I noticed that he had left a paycheck stub from June on the bar. Looking at the amount- it seemed pretty accurate to what he said he made...but then I noticed that it included a deduction for an advance. He had left in my car to go to town...so I decided to snoop in his truck (I know- not good DB either!) and rounded up all his paycheck stubs for the past 6 months. He has been lying to me in a BIG way about how much money he makes! He said he was keeping $100.00 a week for his personal spending...lunches, cigs, beer etc...Now- we've aleady argued that I think that is too much...BUT now from looking at his paycheck stubs I see that he has not only kept his 100.00 a week but anywhere from 100.00 to 350.00 a week MORE than the 100.00!!! I am so pissed!!!

We can't pay our freakin bills and he is lying about money just so he can have cash in his pocket! Then he's blaming it on me that it's MY fault that we don't have enough money because I need a BETTER job!!!

Other concerns...What the hell is he doing with 200 to 550 a WEEK in cash? Girlfriend? Drugs? Stashing it?

I can't even get him to fork over a 20 dollar bill when I ask for money!

Another concern- even with just what we agreed he would put in the bank we should be able to pay our bills and have some left over...But we still DON'T because he spends what he has and then starts screwing off what's in the bank.

And I've been feeling GUILTY because I haven't been applying at a million school districts because I wanted to stay in ours so I could teach where the kids would go to school. (We have homeschooled for 7 years & they were with me at the private school)

This is something that has ALMOST cost us our M before...and I just can't do it again...He refuses to go to any kind of counseling...financial or otherwise...

I'm open to suggestions because right now I just want to rip his head off...

[shinybear]

HI Sandra,

Where the hell IS everyone tonight??? You posted 5 hours ago for crying out loud! (At least it's 2 a.m. here)

WOW this is HUGE. Yeah, so, you snooped. He KNEW you wanted to do this budget, the first stub was just there...I'd have done the same thing. No apologies.

This is not just money, it is security, your kids, your goals, and LIES...I am getting a little enraged at the thought that he's been laying "you need to earn more" on you, while doing this.

Okay....few deep breaths....calming down....

How long do you think this has been going on?

How did he piss away the decent earnings you were making with your former business? Visible purchases, big toys and the like?

Is he out of the house enough to be having a drug problem you wouldn't detect? Is that a possibility given what you know of him? (I've had friends who blew $1000's up their noses back in the '80's).

You say you guys filed for bancruptsy...how long ago?

Is it possible he has some old debt he's paying off in secret?

Well now I'm just mindreading over here and offering no help at all.

What to DO??? I imagine this post will come to late, but your best bet in my books, would be to calmly approach your H, or wait until you're relaxing, and then just tell him you found his stubs and would he like to tell you about the advances?

Calmly if at all possible would be best! And if you can pull that one off, you'll get the Oscar.

Right now I'm kind of praying your H makes it through the night in one piece!

Shiny

[smokry]

WOW this is HUGE. Yeah, so, you snooped. He KNEW you wanted to do this budget, the first stub was just there...I'd have done the same thing. No apologies.

AND he brought in a stub that would look "accurate" unless I took the time to check it out...SO he was actually going to sit down with me lying about how much money we make and work up a budget based on false amounts!

This is not just money, it is security, your kids, your goals, and LIES...I am getting a little enraged at the thought that he's been laying "you need to earn more" on you, while doing this.

Thank you- I'm glad someone else actually "gets" this and I'm not insane!! I had some well meaning family member tell me a while back that he should be the head of the household and I should just turn all the finances over to him and let what ever would happen happen. She said maybe he needs to lose his home to really realize that he has a problem. Yeah right!! Problem with that is he takes all of us down with him and I just can't do that! Living in a cardboard box on the side of the road isn't very appealing to me! Nor is moving back in with mommy!!

How long do you think this has been going on?

The stubs went back to Feb 2003 so at least that long and probably longer. He failed to mention a little raise that he received and the fact that he is getting a montly bonus based on the amount the company earns!

How did he piss away the decent earnings you were making with your former business? Visible purchases, big toys and the like?

Oh yes...things like rv campers, waverunners, new furniture for the whole house, a boat, brand new truck and brand new conversion van- then there is the small stuff like running up 3 gas credit cards and numerous visa cards and buying cocaine (yes-another LONG story)I tried to reel him in - told him we were going DOWN but he wouldn't listen.

Is he out of the house enough to be having a drug problem you wouldn't detect? Is that a possibility given what you know of him?

After giving it some more thought...I really don't think that is it. I always knew before when he was doing that and I would know now...

You say you guys filed for bancruptsy...how long ago?

Is it possible he has some old debt he's paying off in secret?

We filed about 5 yrs ago...and no- I know he wouldn't be paying off any old debt because bills have never been a priority for him!

I imagine this post will come to late, but your best bet in my books, would be to calmly approach your H, or wait until you're relaxing, and then just tell him you found his stubs and would he like to tell you about the advances?

OOps! Too late for the calm thing...We had it out last night when he got home. I started off being calm...but when he admitted it and said he wasn't sorry about it because he was putting in the amount that we agreed upon- I lost it. By the way- I also found out that yesterday- Thurs, he got a 400.00 paycheck advance and today- Friday is payday! Now why the hell he needed to do that I don't know! He said we needed the money to fix his truck that he only told me was going to be 175.00

Through our "discussion" I came to the realization that he has been screwing off an average of $800.00 a month! Now here is what his excuse is..."well I dont' spend it all on ME- I give some to the kids for gas money, we buy beer (dude- we dont' drink THAT much beer), we buy bbq for the weekends, ect... For the life of me- I just can't see how all of that would add up to 800.00 a month!

I told him how could he get up on his soapbox and preach about honesty and how me lying about the A was so wrong when the whole time he was lying about something that is a MAJOR player in our M problems! Of course bringing up the A was NOT a good idea cause he jumped off of the subject which was finances and his lies and turned in all back on me and the A. I walked out of the room and told him I was done talking about it...that if this crap was how it was going to be then I was done. I refuse to be financially destitute and have no retirement, etc because he has a money probelm. To me this is as BIG as the A is to him!

He started backing up a little then and said we could work it out if I would keep treating him the way I have since we have watched Michelle's marriage tapes. Then he screws up again and says that he is willing to put more money in the bank if everyone else is willing to make sacrifices! I said like what and he said we need to sell the kids horses cause he is tired of buying feed! I guess we should just all give up everything we do- which isn't much so he can have his precious money in his pocket...God knows we want him to be able to buy his beer and cigarettes and have his clothes dry cleaned every damn week!

Then he said he would be willing to put more in the bank if he knew he could get out a 20.00 here and there when ever he needed it. Does he NOT realize (OK no he doesn't) that is what got him to the point where he has no credit cards, can't write checks anywhere, etc...because he would pop by the ATM sometimes twice a day and w/draw 20.00. Well it's JUST 20.00 he would say...but when you do it every damn day of the week...it adds up!

I asked him if he was willing to sacrifice some of his wants NOW in order to benefit in the future...We lost everything in the bankruptcy...all the "toys" were sold to pay bills...we now both drive 10 yr old cars that are paid for..we have NOTHING of what we had. He want's to get another camper and boat and has been saying- if YOU will get a job at public school we can afford that...and I told him last night that if he wasn't screwing off 800.00 a month we could have already bought other ones!!!

Then he said that I still needed a better job because the 800.00 a month wouldn't make a difference in us getting ahead. I said to him it doens't matter how much you make it matters how it gets spent...I mean if we can have a business rolling in lots of money and we STILL can't pay our bills it obviously (to me anyway)has to do with the MANAGEMENT of the money!

As it ended up...He agreed WE have a financial problem..of course not all DUE to him...and that WE needed to do something about it. And that he was willing to put more money in the bank if he could still have spending money.

He started his usual crap about trying to tell me he loves me but like I've told him before- that doesn't fix the problem- SHOW ME by helping me fix the problem. He started to follow me to the other room and I told him I was very angry and to PLEASE leave me alone. Normally he keeps on and we end up fighing worse...but this time he left me alone.(maybe a little DBing on his part?)even though he did make a rude comment on the way out the door.

I am going to call him later and tell him to plan on doing the budget tonight...and that we need to resolve this NOW. I'll let you know what he says...Hopefully (if this M is important to him)he will try and work this out...otherwise I am just about done!

[shinybear]

I think you did pretty darned well, there Sandra.

The finances are a touchy thing for me, too. Luckily CJ has no spending problems (other than OW related crap...grrrr!...but that's in the past). Thing is, until I took over doing the bills, crunching the numbers etc. we weren't able to save on pretty decent incomes. Now I track every bit spent: lunches, coffees, movies, it all goes down. I was a bit shocked to see how much of our monthly outflow is in the form of food!

CJ never let me see an actual pay stub...I worked with the net amount direct deposited to our bank. Drove me nuts though as the amount fluctuated quite a bit...he never seemed all that concerned.

He's still procrastinating on the 2000 taxes ($4,000 OWED to US) and hasn't done this year's yet either. Keeps promising to "get at it".

Wait! This is YOUR thread! ...sorry, just letting you know this would be a serious issue for me and I'm sure most of us! How did it go?

Shiny

[smokry]

, just letting you know this would be a serious issue for me and I'm sure most of us! How did it go?

Hi Shiny- thanks for your input and concern! OK well here is what happened...I'll give the abridged version!

We had a loooong talk about finances and worked on our budget together. I estimated high for expenses going out and estimated low for money coming in...and low and behold- even doing it that way- we make more than enough money to pay our bills on just H income!

He had a hard time realizing that... kept trying to add stuff in and "what ifs"(which is what the emergency fund we set up will be for).

He agreed to deposit his CHECK in the bank on Fridays...and only keep 20.00 in cash. I will make sure he has cigarettes and "adult beverages" for the week so he shouldn't need any more cash than that for the week.

We will see if he follows through this Friday...I'm hoping he does.

I am also looking into getting a full time teaching position at a private school in our area...our budget shows that we can make it without a 2nd full time income but in the event that we don't make it together-I feel like I need a job so financially I will be able to make it on my own plus it will allow us to put more in savings and get out of debt sooner!

I'm still hurt about the deception...but he did more sincerely apologize when we talked about it the second time. I am cautiously hopeful that he will do what he said. I made it quite clear that I simply could not go on this way and if we weren't able to make some changes then I would be done. He seems sincere in wanting to improve our financial condition. Though he was moody the past few days almost like he was sorry he agreed and was having money "withdrawals". He seems better today...

Other thoughts I'm having are that I feel that I have married outside of the will of God. And that we are "unequally yoked" so to speak. He certainly would not have been marriage material if I had not rushed into things and had taken the advice I give my daughters which is to not date anyone you wouldn't consider a potential mate.

With that said- I have a couple of choices. I can move on...or I can stick it out and try to make the best of the situation. What's done is done...we are married and have invested almost 9 years together. But I have had a revelation over the weekend. I am 37 yrs old and it's time to get it together. This has been a M full of turmoil and problem after problem and I just can't see living the rest of my life unhappy and miserable.

So what I have decided is that since he is willing to make changes and he is willing to try...then as long as our M is improving and we are continuing to grow then I remain. Should things revert to their former state then I won't be able to stay.

I am praying and trying to act "as if" because right now I really don't feel "in love" with him. I am comfortable that we are on a more even keel as far as communicating and not fighting as much (DBing helped us with this latest BIG money issue!)but I just don't feel all lovey dovey or anything like that. It's hard to put into words how I'm feeling right now. I am here and willing to keep trying but also feeling a little guilty that I don't FEEL like I'm in love...hmmmmm...I wonder if I'm expecting too much?

I'm starting to ramble...if I can get my thoughts in order, I'll add more later.