Thanks for the advice on posting to others. I've just felt so empty and lacking in advice that I haven't felt it was appropriate yet. Maybe I will give this a try though...
I guess my sitch just seems so negative to me, because it is a complete 180 from the H I used to have. He was always doting, loving, and would joke that if I ever left him he'd follow me around the world until I took him back. He said I was his gift, the love of his life, his princess... God I can hardly bear to type that now. I want so much to call him and tell him how I feel. This is the first day on which he has not contacted me at all, in any way. I really don't know how I am going to cope with this over the next 10 weeks. I can't believe how lucky I was, and how much I took it for granted.
In terms of what else Jody suggested, she said to use the counseling session as an opportunity to show that I was really listening, to show how strong I was, and moreover to say that I understood the need for the physical separation and that I was excited about Poland. I actually did all of that, and did it very well. I don't know how this might have impacted on H though, since he seems to have no emotions these days-at least towards me. She also said that during the lunch (yesterday) I should keep the topics light, act confident etc. I did this about 75%--there was no R talk, but I did mention things in our budget for a few months down the road to see how he would respond--the usual dreaded "let's just see". I tried for more physical contact than he wanted--tried for a kiss on the lips, and shouldn't have. Overll though, it went reasonably well.
OK I am going to look through others' posts now. Thanks again for your help.
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
ITH, I'm online from work, so if I've missed something above, please forgive me. I skimmed, but don't have time to read all of the posts.
I hate not having internet access at home.
My first big observation here is, your husband is suffering from depression. He may not appear to miss you and may appear to be happy with his choices, but his statements at the counselor's appointment make it apparent. He's depressed. He probably even feels worse than you do. He doesn't know how to show it or how to share it.
Another reason it's got to be all about working on yourself. You can't fix him, only fix you and hope he sees the way it helps you. You may have pushed it too far with the hugs and all that after lunch. Oh well. None of us is perfect. And really, when I was starting, my first couple of meetings with my ex involved teary-eyed pleas and fights. So, I'd say you're doing incredibly well.
You questioned whether voicing your hope that the marriage can be saved was a good idea during the counselor's appointment. I think you did just right. You validated him, and made it clear that door is open for you and you are committed. You're giving him his space while making it clear you want to be married to him. Nothing wrong with that.
Now for the time frame. My situation came to my attention blatantly in May of 2006. We all know that whatever the problems are, they go on for a looooong time before they're in the open. By December of 2006, my ex made a really half-a$$ed suicide attempt in the living room of my apartment. My divorce finally finished in the courtroom on January 3rd of this year. Because of her mental illness, I consider my situation to have passed smoothly, and somewhat quickly. And, that's one that ended up divorced. Look at how long JenJam, or Rob1231 (in the Piecing forum) have been here. And look at the work they still do every day. This is not a quick thing.
I think that any time frame you set for yourself is a mistake. You are looking to recreate a lifelong commitment. So, are a few years worth that investment? What's 5 compared to 50? That's why we all say to look at baby steps. Those are what you'll see for a long, long time. Any expectation that you'll find things back together in a set timeframe is going to be unreasonable.
Thanks. Actually as I type this I am sitting in the house with H. Why? Well he's going on a business trip this afternoon, and I'll be staying for 3 nights to watch the pets. We've been in the same house for a few hours now. It's been OK, as usual no deep conversation but talking about books, TV shows etc. I did briefly bring up a session in Boulder again with Michelle. This is the one contentious area that I really do want to push anyway, but am trying really hard to do it carefully.
We watched a movie together, and this was fine. I took the dogs for a walk, and I hung out with him while he asked advice on different shirts to wear with his suits. He went to take a nap though (personally I think he's exhausted from my company), wants to sleep for 30 minutes before he goes. It is all I can do not to crawl in bed with him, and until I saw your post, I was going to...However even if I got my way, I think this would set him back a good bit, and be seen as manipulative.
Yes the time frame thing is killing me. I am someone who really likes order and things to be scheduled. I completely agree though that even several years of hard work is worth it for a renewed lifetime commitment--just not sure if H will see it the same way. My time frame is more about the physical separation. I think I can handle anything, well almost, as long as we are in the same house. So I really want to get to ways for him to see that I can be supportive and let him work on his own stuff when I get back, even if I am still under the same roof.
You may be right about H suffering from depression. The positive thing there though is that he is doing healthy things, i.e. lots of exercise, and speaking to a DB coach (not to save the marriage, but just for individual support). I hope that these things will help get him back on the right, i.e. happy, track again.
Honestly your situation sounds extremely difficult, extremely trying. I am really impressed by how strong you seem now, and the fact there you're still here posting and giving support!
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
And just one more follow up since I need to share somewhere...he just left, got into the cab. He gave me a hug, and a brief emotionless peck on the lips--not actually sure who initiated that. He said "I'll give you a call". That was pretty lame, and sounds like some distant guy I would have dated in highschool, so not too thrilled. I also said--see you Friday, and he said "why?". Again--nice. We have a counseling session scheduled for Friday so I just reminded him...
So, now I'm in my house for the next 3 nights. I'm happy to be here, but at the same time it's so bittersweet because I need to act as if it is not my place anymore. I am so tempted to put little reminders of myself all over the house. I wonder if there is anything that I can do while here so that when he comes home on Thursday night, he will think fondly of me?
Ugh ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
"He was always doting, loving, and would joke that if I ever left him he'd follow me around the world until I took him back. He said I was his gift, the love of his life, his princess.."
yep - I had this too. Pre-bomb, my H was always kind, loving, telling me he loved me etc etc.
I agree with BigHands, he does sound like he's in some kind of depression. Mine was. He needed so much to work on himself and have a (long) break from me.
The reminders of you again to him will seem like you pushing. So will pushing for the C sessions - a real 180 would be for you to cancel them. Say you'll do them "maybe later - we'll see" (use his words right back at him, but not in a mean way)
I KNOW this is hard and I KNOW you will be thinking "what if he enjoys life better without me?" because I thought EXACTLY THE SAME. But you have to let go. Trust in the universe/god/buddha/whatever to make it right. Work on YOU and YOU alone.
So - let's start working on you. What do you think your part in the M crisis was? Do you like the way you are? Is there anything you would change about yourself? Is there anything you used to do that you have kind of let slide?
I want the answers to these Notice they are all about YOU. Let H go off in his wet nappy for now. On the boards here, we are only concerned with YOU right now - how you feel, how we can help YOU.
Bomb (ILYBINILWY, don't want to be married)Sept05 Seperated Sept/Oct 05 Oct 06 - H recomitted July 11 - I am now a WAW.
OK giving the answers--but just one thing on the MC and IC first. H actually asked me to set up the IC sessions without even a mention from me about the idea(he felt he really needed them), and has said he wants to do joint sessions too. The only thing that is pressuring him now in regards to counseling is me trying to set up the Boulder session--but I really really want to do this!!!
OK so my own part in the marriage crisis I feel is huge, and really the reason for the whole crisis. I did not give H enough space at all. He would go out late and I would text him multiple times. He wanted to do something, and I would suggest another activity. I always want to be active, so I wore him out with things I wanted us to do, without really noticing that they were often things he didn't like to do. I pressured him about where I want to live when we go back to the US, even though I knew he didn't want to live where I did, I somehow still thought it could make him happy. I always thought I was doing the right things to make him happy, e.g. cooking very elaborate meals, planning elaborate trips, sending nice emails and texts, bringing home little presents, when in reality these were not the things that made him happy.
I like the fact that I am able to plan and organize things so well, and usually my friends appreciate this quality during trip planning, BUT I don't like the fact that I am not good at giving up some form of control and letting others have input. This is something I really need to work on. I don't need to plan and orchestrate every single event...
In my mind there is always a start and end date/time for everything, and this is how I was about things like H going out, about things like making a decision about trips etc. This sort of goes back to my first point, but I probably need to work on dealing with ambiguity a bit better (sounds like something from the corporate world). I don't like the fact that I can't just have a day without plans, and I can't bear "I'll call you" from someone--would rather hear "I will call you at 130 PM to make specific plans".
What I had let go/given up was working out. I used to be really fit, and exercise all of the time. This slid when we moved to Dublin, for various reasons. In fact I think that both H and I got a bit depressed here. I am already working on this though, and have worked out at least an hour per day nearly every day since the separation started. In fact as I mentioned before I'm somehow back into my size 2 wedding year clothes!
I'd also given up having female friends here. I'd blamed this on Dublin, but now I realize that I wasn't trying at all. This past week I've realized how truly wonderful and supportive my coworkers all are, and it's too bad that I didn't realize I had this support network before. This is something I never want to be without again, and I will always make the effort to cultivate friendships--regardless of what happens with M.
Hope this answers your questions and thanks as always for the great support and knocking some sense into me!
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
Being an organized person can be seen by some as being a control freak. And, in hindsight, it's pretty easy to see. The organization isn't what does it, it's the reaction when things don't go according to plan. For me, I would flip out when MY plans weren't executed. After all, I created such a great plan, why wouldn't anyone go along with it?
No ego there, huh?
So, consider a goal for yourself to be letting go of that control and going with the flow. When your plans don't work, what's the worst that can happen? New plans. Exciting surprises. Adventure.
I am trying sooooo hard to let go of control. My big one right now is that we have a birthday trip planned for H on the weekend of September 4th, tickets paid for and everything. His usual line at the moment applies here, "let's just see-ok?" So, I sent him the info for the hotel, told him he needed to cancel 72 hours in advance if he decided he didn't want to go. I also bought a ticket home from Poland for that weekend, but said we could do something else if he decided against the trip. My goal now is not to bring up this trip again until 3 days before--after all at some point I do need to plan for myself too! This is a huge, massive step for me as I really live for my trips. If we do actually go, my next goal will be to not suggest anything the entire time!
ITH
Me:34 H:36 M:5 years T: 8 years Bomb: 07/17/08 I want to be separated for 6 months--I don't know what I want the outcome to be S 07/28/08-11/08/08 Living together ~7 months D Possibly busted?!?!!!
Notice they are all about YOU. Let H go off in his wet nappy for now. On the boards here, we are only concerned with YOU right now - how you feel, how we can help YOU.