Confused and Bewildered

[7 Year Itch]

OK, I have absolutely no idea what to think today. Help. What a crazy last two days.

So yesterday H took the girls to HSM. By the time they got back to the house after doing dinner afterwards etc. it was 7:30pm. Well D2 goes to bed at 8pm, and D6 at 9pm. Remember H is staying an hour and 15 minutes away. He was going to have them originally stay at his house Friday night, then bring them BACK down by where I live to take them swimming the next day. Well, by the time they got to the house Friday night, I said..... it's CRAZY to now put them BACK in the car, only to get there, put them to bed, then drive back here in the morning. So I suggested he just stay the night. I told him I had plans (which I did, my friend was over for dinner when they came home) and I had plans today so that I could be away.

He wasn't going for it. Then D6 had a TOTAL meltdown. She REALLY was tired and wanted to go to bed, but wanted to stay with DAddy. I told him he might as well just leave them at home at that point, and just come back in the morning. Then D6 melted down because she wanted to be with him.

I finally stepped outside with my friend to leave him to it. I'm always there to help "rescue" in those meltdowns ,and I decided he could deal with it. So we were outside, and next thing I know, D6 steps outside all happy and says Daddy is staying the night. My friend just looked at me and said she was going to go ahead and go and give us some privacy (she felt really uncomfortable, and I can't blame her).

So I left H to do the bedtime routine etc. and I went into my room. So he got them to bed, then came in and laid on our bed. He kept moaning in pain (I knew he was soar from football the two previous days), so I asked if he wanted me to get him his ice pack for his back. He said yes please. So I got that, then went back to working on my computer. He then asked if I'd rub his hamstrings. So I did, and of course one thing led to another (HE INITIATED) and we ended up ML. Then he had told D6 he was going to sleep on her floor for a fun sleepover (trying not to confuse her). Well, he never did. He slept all night in the bed with me. It was awesome. No cuddling ,but just knowing he was there was so great.

So then today........... I woke up, and left for my day of horseback riding with my friend. He told me he was so sore there was no way he was going go take them to the pool, so he was just going to stay here at the house with them. HE offered to do a few things that were needing to be done around the house while he was here. I told him that would be great but he didn't have to.

So I come back this afternoon, the girls are playing and we end up going in my room and talking. Yes, the dreaded R talk begins. I simply told him I really enjoyed having him in the house last night. HE was quick to tell me "nothing had changed". Then next thing I know he is grabbing me and initiating stuff again. Um, round two of ML.

So then afterwards, we end up with R talk again. And I feel good about what I said at least. I did NOT cry, I was not emotional, and I just simply stated that for 4 months I have been living in fear. Fear of what was going to happen, what he was going to do etc, and that I had recently had an epiphany and I didn't want to live in fear anymore. I told him maybe that is why I'm going ziplining and horseback riding etc (things I've been fearful of, or had bad experiences with in the past etc..). And that I have decided that I have NO control over what he does, and I won't live in fear anymore. That I still prayed we would get through this, that I still have total faith in us..... but that I had a new found belief in my future, and no matter what happened.... I would be ok. He then proceeded to tell me again, that he doesn't think I'm a bad person, he thinks I'm attractive, he thinks I'm a good mom, he has seen a LOT of changes, all positive etc...... but that he still isn't "feeling it" and he just doesn't think it's going to change.

I reminding him that it's a marathon, not a sprint. That it took him 2 years for his feelings to change from love to not loving me, and it could take a long time to get it back. But that I was in for the long haul because the outcome and rewards far exceeded the struggle of waiting.

In the end, he left at the end of the night. I hugged him good bye. While I hugged him I whispered that I hoped he could find a way to let me in just a little bit. That I knew it was asking a lot to let the person in to his heart again, who hurt him so much. But that I was asking. I then invited him to "not live in fear" with me.

Don't know if it had any impact.

But once again, I'm totally confused. I know everyone is going to tell me to remember to not listen to what he says, and only 1/2 of what he does, and I would tell someone else that too. Yet, I don't feel comfortable with that with him. I honestly feel like he IS being totally honest with me. We were totally open talking, no animosity, no crying. And I think he was feeling totally safe to be totally honest. And so it makes me even sadder, because I don't think he has feelings he just doesn't want to tell me about.

I'm so scared the we really are done. And nothing I do can make him love me again. How can so much be so right, and it still end? I just don't understand.

Chris

[maninmotion]

(((Chris)))
I'm sorry. It's very hard. What I find the hardest is when our loved ones make decisions based on feelings. I tried telling my W once that the feelings would return when she took action. For example, if I stop doing little things for her like bringing her coffee in the morning, I start taking her for granted and my feelings of love for her diminish. Well, this is what would happen in the past when I could do these things etc. So, I told her that as long as she sits around waiting for the feelings to return, she is ensuring that they won't. You are on the money that it took time for things to go away and it will take time for things to renew. As long as he continues to take action, I'm thinking that the feelings will return.

It seems to me that it's only been a couple of weeks since he started behaving a little better toward you. Baby steps here. You have pushed a little, now, back away again. The other ladies here could probably advise better, but, the next time he initiates intimacy, it might MIGHT be wise to refrain or perhaps turn it into some cuddling. Please get some other feedback on that one because I know that for myself, the most vulnerable and open I ever am is when we ML. So, when I initiate and she refuses, it can really hurt some times.

OH, and congrats on the job

Dan

[iamlost]

Chris, first of all, good job on no tears!!! I know how hard that is. And ML, and being close are good things, IMO. Lots of people here are jealous, including me.

Now comes the 2x4s! Just kidding, they're toothpicks, really. I think you're missing the positive signs for wanting everything NOW--In your first thread 2 months ago you posted this:

"H didn't love me anymore, never would again, was not attracted to me, and wanted a divorce...all I've heard over and over in the last 5 weeks is that he is done, he knows he is done, and he wants to just move forward."

Above, you post this:

"he doesn't think I'm a bad person, he thinks I'm attractive, he thinks I'm a good mom, he has seen a LOT of changes, all positive etc...... but that he still isn't "feeling it" and he just doesn't think it's going to change"

I see a BIG difference between those two quotes: 1, that's he's attracted to you again, and 2, he's seen positive changes and 3, there is doubt vs. resolve on being "done".

One last thing. I think trying to convince him with your words, having R talks, is only going to keep him defending his position, further entrenching it, not the opposite, which is what I think you intend. Maybe concentrate on having pleasant conversations with him instead, and let THAT do your convincing for you.

But otherwise you ARE moving in a positive direction and seeing progress, you should be proud. Keep it up!

[7 Year Itch]

MIM.... see that's teh part that is so frustrating. He is just sitting "waiting" for a lightning bolt of feelings of love to hit him. HE isn't getting the "work to bring it back" concept. And if he just sits waiting it's NOT going to happen and that scares me to death. I just don't know why he won't just try. I mean our interactions are not horrible. We can enjoy each others company. Why can he not just date and see for awhile?

Iamlost..... thanks for pointing out those thread differences. HE definitely has softened up, but when he says NOTHING has changed it just makes me feel hopeless. He hasn't brought up filing for a couple weeks which is huge, but after last night and him saying nothing is changing, I still feel it all hanging over my head. I just don't get how he can let go of something that is so right on so many levels. And I don't want him to live in a loveless marriage. Um, I don't either. But yes, for awhile........ can we not BOTH sacrifice and get this back on track?

I'm just so frustrated.

And for all my law enforcement wives in here, I found this article written by a cop and thought it was great. Thought I'd share.... http://constantsite.com/essays/general/Committed.pdf

Chris

[pisces9]

((((Chris)))))
those words are so painful- and i will say it and i mean this: believe nothing of what he says.

when he is talking R all you need to do is listen, validate and have VERY LITTLE feedback...he will be able to spew whatever it is and you can take it..no reaction..that means not even justifying or saying sweet things to him to make him "see" how good things are....he knows how good they are and he know how confused he is..he is speaking from pure confusion and his defense to protect himself and you is to say these things...that is what you need to believe the actions...

im not sure about ML - its a tough one to figure out...you know the answer to that one...

you are making good progress...please look at all the baby steps and list them here...look back to when this wasnt happening and ask yourself why these good changes are occurring...give yourself some strength!

ill read that article now

[JenInVen]

Chris

I have to tell myself some of the same things. I'll tell you one thing though sex is a connection and if he didn't feel a connection to you he wouldn't seek you out to ML.

Pisces is right look for the baby steps and go from there.

[7 Year Itch]

Anyone else wonder if we are just fooling ourselves. I mean really. I wish we really knew how many of these divorces are busted. I'm starting to have less and less faith that mine will be. I'm still here, still trying. But what if I'm just prolonging the inevitable pain. Prolonging this horrid limbo for my girls. My H is a good man. I think he's being honest with me. I wish he was NOT telling me things to protect me, but after talking yesterday, I'm starting to really doubt he will ever love me again, and it's scaring me to death.

How can I love someone so much, and yet he feels NOTHING for me? And yet we laugh, are intimate, respect each other, coparent beautifully. I don't understand letting that all go?

I'm starting to wonder when you know it's time to give up?

Chris

[JenInVen]

How can I love someone so much, and yet he feels NOTHING for me? And yet we laugh, are intimate, respect each other, coparent beautifully. I don't understand letting that all go?

Chris, I can't see him feeling NOTHING for you if you are still laughing, intimate, respecting each other etc. There's just no way.

[pisces9]

(((chris)))) it is hard to hear what you have heard but remember they are only words....what actions has he shown you that counter what he says?....there are too many for you to count...so dont take away al the progress from a few words ...

time to go back to your goals and make new ones- the FIRST signs things will be moving in that direction...small goals....it may be the same ones you had before but make them again....

and remember that which you focus on expands...so be careful with asking if this really is worth it and how many D's actually get busted...there are enough for you to have hope.

of course you have the right to be sad and fearful, but it only gets us so far... i know how hard this is and how sucky this is....remember to do things for yourself so no matter what you are stronger and more confident...

i just reread DR for the n'th time on my trip...the chapters on putting it all together and i think the last few really helped me get clear that this is worth it and not to give up hope....tomorrow is a new day!

[Changed Woman]

Okay, Ladies-

I've really been thinking about things lately. Chris? I just had a very similar situation happen with my H and I am feeling very beaten down and hopeless so here is what I've been pondering.....

From what I can tell, we all have similar stories....we didn't necessarily spend a lot of time showing H we loved him, making love, etc...maybe even treated H poorly at times which caused them to pull away and ultimately decide the R wasn't for them. All that said...when we were treating them less than kind what made us open our eyes and decided we REALLY WANTED THEM??? I don't know about you, but for me it was him making a decision to leave. All of the sudden I started pouring words of love and affection all over him...all acts that were completely the opposite of the way I'd been acting which caused him to leave in the first place. So a couple of things have been rolling around in my head:

1. I think they are afraid to be drawn in by our actions and then be hurt again. I think when they keep telling us how there is no hope...nothing has changed....it's too late...they are also trying to tell themselves.
2. I think after years of no attention, in a weird way they would never admit to...they like our desparate expressions of love...it gives them power.
3. I think the only thing that caused me to wake up and see I really did want him was for him to withdraw. Sooo...we do need to be careful...we certainly can't completely withdraw, but all the stuff in the LRT that talks about GAL and being a bit mysterious...causing H to think maybe they've lost us might help. Think about it...right now they don't have to spend one moment worrying about what things would be like if WE moved on...we keep telling them how we want the R and will always be here.

So I'm going to try something new (we'll see how long I can take it). I'm going to be very kind, vibrant, probably would even have sex with H if the situation were to arise, but I am going to put NO PRESSURE on the R. My stance is going to be that I realize he left for a reason and I can't argue that we weren't happy. I am going to absolutely NOT talk about the R...not even a little. If he tries to go there...my response is going to be "you know...I've spent a lot of time thinking about the R and I just can't do it anymore...you're gone that's a fact...let's just try and get along with one another". I am also going to let him know that maybe his decision was the right decision...just not one I could make.

What do you guys think?