Trixi trying to find moorage

[Dom R]

hey trix.. sorry aobut the so-so aniversary...

may as well put in my 2c here

I said "That seemed a bit like you were playing chicken with me" and he said "not chicken, chess- and your next move is really important. Better make it a good one." I kept staring at him and burst out laughing and he started laughing too. I flipped him crap and said "you couldn't even keep a straight face for that one!" and he laughed and said that he tried. Even though it came off like a joke, I think he was dropping the hint that I am still in the position of trying to 'win him' back.

that was interesting. and wierd.
he wanted SOMETHING there. but I'm not sure you understood what it is. I'm not saying I do either, though

Then he says (since the song is about spending time together) "It's not about the quantity of time we spend together, we spend quality time together." I said "Of course, I totally agree; [...]

BUnchacrap :p
"Quality time" over quantity time is a myth invented by people who feel guilty about not doing something enough... so instead of doing the right thing... they redefine what is right, to make themselves feel good about what they're doing.

your H is doing the same thing... and you made it seem like you're going along with his self-delusion.
Booo!

[Trixi]

your H is doing the same thing... and you made it seem like you're going along with his self-delusion.
Booo!

"Booo!" LOL Aren't we supposed to validate the WAS? I did add on that I want more.

Quality vs Quantity-- I can agree that people who want to relieve themselves of feeling guilty might use that. He's probably using that excuse to a degree, too. I do think he was trying to point out that we are *doing* things together; especially since one of his "fears" is that if I move back in we won't do anything; that I'll go back to being a bump on a log....Hey! wait a second! He ALSO said that he thought I 'only' liked 4x4ing because HE liked it and that if I moved back I would have our whole weekends planned. That is pretty much total opposite of 'bump on a log'. huh. Talk about a moving target.

Re him not saying ILY--since he used to say it, I don't view him as the guy where actions speak louder than words. Wait, that came out wrong...What I mean is that, of course actions are important, but I know he is perfectly fine expressing himself with words when he feels like it.

Yeah, he probably was looking for a particular response, but I don't have a clue what it could have been. I know that he probably expected me to get upset or 'up in arms' over the 'the next owners' comment. I mean, come on, he has mentioned selling the house awhile ago (but wants to wait for the 3% prepay to go away) and has said comments about upping the curb appeal. The curb appeal comments don't freak me out because all homeowners are aware of curb appeal and will talk about it even if they have no intention of selling...but now that I think about it, I wonder if he was dropping a hint that he plans to sell in a year. He does speak in 'vague'eries and hints. I wonder if he was counting on me to say "WTH do you mean, "next owners"?" and then he could tell me what he was really thinking. Normally, I *would* have asked- but he was starring at me so pointedly, I didn't want to give in.

Ugh.

OTOH, he gets choked up looking at pictures of us. I do, too, actually. Obviously not for the same reason as him....

He is SOOOO confusing to me.

[Dom R]

Quality vs Quantity-- I can agree that people who want to relieve themselves of feeling guilty might use that. He's probably using that excuse to a degree, too. I do think he was trying to point out that we are *doing* things together;

there is an expression on another site, of "settling for breadcrumbs" (instead of a proper meal, i guess is the metaphor)

I think he was saying, "see? i'm giving you SOMETHING, arent you happy? isnt that enough for you?"
and you said "yes!".
I dont think he heard anything more than that.

That being said... I think that, beyond the words exchanged, what you are actually DOING together now, sounds great!

I just wanted to say something, so you watch carefully for similar verbal exchanges in the future.

He is SOOOO confusing to me.

Yah, tell me about it.
my wife just got exponentially more confusing to me. insofar as trying to figure out what she's really going to do, long term. sigh.

Ugh. signed documents to buy out my wife's share in our home.
didnt feel anything for a while. i thought it was probably shock. i was right.
sadness is starting to accumulate now. and presumably, it's going to be worse, when the official "title document" eventually arrives.

I think I am feeling a small echo of what it would feel like if my wife decides to push through with finishing the divorce.
yuk.

[Trixi]

((Dom)) that sucks regarding buying her out of her share of the house. I would be hard pressed to see anything positive there. (I am in a bad frame of mind as you'll read below, so maybe someone on the sunny side of the street can see a positive aspect- or at the very lease neutral.)

Motocycle cancelled due to rain this weekend. We're supposed to rent it a different weekend when it's nice. He has been doing research on where we should go, so I feel confident that we will be going at some point. He also has to work on Friday night (was supposed to be tonight, but they weren't ready.) He and I are planning to do something Saturday- he suggested taking the jeep out. He's coming over for dinner tonight and we'll firm that up.

Turkey has been postponed for him until sometime in September. (Back in May he thought he would be going in June, it keeps getting delayed.)Earlier this week, he still thought there was a chance he would be going on Aug 15th. I can almost guarantee it will be during Retro and/or he won't commit to retro because of the possibility of going to Turkey. POOOOOOP!!!!!!!

This was posted on Donna...Found's thread:http://home.att.net/~velvet-hammer/makeitwork.html
On the one hand, I found it very validating; on the other hand, it made me wonder WTH I am doing.
Here's another page from the site the quotes pastor TD Jakes. Let them Go

Here's a quote from the site the particularly resonated with me: We must all try to regain our dignity and get on with our lives. Don't beg for a person to come back who doesn't want to be with you. You deserve better. You don't deserve second best. You don't deserve the unhappiness that a less-than-great marriage will give you. You deserve someone who is faithful, who treats you well, who is kind and considerate and makes you feel good about yourself. To stay with a person who constantly feels that something is wrong with you and who isn't nice to you is no way to live.

I feel like he may be giving me crumbs, but they are pretty big crumbs compared to what so many people here get. In fact, I almost feel like an ingrate because others are searching and hoping for "baby steps" from their spouse, and I'm "dating" mine. He is being 'just' good enough to me that I am willing to be strung along. He says 'just' enough good things to keep me hoping. After reading the above website, I wonder if I am simply in denial. Is there hope? I'm not getting any younger- do I hold on? What about "commitment" and "vows"? You know, for better or for worse? (This is definitely 'worse'.)

I am so disappointed the retro may not even be an option for us because of his work. I sort of had it in my head as a litmus test, know what I mean?

NikB, Minkerman, and SallyM all "made it" so maybe I am being too negative?

[Dom R]

Hey Trix,

retrouville is not the only option out there.
and as I said previously.. I dont even think it would neccessarily be the best for YOUR specific situation anyways.
Maybe you should start looking around for other "marriage in crisis" weekends. Maybe you'll find one that's even more appropriate for your specific situation.

as far as your "hold on vs let go" dillemma, my thoughts are thus:

There are at least THREE options for you, not two.
The choice isnt only between "beg, or let go".

At this point, you certainly have the option, of drawing a line in the sand, of "look you bastard, you cheated on me; that's NOT ok, and I'm NOT waiting around until you do it again, so make up your damn mind: grow up NOW, or i'm dumping your ass!"

I'm going to skip "begging", as I dont really see that as an option, though.

And then there's the "hold on" option. Which has a few varients.
(One of which is the, "get a life, and slowly start building an existance for yourself, that includes your H less and less")
The "hold on" options takes a lot of patience on your part, as you well know by now. And commitment. and all that.

It is "common" for people to give themselves a deadline for all this. for "hanging on". The thing is, the best way to actually END the deadline, according to the MC's that I've read on, usually finishes with the "ok i'm sick of waiting, grow up now or i'm dumping your sorry ass". So in some sense, its probably a matter of, are you going to confront him NOW, or confront him LATER
?

As far as commitment, and vows... I think that part, makes it so that you at least owe him to come to that point of confrontation.

If you think that at some point, you just wont give a damn if he decides to turn around, you're going to just "let him go" in [X months].... then decide that you will confront him sooner than that. while you still care.

In a lot of cases, i've read that a marriage ends, because the LBS gets sick of waiting and moves on to a decent relationship. Then the leaving spouse gets shut out.
So that's why the "confront him while you still care" caution.

Additional thought: In the examples of people you cited yourself... count to yourself how many of those people, actually got to the "ok goodbye i'm sick of waiting" confrontation.

yes, you risk the "I dont want to" possibility. yet there's also a risk to the "wait until your love runs out" aspect as well.
"ya rolls the dice, ya takes ya chances", either way it seems.

Gads, this was another long one from me... lol.
I think in your H's case, though..., that barring an "Act of God", you will be still sitting here in the same place another year from now, if you dont draw the line with your H.

----
In a personal note about ME... I just got a note from my lawyer, that the ongoing "OSC" motion about money, has been postponed from august, to october. So, I guess that's a sign that my wife isnt QUITE ready to push for finalization of divorce now that she pretty much has her payout money in hand.
I think.
Always difficult to tell with her. Irritating that she didnt keep her word and just dismiss it completely, though. She got the amount she wanted... she was supposed to dismiss the OSC. grrr.
waste of time and money.

[Dom R]

Oh! Important note!!!

I am not suggesting you try the "shape up or ship out" confrontation, as just a "tactic".
You should only do that, if you really mean it. If you really mean that if he says no, you're outta there.

Firstly, because I think saying it when you dont mean it, is ... well, wrong, for want of a more precise word.

Additionally, because it is said that "they" can tell when you dont mean it, so it would be worse than a wasted effort. damages your credibility if you arent prepared to follow through.

Hope you make the best choice for you, Trix.

catch ya later...

[NikB]

Dom - awesome advice.

And as one of the cited "examples" I wanted to say - we didn't have the "OK goodbye I'm sick of waiting" talk, per se, but we got to the point I was looking at condos and figuring out financials for our D. My heart wasn't ready but my mind and body were ready to move on and hope my heart caught up. I never SAID it but I think my actions probably showed it, at least to some degree.

When I got Bomb #2 one of H's complaints was that during our sep, he never truly felt he could lose me. After that bomb and my response, I think he wasn't quite so sure.

Totally agree with Dom, you gotta mean it if you're going to say it.. it's a tough one and you have to make the choice that's best for you.

((Trixi))

[Dom R]

Thanks NikB.

So, Trix, that makes at least 2 out of 3, i'm afraid.
i have no idea about sally... maybe it's actually 3 out of 3?

It's tougher when you have children, thou

[Trixi]

So much to think about.

Last night was Steely Dan in the rain. They were great and it didn't rain all that hard,so it was kinda fun.

H invited his roommate and his roommate's dad to come along (I had purchased 4 tix) so it was nice to *finally* meet who my H lives with.

I parked on the grounds, and H had to park in a shuttle parking lot. Near the end of the concert he goes "I'll just take the bus back [to his car], it's probably be faster than having you drive me." I looked at him like WTF? and he then he says 'I'll go with you; that's fine.' Gee thanks!! I said he could feel free to take the bus. phhhllpppp!

After the concert, we were going to go our separate ways (roommate was excited to get back to the house and jam) and so I drop H off at his car and within a few minutes get a call from him saying his battery is dead. I don't have jumper cables, but I go back to his car and take him back to his/our house. He invited me in.

So I hung out and listened to them play some songs. Ended up staying over night.

At the concert, roommate says something about how great it is in the backyard; so private so many birds and how much he just loves it there. (Grrrrr-MY house, damn it! It's MY marital house!!!) I nodded my head and agreed that it's really pretty there.

At the house, for the first time in a long time, I was feeling very territorial. Nearly everything ticked me off/made me sad. I looked around it was angry that I am excluded from the life *I* helped to make. H and I bought the house when it was still just a foundation; so we got to pick the light fixtures, plumbing fixtures, hard surfaces...well, on and on, WE picked out those things. Art I picked is hanging up; stuff I made for him is displayed.....

But as I watched them jam, I wondered where and how I could ever fit in? I know he loves having a roommate he can jam with whenever he wants. The roommate lives in my old "glass" room, the office is now the studio, a little itty bitty room is now H's office and the last bedroom is going to be given to stepson when he moves back out here.

I hate that they are smoking in the house. It is being well ventilated, etc, BUT gross!

Obviously, I still care a great deal and am not quite ready to give him a "step up or step off" speach, but I think I am getting closer to that point. I can't imagine ever NOT caring, but that's probably how all LBS start out.

I was pretty ticked last night that I paid for everyone to go, made food, etc and then the roommate would be the one the H would go play with afterwards. Hard to explain, and I probably sound like a big baby, but it's how I felt. I felt cast aside.

I don't think SallyM actually gave a "I'm tired of waiting" speech to her H- he was all hot and bothered to hurry up and divorce (although obviously conflicted)..BUT, he had found her here and could see that she was talking about moving on. That's 3 out of 3. huh. booger.

Dom, what is OSC?

[NikB]

i have no idea about sally... maybe it's actually 3 out of 3?

I believe hers turned around within weeks of her D.. she was definitely done and moved on and shocked when he changed his mind.

Of the 3 of us I was probably the least "done" and I was pretty darn close.