State of Mind

[BeingMe]

BTW, I have taken my ring off, and he has said nothing. I doubt if he's even noticed.

[Aud31]

Hey, I'm so very sorry about all of it...that kind of rejection is horrible (I received the same for 18 months, it hurt so badly), and over time... well, I can understand your feelings.

Why do so few people seem to see how insidious porn is? I know it's had a big influence in my sitch too. GRRRRR.

[whatisis]

BTW, I have taken my ring off, and he has said nothing. I doubt if he's even noticed.

Being Me, why have you taken off your ring? That strikes me as a bit passive aggressive. It's like hitting back at him without coming out and saying what you want to say. Just my thoughts.
You also mentioned that there were good times with your H and then zoomed off to rant about porn in the garage (and no, I'm not for porn in the garage or anywhere else!). I'm wondering what those good times were, what was different about those times, how did you make them happen, and yes I am social working you here! Now, how about trying the Miracle Question, ya know, you go to bed one night wake up and your problems with H have all been solved. It's a miracle. What would be different? What would be happening that would tell you the miracle has happened? Are there any small parts of that miracle happening now already? I'd also like to remark on the time a few years ago when you asked if lovemaking could be more "gentle" etc. I can tell you that as a male he would probably experience such remarks as criticism. What he did by shutting down is what guys do when they feel they are being told what they are doing isn't good enough!
Please don't think I'm being critical of you here, I'm just trying to be the devils advocate and throw some alternative views at ya! You've been through alot with this man and if you decide enough is enough, well that's good enough for me. But until you sit down and tell him it's over, I'm still gonna try
Oh, and checking in with a DB coach might be a good idea as they can work with you on the kind of ideas I'm trying to ignite here. If you want to try the Miracle Question on yourself why not try this website which has a great article on how to do it, sikt.nu, click Articles In English and then click The Miracle Question and The Miracle Scale...hope it helps.

[BeingMe]

You've given me a lot to think about here, Wii. I will try and answer as much as I can.

why have you taken off your ring

I took it off when I went to do some gardening, and just forgot to put it back. Then, I realised it was off, and he had said nothing about it. I have to explain that wedding/engagement rings was never a big thing with me/us. We exchanged cheaper silver rings at our wedding (spending the money rather, on our reception), and they have long been lost. It's only when he had the A, that I thought it might be a good idea that we actually buy proper wedding rings, to remind him that he was a married man. So, that is the only significance in our wedding rings, really. I just thought he would've noticed, and remarked on it. It just makes me wonder, is all. I guess I expressed it in a more dramatic way on my thread then it really was?

You also mentioned that there were good times with your H and then zoomed off to rant about porn in the garage

Sorry, for the rant on the porn ... I am just looking back and seeing how much I really had to deal with, and I guess I needed to vent. Anyway, the good times were generally those times when we had good family times with our kids. We had a really great social life in our home country, that we have not been able to create here in Canada. Having that probably got rid of a lot of stress in our M, that would've been more obvious if we didn't have that outlet. My H has always been very involved in the children's lives, and I will not take that away from him. As a husband, however, he has always been somewhat emotionally distant. There have been no real romance, even when we were dating. I chalked it up to his being the engineering/IT type, and just accepted him as he was. However, I have been looking back, and realising that he could've stepped up to the plate a lot more, and he sure expected me to do a lot of changing and accepting without returning the favour. He tended to put his friends ahead of me ... I can remember things his friends have said to me, and he did not correct them, or stand up for me. I am not perfect, but I believe I have always put him way ahead of any of my friends. I allowed myself to look past these things, but I won't anymore. (Ugh! There I go, again, ranting!)

Now, how about trying the Miracle Question, ya know, you go to bed one night wake up and your problems with H have all been solved. It's a miracle. What would be different? What would be happening that would tell you the miracle has happened? Are there any small parts of that miracle happening now already?

The miracle would be that it happened 2 years ago, but I will try and answer your question, anyway. What would be different is that we would be able to communicate more about our concerns (R, finances, children, etc.) without him thinking it's a confrontation. And, before you say I should try and change how I communicate, let me say that I have tried everything I can think of ... emailing, phone, straightforward, gently, reverse psychology ... you name it, I've tried it. He always either listens, then ignores, or might say something small, and then ignore, or just ignore. The common theme is IGNORE! Now, if he could actually make me feel like he took in what I have communicated, then communicate back to me, and I see some action on his part ... that would be a fabulous change in our R. I have often asked him why this is, and he would say he doesn't like confrontation, or that once I tell him what I want, then he doesn't want to only respond then because it would seem like it didn't come from him. Well, it seems my needs don't get met whether I state it or not. So, there would be a brilliant change. I feel like I have to be able to read his mind, and he is always telling me that I should tell him what I want, but when I do, he ignores it. That is why I told him that I would like some gentle, romantic sex (heck, I won't even say ML) ... I should've known better, but I thought we were trying to save our M, and that things were going to change. Funny, how when he has a need, he is fine with expressing it (like something different in bed ), and I have tried to give him what he wants (not anymore, I won't), and I don't get all "I feel criticized, or that what I was doing wasn't good enough". Uuuuuugggghhhh! So, it would be nice if I said what I like in bed (or anywhere else), will not be construed as criticism, especially when I was told to express those wants.

The parts of the miracle that are happening now is that he is still in the M, is affectionate to a certain degree, and contacts me on a daily basis. We do still go on our weekly date, and we go for a ride on his bike occasionally, which is fun. It all seems like such a farce, and a bare minimum. I am tired of the crumbs.

See, how frustrating it all is with this man. I CANNOT win. He is the passive-aggressive person in our R, and I am sick of playing this game.

Please don't think I'm being critical of you here, I'm just trying to be the devils advocate and throw some alternative views at ya! You've been through alot with this man and if you decide enough is enough, well that's good enough for me. But until you sit down and tell him it's over, I'm still gonna try \:\)

I don't think you're being critical, Wii. I appreciate the time you took to give me your opinion. I have sat him down many times over the last couple of years, since the A, and expressed how I was feeling. It doesn't help. I am tired of fighting for this M by myself. So, I will tell him, eventually, that it is over, but I am just trying to think of how to do this without causing too much pain to my D15. I would still like to be on friendly terms with my H too. It is not an easy thing for me to break up my family. I have tolerated a lot to prevent that. My H is not abusive. I think he is just not a very empathetic person, and just unaware of how he treats me. He is a great guy in that I don't think he would want to see harm come to me, and would be fair in a D (I think). However, he is prone to telling lies (at least, he was), and I surely don't really trust him anymore. Certainly not on an emotional level. I have withdrawn into myself, and don't feel love for him at the moment ... I assume this is a protective mechanism.

I am going to give myself the next three weeks to really think about this, and try and come up with a strategy for either fixing the M, or ending it on good terms. I can't live like this for much more than 2 years. He has been given far more chances than anyone should expect, and he still doesn't get it. And, now I just want out. Maybe, our personalities are just too different, and we'll never be able to work it out. I must face that possibility, and accept it, I think.

I will check out the articles. I would prefer going to a C in person. Talking about this on the phone would not be my cup of tea.

[BeingMe]

Thanks for checking in on me, Aud. I really appreciate it. The porn thing was a big deal for me. Because he knew how I felt about it before we got married. He did, eventually, go into counselling and seemed to get over the addiction. But, it was a huge thorn in our M for more than 10 years.

Take care.

[ACJ]

BM,
I understand your concern for your D15 and her not getting hurt. The reality however is that she will get hurt no matter how you end your M (if indeed you do).

As for your H being a nice guy and being reasonable in a D. That's exactly what I thought about my H but look at what he is doing to me now.

FWIW I understand your pain but the phrase 'damned if you and damned if you don't ' very much springs to mind in your sitch.

Good luck

[BeingMe]

'damned if you and damned if you don't '

So true! Still, it would be nice to be one to decide my own destiny, and make my own choices ... not my H. Too much of our life together has been dictated by his needs, wants, aspirations, desires, MLC, and then he tops it off with this lukewarm reconciliation. He may not think it, but he has been very controlling, in a passive way. He may not demand, but he sure knows how to get me to do what he wants. And, I do it out of caring, and wanting him to be happy. In some cases, I have not reacted very well to the negatives in our M, but overall, I think I have been a pretty darn loyal, patient, interested, and passionate (if not always loving) W. I think I deserve at least that in return.

Anyway, I can feel myself coming out of the doldrums, slowly but surely. I don't usually stay down for very long, and always find something positive to look forward to, and I am getting very excited about going back to school, and looking forward to a new interest (dare I say, passion) in my life.

Yay, me!!!!!