You asked me to stop by regarding being open to my W reaching out to me. I don't remember exactly what I said that caught your attention, but I just read through your whole thread.
I'm going to be honest - I don't think the advice I have to give is what you want to hear, because I think you've been trying to paint a different reality for awhile. So be warned that this is a 2x4 but know that I think you sound like an amazing woman with a tremendous amount of inner strength.
First I'm going to remind you of some tremendous advice already given to you - this post by Saffie and this post by Alimarie. If I were you, I'd re-read those posts and really think about them.
Second, I'm going to post an article that breton39 posted. It has helped me think about my W's A, but I think it'll help you even more because your H has some serious problems. He needs to choose to address those himself, not by you trying to cajole him into dealing: Beyond Betrayal: Life After Infidelity.
Third, I'm going to post a link to an article written by a woman who stayed in denial about her H's A for awhile and still ended up Ding. I'm posting this because she talks about sacrificing yourself - your hopes, dreams, LIFE - to a spouse who will only continue to complain that nothing you do is good enough. There is no way you can ever win. Be warned, it's a fairly negative article and I don't believe things have to be as bleak as the picture she paints. The tools you can learn in DB is one obvious way to find a rosier picture. But I think what she says about sacrificing yourself is valuable to hear and fits into MWD's message of concentrating on making yourself happy. Here's the article: Can I Save My Marriage?
All of that said, I see you focusing exclusively on the M. I see you engaging in nothing but R talks with H. Maybe it is how you write about your sitch, but this is definitely NOT what MWD writes about. You should stop focusing so much on the M and your H in the M and start focusing on yourself and making yourself happy. I mean, the only thing you have is yourself and your kids, right? Why do you want to be in a M where you have to try so hard? That means it's not working. And with multiple As having occurred, the only way anything will ever work is for your H to WANT to try as hard as you are. He's not. Nothing is good enough for him.
And one of the reasons may be that you're letting him walk all over you. He can get away with anything. Does that make you look attractive in his eyes? I'd think the answer would be no. But the more important question is, is this the kind of M you want? Do you respect him? I hope the answer to that is a big fat no. You can be loving, you can leave the door open and shine a light back to your M. But you should set an example for your children that his behavior is unacceptable.
Lastly, I'm going to point out that the two of you appear to be in a horrible cycle of game-playing. The "lying in bed with backs turned to each other," or the "he reaches out to me but I won't respond even though I want to" .... that's not good. That's an ingrained pattern of behavior that probably helped create the problems in the first place. These are cheeseless tunnels and you know they don't work so why do you continue to go that route?!
I know this probably isn't what you wanted to hear from me, but I think you should hear it. Maybe it's the wrong advice - I don't really know your sitch but only what you wrote. But I hope what I've written is useful to take into consideration.
I'll post one last article because it is a message of hope. I want you to think about how the woman responded to her H's A, though: Working It Out.
Hang in there - you're a good person who has done a tremendous job in the face of very hard and painful circumstances. I think you need to be a better friend to yourself, though, and recognize that you deserve a certain amount of respect. You don't have to throw H to the curb, but you don't have to pander to him either. Learn to love yourself so that others can love you better.
IMO. Sorry for the 2x4s. lodo
PS - forgot to mention that a lot of stuff in the articles and other posts will seem to contradict each other. Do they really though? Think about that. I believe it all has to do with sequence - how does stuff happen, in what order, and in what time period. In DR there is an example sitch - maybe in Pulling it together? - anyway, it describes a woman who decides to focus on herself, not H and his A or what he needs to do to fix himself. Maybe that framework would be a good one for seeing how these things aren't contradictory. Okay - sorry for the WAY too long post!
Oops - darn cut and paste! Here's the correct link to Can I Save My Marriage? Again - it's negative. I think if someone uses the tools in DB it doesn't have to be as bleak as she paints things, but I also believe she brings up a healthy dose of reality. Bottom line - make yourself happy and if that puts you back on the road to saving your M, great.
You've got a lot of advice to digest sweetie. I hope maybe a new perspective may help spark some creative solutions that can gently nudge you toward helping you and your kids get the happiness you deserve.
I'm thinking about you and will be here when I can. I wasn't being quiet for the reasons you think. Yes. I hate your husband right now, but that's not it. I don't want to hijack your thread with my problems but I've been faced with some personal challenges (ok, it's kid's health related) that have just kicked my butt this past few weeks. I can't believe that those who try the hardest to do the right thing can just get their dreams pulled out from under them.
Meanwhile, I hope you kayak your little arms off and laugh and meet people. I hope you keep seeing the beauty in the butterflies that fly in your gardens... Live, honey, live your hardest. You'll be okay.
imt, With all you are going through and having to consider I wanted to thank you for posting to my thread. I hope you still will be in the KLA 2008 group. With your H still at home it seems as if you have something to work with. Also, I would enjoy getting to know you better.
I haven't been able to read your entire story but I am struck by the similarities between us. (Yes, I grieve for the earthworm who I accidentally bisect with my spade. When using the rototiller I often reach ahead to relocate any hapless insects that I see - especially the mother spider who is frantically moving her egg sac.) Our situations seemed to have many commonalities. We both are less than appreciative of our H's spending hours playing video games. I could never understand my H watching a Three Stooges movie for the umpteenth time on a beautiful Saturday morning.
Me: 59 H: 59 Together: 28 years Married: 25 years in August "There may be someone else" 12/26/07 H signed a one year lease 4/1/08 H moved out 5/11/08 H beginning to show a tiny amount of interest 7/5/08 Is it possible that he is courting me? 9/30/08
I'm sure different people have different opinions, but my definition of boundaries tends to be personal. You don't need to have a R conversation to set a boundary - you examine your own values and feelings of self-worth.
In my sitch there were some things that I decided I was willing to forgive and other things that went beyond the pale. I'm sure Puppy over in Infidelity would say that I was willing to forgive too much, and he's probably right. But when my W asked me to wait 6 months while she tried to make a R work with OM, I told her she'd crossed my ethical and moral boundaries and I wasn't willing to put up with it anymore. We've been on the road to D ever since, but I can feel better about myself.
It has always helped me to write things down. What I needed, what I expected, etc. Maybe that would help you clarify things for yourself?
Better Relationships and Effective Communication By Lorna, 19 March 2006
Taken from the online Library
Seven Guidelines for Great Relationships and Better Communication
1. Accept your partner 'as is.' Avoid blaming. Determine that you are in your relationship to enjoy yourself, not to try to fix, reform, or straighten out your partner. Be responsible for your own feelings. Allow yourself to influence your partner, but do not demand that he or she must change. Also, give her or him the freedom to influence you. Yes, to persuade and inform you.
2. Express appreciation frequently. Avoid steady criticism. Acknowledge your partner often for small things. Find, discover, or even create things you really value about your partner. Say them. Honesty is important here. Avoid the main relationship 'killer' - frequent criticism of your partner.
3. Communicate from integrity. Be honest regarding beliefs and evidence that conflict with your own views of what is happening. When your partner is right, admit it. Be both honest and tactful. Allow different perceptions to exist. Agree to stop penalizing each other for your honesty as you now often may do. Agree that both of you will be honest and let the other 'get away' with honesty.
4. Share and explore differences with your partner. Explore disagreements with your partner to move toward a higher resolution that accepts parts of both your views. Or, to agree to disagree. Additionally, be ready to compromise without pretending that you agree when you really don't agree.
5. Support your partner's goals. Don't surrender your own integrity and your own important desires and views, but go as far as you honestly can to support your partner even when you clearly disagree.
6. Give your partner the right to be wrong. Respect both of your rights to be fallible humans- your inalienable right to make mistakes and to learn from your own experiences and errors. Don't honor only your own right to be an error-prone human!
7. Reconsider your wants as goals that you may achieve later. (This is a guideline that enables you to work properly with the other six guidelines.) When you don't get what you want or desire, remind yourself that you don't have to get what you want, now or ever!
Note: Choose to practice the Seven Guidelines as a unilateral commitment regardless of what your partner does or doesn't do. Each time you have not succeeded, look to discover a mistake you may have made. You also may have something significant to learn about your way of talking or listening.
Tips for Learning and Using the Guidelines
To start you off, here are three simple tips:
Tip #1: Learn 'by littles.' Take one small bite size piece to 'master' at a time. Don't overload yourself by trying to learn these Seven Guidelines all at once.
Tip #2: Test our assertions, one at a time. Test our claims to prove to you that the Seven Guidelines are valid. Or to prove them false. Be willing to rework our guidelines to make them more understandable or workable for yourself.
Tip #3: Make continuing small improvements in your understanding or use of the Seven Guidelines every week. Aim for improvement, not for perfection. Persist!
Taken from the book, Making Intimate Connections, 7 Guidelines for Great Relationships and Better Communication by Dr. Albert Ellis and Ted Crawford
