Really upside down #2

[Neilh23]

I've been thinking to myself that I need to be that guy that attracted my wife. Funny, though, I don't remember being that person. I don't know HOW I was, or what I did.

actually, i believe you do. Just be yourself.

I think I already know the answer, but....what's the harm in asking our S at some point for some specific memories or things in general that attracted them to us? I think that may fall under R talk, but not sure since it's just "what do you remember?"

you answered your own question. so what do you do?

And lastly....I'm not sure what to do. I'm still having a hard time deciding whether to let her initiate everything. I did call her two days ago just to say Hi. (She had complained that I can never do that without talking about the same R talk). She seemed annoyed and short on the phone so I ended the conversation quickly. I made sure I said "well, I just wanted to see how you were doing"

well, if that's the case, how would you do a 180? I think you already did....but IMHO....let her initiate things are awhile. Difficult, yes, but necessary. Give her space and time to sort her stuff out. AS bad as we want this, you only make it worse by pursuing her. She thinks you calling is pursing. Don't do it.

Today we had the shortest ever email exchange:

W: "how are you?"
Me: "Wonderful, and you?"
W: "I'm great! :)"

....ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooK. What was THAT all about?

don't waste your energy/time thinking about it. Live for the moment. that's what Bworl told me to do. Stop analyzing every little interaction that you have with your W. Just take it that she wnated to see how you were...and that's it.

stay strong....

[upside_downer]

As I was trying to fall asleep last night, I remembered there was a sitch about 1-2 months prior to my W making the decision to move out. We were arguing about something and I said to her over email "Do you think you should move out?" It was a legit question at the time because I felt that was coming (and knew her cousin had sent her a link to an apt. in email which I wasn't happy about cuz I feel like he feels our R isn't any good, so he does things like that to force his opinion). I didn't mean to say it as a suggestion, I was merely asking. She took it as me saying "you should move out." She was very against that idea. I asked her why and she said if things were going to get fixed, moving out won't solve anything. Then a month later she moved out. Interesting how THAT played out.

you answered your own question. so what do you do?

I didn't, really. I'm still not sure if asking that question is a good idea. I think the answer would help, but would asking hurt more than what you gain from the answer?

And lastly....I'm not sure what to do. I'm still having a hard time deciding whether to let her initiate everything. I did call her two days ago just to say Hi. (She had complained that I can never do that without talking about the same R talk). She seemed annoyed and short on the phone so I ended the conversation quickly. I made sure I said "well, I just wanted to see how you were doing"

well, if that's the case, how would you do a 180? I think you already did....but IMHO....let her initiate things are awhile. Difficult, yes, but necessary. Give her space and time to sort her stuff out. AS bad as we want this, you only make it worse by pursuing her. She thinks you calling is pursing. Don't do it.

Bworl, you used to think I should perhaps do a little pursuing. Do you still think that?

[Bworl]

You can do anything that you feel comfortable doing.

The key I think is in really trying to read her response, without appearing to be reading her response.

If she's cold to your approach, back off and try again another day.

No expectations. THAT's the one that usually trips us up here. If you pursue and she rejects, are you ready to let it roll of you like you're made of teflon?

You be yourself, whatever that entails. I assume at some point that she was pretty good with who you are.


Bill

[upside_downer]

Yes, the key being "at some point." That point is not now, so I have to be careful. Thing is she seemed cold to me when I called, but that could have been from being upset with me because we got into that R talk and she ended up being mad.

I don't like the child-like feelings I have. She sent me an email today asking "whatcha doing this weekend?"

That was at like 9 AM. It's now 2 PM and I haven't answered. I feel like not answering just so she sweats it a little, wondering what I am doing.

Childish, and prolly bad, huh?

[Bworl]

Lol. Yeah, there's a little bit of the playground in that approach.

Look, on the other hand, there's no need to be sitting by the phone waiting to hear from her and pouncing to a return call/message.

But I think getting a message at 9 and holding off till 2, on purpose, just seems little silly.

Where is the casual, easy going you? You're still allowing this whole scene to consume you. You're overthinking, reaching for the magic pill in the form of a response or action that will make this all better.

You know better than that.

Do you know yet that you will have a hell of a life without her if she chooses to end the marriage?

Do you?

I don't mean the concept of the idea. I mean that it is a part of you, you can feel it in your guts. Because THAT is a truly powerful place to get to.

And no, you don't have to stop loving her to get there.

You just have to be willing to take on only the things YOU can control. You have to be willing to let go of the things you can't.

Have you made yourself an even better man yet? How's your confidence level? Is it still being bogged down by her actions?

LET

IT

GO


Live your life. I don't know how else to say it. Make you plans, do your thing.

She is the object of your affection - NOT the woman who walked out on you. What do you do for an object of affection?

I don't think you wait 5 hours to respond to an innocent text message.


Blessings,

Bill

[upside_downer]

[quote=Bworl]

Look, on the other hand, there's no need to be sitting by the phone waiting to hear from her and pouncing to a return call/message.

In a way, I felt good not feeling like I NEEDED to communicate with her. It felt empowering.....but was still kind of rooted in feeling like making her sweat.....dang.

Where is the casual, easy going you? You're still allowing this whole scene to consume you. You're overthinking, reaching for the magic pill in the form of a response or action that will make this all better.

Little by little, I'm becoming OK with it. It's the small things that have attachments of expectations that get to me. I'm learning how to deal with those and trying not to attach expectations.

Do you know yet that you will have a hell of a life without her if she chooses to end the marriage?

Yes. I like what I'm doing right now. I just have a void. But it's not like a void of emptiness. It's a void where something is dead and taking up space. I can't fix, fill, or really do anything about that void because I'm not the one calling the shots. She is. I would love to put something nice and fun into that void, but I can't because nothing will fit right now. Nothing like feeling like it would be fun to date, but not being able to because you have this nagging feeling in your head that it isn't the best thing to do right now. Unfortunately, having a partner is very important to me. I'm dealing with co-dependency.

Have you made yourself an even better man yet? How's your confidence level? Is it still being bogged down by her actions?

I'm a better man. Little by little. My confidence with everything else is in check. It's just this sitch that I struggle with. Things are not bogged by her actions. They are bogged by the crappy info I have from snooping. Then amplified by her actions/inactions.

I want to stop, but it feels like an addict. I'm obsessed with knowing the things she won't share with me so I take them. That's terrible.

So much indication in every little thing that she is done and just won't admit it. Not only that, but her cousin's H isn't helping. He feels we are not right for each other, and he has her ear (since he is 1 of 2 people that she trusts). He says little things like "your smile is back." Things he said when she met me. Things he means now that you are out of the house, now that you aren't dealing with him anymore and he's not really part of your life, your smile is back.

I can't battle that.

BTW, she read my mail. Just never responded. Now that is rude.

[Neilh23]

I'm a better man. Little by little. My confidence with everything else is in check. It's just this sitch that I struggle with. Things are not bogged by her actions. They are bogged by the crappy info I have from snooping. Then amplified by her actions/inactions.

I want to stop, but it feels like an addict.

that's the funny thing...me too. i'm confident in every other area of my life, except this one. NOw granted, i haven't snooped on her in quite some time and have limited contact with her to brief conversations whenever we exchange the kids or call at nite. However, she still does ask how things are......

It does feel like we're addicts. LIke we NEED them...physically, emotionally, etc. However, that's why detaching is so good. People tell me that sometimes it just clicks into place...i'm not sure if it did for me, but it sorta feels like it. Of course, i know when i struggle with it...when i have my kids, and i wonder what she's up to.

Here's my advice about the snooping stuff....sometimes, ignorance is bliss. and regardless if your W is with someone else, what says she can't change her mind? YOu can help her do that by becoming the best person YOU believe you can be. If she doesn't bite, she doesn't. That'll be her loss.....do this for you.

stay strong...

[upside_downer]

I made a discovery this morning. I'm a DAM.

I spoke with the W this morning and we were talking. I didn't bring up R talk, but I did mention that I was trying to get things done in preparation of selling the house. I made a comment and asked for feedback about where I would be buying a place. I made the comment that I'm not sure what to do because of our sitch, I'm not sure if I should be looking for myself, or whatever. That, in a roundabout way, was R talk. DUH. How did I not know that?

Well, I know it now because she said "I don't want to get into this kind of talk again with you today." That's when the lightbulb went on. I said I didn't either, and tried to get out of it.

The good thing that came of it, is that she told me that she still feels uncomfortable when we are together because we always get on some kind of R talk. She says she wants to be able to call and just talk, but that she can't because I always have an agenda. She's totally right, too. I NEED to stick to not talking about anything right now that has to do with our R.

I also asked her about the wedding shower for my cousin that she is attending. She was very on the fence about going because it would be uncomfortable. She decided to go. I thought that was weird because the same uncomfortable feeling is why I can't go to the wedding with her. She even said "it's still going to be uncomfortable since I'm going alone" and stupid me should have validated, but instead I said "Are you kidding? You've been hanging out with all those people for a while now, so what's the difference?" That was certainly not validation. Thanksfully, I wanted to say "so if you are going to feel uncomfortable either way, what's the difference if I go?" but I didn't.

So....although not the best convo, but I got some hints as to things I need to work on.

She didn't say anything about the moving thing. I asked her where she would like to move and she named a place, but I can't take that as her actually wanting to move with me.

[upside_downer]

Here is my question of the hour:

When you are dealing with a WAS, and they tell you they just want to be able to talk normally, or just say "hi," how do you make those conversations worthwhile? From my experience right now, when I'm trying to keep things "light" I say hello and let her respond. I ask how she is and I wait for her to respond. After that....I'm tempted to end the conversation.

How long before they realize you are just trying to be friendly? How much is too much? I know some of this is variable and subject to a specific sitch, but any of you go through this where you couldn't stop talking about the R, and had to try to just keep the conversation light-hearted?

[Neilh23]

UD-
oh yes. It took me quite awhile to NOT talk about the R. I think about a month after we physically separated did i just decide to stop. It wasn't getting me anywhere, and i felt like i was running into a brick wall. Now, that was before i found this place. Have I had any R talks since i found this place? Yes. It's normal. Almost like checking up on your progress to see if their feelings have changed. and guess what? Verbally, no they haven't. However, if we remember that actions speak louder than words....my sitch is a heck of a lot better, and my R is better. Is it where i want it to be? Nope. But, and here's the catch, it's going to take time. We have alot of time. And this thought seriously just occurred to me....i would rather endure this time of pain and suffering to get to happiness with my W than to never have the chance to experience the happiness i deserve to have with her. Look at Smartcookie. Look at Twindad. Look at all the other people who have endured.....and won.

I guess what i am saying is that just go with the flow. Let her initiate any R talks. Maybe it'll seem forced for awhile like you're forcing yourself to just be friendly. But that's where it all starts. Michelle said start with a beginners mind. That's really where we do need to begin. AGain.

ya know?