Hope4us struggle, part 7

[whatdidido]

If she is crying, why not ask why she was? A chance for you to hear her feelings and you to share yours.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I do try to remember Kat. I appreciate the reminder. I know it's not going to get better as quickly as I'd like, but I just have such a hard time with her seemingly lack of remorse. But I also know W is such a stubborn hard head that she may be feeling those things, but to admit it to me would be the worst thing in her mind.

Last night while I was sitting there watching the Tour de France she was reading a book and sniffling quite a bit. I took a peek out of the corner of my eye and it looked like she was crying some. I don't know that for sure, but it looked like it. So maybe she's just not able to deal with the fact that she caused this and doesn't know what to do to get out of it.

I know not to get my expectations up too high waiting for a response to the email, but again, it will go a long way towards how I proceed.

Here's the challenge, as I see it (and I'd love to get WDID's perspective on this from the other side):

Unless your wife reaches out to you, shows some remorse, and shares some of her inner conflict with you, you are in no position to demonstrate to her that you CAN handle it, and still love her and want to be married to her. KWIM? I sense that she probably feels shame, and foolish, and wonders if you could ever love her again after what she did, and yet she's not giving you any CHANCE to show her, either, by the way she pushes you away.

Fold into this my concern that she has STILL not shown any sort of deep introspection (books, etc.) to be able to begin to heal herself and help heal your wound.

Fold into all of THAT is possible still occasional contact with OM (even if it's not romantic, and I don't think it is) and LOTS more "drama" communication with EGF, and you've got a powerful recipe for a STUCK MARRIAGE with two deeply hurting partners, each unable to reach out to the other to help them heal.

I think Retrovaille would be ideal, because it focuses on COMMUNICATION/DIALOGUE, and THAT is what's missing from your marriage right now, buddy.

Puppy

[Hope4us]

I agree COMPLETELY with what you've said Pup. I really feel that she feels like she's stuck in a place where she doesn't want to take the chance on opening up to me because she feels like I'll beat her over the head repeatedly with the affair/OM. That's why Monday night while we were talking about the deposition I just told her the things I knew about OM without any kind of judgemental tone in my voice. It was more like a "I know you don't want to hear this and might not believe it" kind of conversation. I guess I figured that was what the TM's to the EGF were all about. W found out that OM was lying to her at least the last 4 months of their "relationship" and it hurt so she had to vent to the EGF.

I also now see it as her coming to grips with OM using her and she just doesn't know how to get past THAT. For her to admit to me that she F'd up and now she realizes OM was using her would be to admit that she's possibly thrown away everything we have together, FOR NOTHING. And that's got to be a hard thing to deal with.

When she came home last night she came out on the deck where I was sitting and just stood there for a few minutes. It was almost like she wanted to say something, but couldn't bring herself to. And later she came out to smoke and I got the impression that she again wanted to say something but couldn't bring herself to. Maybe I should have said something, but I really think it would have been a mistake. She has to be the one to break the ice if she ever wants us to have a chance. Of course, this morning with my email I'm trying to give her the opportunity to break that ice so we'll see how that goes.

I think Retro would be FANTASTIC. There's one in our area at the beginning of Sept. I'm going to see if she replies to my email and see how the next few days go and bring it up again to her to see if she'll go. Maybe frame it in a way that says, I'm not too hopeful that our marriage can make it if we keep going the way we are, but why not take a chance on Retro?

I also totally agree with your take on the occasional contact with OM. Maybe after my telling her how he was lying to her back last fall about "making her happy forever" that she's truly working on complete NC now? And that's why she's not as engaging because she's dealing with that?

If she would just Freakin talk to me!

She's in a meeting for another hour or so, so I know she hasn't read the email yet. I'll let everyone know if I get a response when she gets out of the meeting.

[hopeful4her]

H4U, I just got caught up with your sitch.

Things were going so well. The Patient man was coming out on top. But life happens. So you had a big set back in your plan. I can just feel the pain in your posts. The questions.

I can't advise as you know what a mess I'm in.

Just letting you know that I know you'll do the best for you and your family.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I also now see it as her coming to grips with OM using her and she just doesn't know how to get past THAT. For her to admit to me that she F'd up and now she realizes OM was using her would be to admit that she's possibly thrown away everything we have together, FOR NOTHING. And that's got to be a hard thing to deal with.

BINGO.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

She needs to let you show her that you can, indeed, forgive her.

[Dr LOve]

H4,

I don't know what happened I was reading your post (I think) and was doing some quotes for ya and then I lost it.
So if this does not sound familiar that is why..

I hear what you're saying WDID. I just have such a hard time when she acts so indifferent about the affair, like she didn't do anything wrong and it's no big deal and won't take any responsibility for any of this. Like she's justified in what she's done.

Hope4

YES YES YES,

this is where My W was and still is a little.BUT she has seen how much it hurt me, And I think she is not proud of what she did. AS HARD AS I IS ya need to put the arrair aside for a while.

I've said this before and probably will again. I take credit for my portion of where our marriage was that let this happen.

Great, Me too BUT ya know yes your wife did have an affair and yes they say it's 50/50 Wife and OM but your wife may have been in a vulnerable state. I have heard so many stories lately that the woman felt so bad and thought so little about herself. it did not take much for some A.H guy to push the right buttons.

But I refuse to take credit for her affair. And until she can wrap her mind around that, we'll NEVER get anywhere.

Hope, You need to work on you, the "we" will happen. watching the chages in my wife have been like watching a baby chick hatch. it starts with a little crack. then slowly a small hole apears. soon more cracks but it is hard work breacking out of a shell that has been around for so long. sometimes the "chick" needs to rest.

I understand love is a decision. She doesn't. She watches crap on T.V. and reads books that all have this magical, there's one person in the world for everyone and she just thinks because OM made her squishy, then she can't possibly love me. She thinks love is either there or it's not. And how can I complete with that?

Ok Hope4, here you are talking about MY WIFE, or at least is sounded like her Luckly in a few weeks we will have a session about this discused in Retro.

I'm going to give her time. Til Oct. And yes, it would be easier to leave. But I've been at this for over a year now since I first suspected what was going on and I'm exhausted. And S16 is really having a hard time of it too, but W either doesnt' see it or refuses to see it. So how much longer can I/should I put up with it?

Hope4,
I was rehursing the "I think we should get divorced" speach. I had already checked out living arraingments and was ready to sell my / our house at a loss. I mean on the ride to Retro I was still doing this. I figured by that night it would be over. BUt I was wrong.

Don't get me wrong. We're making progress. At least I think we are. But without her doing/saying anything that gives me hope, I'm just not sure how much more I'm willing to invest in a relationship that is/has been always so one sided.

The day we went to Retro Wife and I may have said 5 words to each other. by that night we cried together. We still have issues we need to work on.
We STILL have not had sex (16 months). I was on the very edge of leaving. IF THERE IS ANY WAY...

Go to Retro. send her a link, let her check it out. COMUNNICATION is what it's about. It works if you play by the rules. that is the hard part. Ok getting your spouse there is the real hard part.
reading you post brings back memories of mine.

take care
Dr LOve

take care

[Hope4us]

She needs to let you show her that you can, indeed, forgive her.

So HOW do I get her to see that? I thought I did pretty good Monday night when I was telling her about the lies OM had told her that I knew about (so how many more are there I don't know about?). Did that sink in with her and now she's struggling with it?

Thanks H. I'm definitely going to try to get her to Retro. The last time I asked she was still pretty fresh in the fog of the affair ending (might not even have been over in her mind at that point), so I'm hopeful that she'll be more open to trying it out when I ask this time.

Thanks a lot guys. I really hope she responds to my email with at least something.....

[fightingirish]

hope,

I hope she does too. you have fb mail

[Puppy Dog Tails]

H4U,

I was just explaining the sitch; not saying you WEREN'T doing everything that can be done.

How you do it is exactly how you DID do it -- you played it perfectly, in my opinion. The ball is in her court; only SHE can decide to open up to you. Retro would really help with that, I think.

Puppy