Weeeeeellllll. I've been working things over in the I'm Separated forum, but, I think I need to move over here for a bit.
It's 0240 and I'm 99% sure my W is screwing at least one other guy if not a couple. How do I figure that? Well, reading her e-mail turned me onto the make out session with the bus driver back in June. I confronted her and thought that was behind us. She said it was a mistake.
I quit looking at her e-mail and left things to the key logger. I didn't check it for a long time. Then, she became very reluctant and touchy about my asking about her whereabouts. So, I checked and saw that she had been answering CL personals and had arranged to meet someone in person. Her google search terms a couple of weeks later were "pregnancy test" and "morning after pill" which seemed to clinch the deal that she had at least a ONS. I figured that as long as there were no little kids running around, I could forgive her an indiscretion.
I monitor the back account and the cell phone call log. Strangely, there are only 2 numbers that she calls with the cell phone. Matt C and Rick T. Her story is that Matt C is a friend that she plays tennis with and she doesn't say anything about Rick.
I could see from the bank statement that she was in the mountains 2 weekends ago and when she couldn't get in touch with the kids or with me one night, she freaked out and her fear started running away with her. I pondered why she didn't just come over and check on the kids and then realized that she must still have been in the mountains. Curious.
I haven't had access to her text messages or voice mail or her purse for a while. She is sleeping downstairs on the couch while she is between places. So, I've spent the last couple of hours gather info from her purse, cell phone and the new blackberry that I knew nothing about. It's been interesting. From the text messages, it's possible that she is having affairs with both men. There was a card for Planned Parenthood in her purse as well as a note saying $450.00 in cash or certified funds before surgery. Did she have an abortion? I don't know. She was in church last Sunday, but, who knows. When I listened to the voice mail, I heard Matt calling her honey and sweetheart and saying how much he loves her and how he needs to be with her just one more day.
The tenor of the text messages between Rick and W seems like an affair. I see that the blackberry only has contact with Rick, not Matt. Interesting.
It looks like my honey, whoops, I mean my STBX hasn't a bit of integrity in her. How else can we explain that in our last MC session she proudly proclaimed that she didn't want to date until we were divorced?
OK, enough with the snide comments.
Seriously, I know that in many respects this is all circumstantial evidence that I am of course reading in the worst possible light. I also understand that people have come back from worse to have wonderful marriages. I also understand that I have three wonderful kids that I would like to spare from the pain of a divorce.
HOWEVER, I also have to be true to myself. Now, I'm in a bit of a pickle. I gave her my word that I wouldn't get into her phone or e-mail again. I did. Perhaps my word doesn't mean much and I don't have any integrity. I don't know the answer there. I do know that my honor won't let me be unfaithful, except that I kissed a couple of girls at the bar a few weeks ago.
Perhaps my integrity is more of a fluid thing that I thought, but, I still can't have an affair. I won't let myself.
So, what do I do now? What do I do?
Do I really want to save this marriage? Truthfully, I don't know.
We have been together a long time. We have three kids together. In many ways, I love her a lot. I really don't want the kids to have to go through a divorce. I made peace with my W being the only woman that I was ever intimate with and the only woman with whom I ever had a relationship. When things are good between us like when we are out on a date following our MC, things can be very good. She is turning 41 in 12 days. I'm supposed to sign another 12 month lease for the house where the kids and I live. I can see the stress of Mom being gone on my girls and they see her fairly frequently.
I don't know if I want her any more. I do love her. I do care for her. I really would like to have a new and amazing marriage with her. I'd like to travel the world and grow old with her.
BUT, when I met her, I didn't have options. My self-image was so low that dating was inconceivable. A friend of my W drug me onto the dance floor and threw me at my W. Some how, I took things from there. I've spent the last 18 years deathly afraid of losing her because I was sure that I would die a horrible lonely death without her.
Things have changed.
In the last three, six, twelve months, I have grown up and become a man, a charismatic sex worthy man that women want to be around. I have options now. In fact every where I go, beautiful attractive young women want me to smile at them and want me to come and talk to them. It's writ large on their faces.
Two weekends back, I spent three days out in downtown with my friend from Australia. It was glorious. We had an amazing time hanging out, drinking beer, and chasing women. Because I'm married, I made sure that I didn't catch any, but, otherwise, it was game on. I have a picture from that weekend where I have my arm wrapped over the shoulder of this beautiful young woman and we both have the biggest grins on our faces because we were enjoying each other's company.
When I look at that picture, I wonder why I want to stay with someone that I can't trust and who isn't working on our M.
One last thing. Last weekend, I realized that I finally was a man. I realized that I could make the pain and the loneliness that I've been feeling go away. I need not sleep in an empty bed if I don't want to. Yet, I must carry my burden. If I ease my pain, I will precipitate the divorce that will basically transfer my pain onto my children and I would spare them my experience of being on the other side of two divorces. So, as a man, I bear this burden in the hope of a new beginning with my W.
For now, I will do nothing except to continue what I've been doing. I'm finally for the first time ever getting a life. I will continue to give her the space she is asking for. Our current separation is a mutually agreed upon time apart with me continuing to support her financially except for the gas, groceries, rent and utilities where ever she lives.
Im still standin better than I ever did looking like a true survivor feeling like a little kid Im still standin after all this time and Im picking up the pieces of my life without you on my mind..
No, we're trusting, loving, feeling individuals who put our hearts into the hands of someone we thought we knew.
Me 36 Husband 35 D5 S2 separated: 10/29/07-present Served divorce papers 1/22/09 "When the world gives out beneath your feet, it is time to learn how to fly."
No, we're trusting, loving, feeling individuals who put our hearts into the hands of someone we thought we knew.
If that makes us fools then I'm probably the line leader on this one!
Do what you have to do for you and the kids Dan. Your W is a big girl and will have to fix this herself.
M:39 H:39 K:S14;D8 T:22yr M:15yrs S:12/28/07 EA/PA 3/14/08 OW preg 11/17/08 born 12/12/08 his ~~~~~~~ Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option
(((Dan))) I cried when I read your post. (Now honestly, I cry at the drop of a hat these days.)
Keep on keeping on, Dan. You are not a fool. None of us are fools. We've had a very cruel twist of fate. The people we loved and trusted have changed in a an awful way.
DB is our only chance to change this. Lord knows I did everything else and only chased my h farther away.
Me 45, H 46, S 23, M 26, Together 30, Bomb 6-2-08, S 6-19-08; H left 12-29-08. H home 12-09, Still MLC in 2012! Me- I have my big girl panties on. Bring it.
Well folks, here's to all us foolish mortals with more hope than quit. Cheers!!
I've been bouncing back and forth between here and Separated. The short is that she says everything is easily explainable and that my snooping has killed everything. That said, the tension level was much reduced after our little blowup.
I had a friend point out something. You can't win against your partner's emotions or memories or perceptions. You can fall on your sword and agree with them completely that yes, it was all your fault and yes, they felt the way they did. Now what? They are still identifying with those things and you can't win against them.
I believe this is where we are. She doesn't trust me and I don't trust her and I feel like I'm doing battle with her memories and perceptions of all the times that I hurt her. I don't know how I can win this fight. I think I could become the perfect husband and father and it still wouldn't be enough because of the painful memories of the past.
I'm going to spend the next week until our MC pondering what things I might still need to work on and what things she needs to work on so that in my opinion we can build a new R.
My $.02. Your W is responsible for her own happiness. Not you.
If she was unhappy about something in the M, then it was her responsibility to clearly communicate that. If she didn't, then she has her own issues she needs to deal with. If she communicated clearly and you refused to listen, well, you've got some stuff to deal with.
Regardless, I agree. you can't win against her perceived memories. The best you can do is be true to yourself and examine whether the life you're leading is really what you want. If not, then pursue something different. The only fight you can win is the one for yourself. She fell in love with you once because you were probably more confident and interesting. If you are that way again, maybe she'll come back.
The question is, now that you know how she deals with problems, do you want her back? This is really hard to hear, realize, and accept, but it's the truth. If she's as willing as you are to work on things, then there is a chance. Otherwise, no. You can certainly affect that dynamic by using DB tools, but ultimately it is a question of whether she'll return to the M and address the problems or continue to run.
Consistency is the key. Consistency, patience, understanding. For yourself and for her. No matter what happens. IMO.
lodo
PS. I should mention that I steered clear of the whole A issue. If I were you I'd ask Puppy for some advice.
Thanks Lodo. Incidentally, that is an abbreviation used here for lower downtown, a great place to go bar hopping.
Oh yes, I only quit apologizing for everything about 2 weeks ago. I'm finally realizing that I'm not responsible for her mood at all.
We fell in love with each other because we were two hurting people who found in the other someone who treated us better than anyone had previously.
I'm torn about wanting to continue on with her. There are parts of her that I would do almost anything to keep and there are parts that I cannot live with. When I think on this and reflect on how she seems to be using her injuries as a shield to deflect any responsibility off of herself and how she seems to never apologize for the hurts she causes, then, I don't want her back.
I don't even know what to think about the A if there is one. Regardless of the existence of an actual affair, her behavior creates the perception that she is having an affair and that she doesn't seem to care about anyone else's opinion about her behavior is to my mind a huge problem.
Anyway, I'll keep working on GAL and see what happens.
Here's a different question for any of you reading. I was thinking that to minimize the disruption for the kids that a nice way to manage joint custody would be for the two of us to rent a house where the kids and one parent at a time would live and then each parent also rented a small apartment and custody was for a week at a time, swapping parents out in the main house instead of swapping kids back and forth.
So I guess you're in Denver? My W has family in Boulder and I used to live in Durango. But lodo comes from somewhere else.
There's a book that I've thought about a lot - "Too good to leave, to bad to stay". Sounds like your sitch. It all comes down to what we're willing to accept and forgive.
I think it's common for the WAS to concentrate on themselves and come across as selfish. They felt the buildup of bad emotions far before we ever realized it. But that is no excuse for an A, EA or PA.
Your description of the thing with the kids is similar to a new approach, but it's more complicated in your description. What I've read is that the kids stay in the family home and an additional apartment is rented in which the parents trade off living in. So you only end up paying for 2 places. Your solution is for 3 places. I think that might be more stable for the kids, but my impression is that it'd be awful for the parents, who have less resilient social lives. IMO. I don't have kids so I don't really know.
Hey lodo, I'm 10 miles East of Boulder. That book title sounds like it hit the nail on the head. I can accept and forgive a lot. What I can't do is ever change enough to change the past and as long as she is stuck there this R can't move forward. Don't misunderstand, I still have work to do on me. However, when in my estimation, our R is no different today than it was a year ago and I've changed so much that in some ways I'm unrecognizable, I'm forced into a conclusion that at this point, the bottle neck to progress is not me. I'm not going to stop DB and I'm not going to try and rush things toward D. One area of concern for W is my relationship with and to the kids with her feeling that I'm very self focused and not much interested in them. That is an area that still needs work. So, perhaps some similarly large changes in that dynamic will shake things loose for her and if it doesn't, it still is something that I need to do.
As far as the living arrangements for sharing custody. We are both agreed that we want to try and minimize the disruption to the kids. Then, as far as the parent's social life, right now she has a place of her own and I'm primary with the kids. If she wants to, she can have the social life of a single person subject to the availability of funds to support it. I've been out 5 times in the last 3 months and paying for someone to watch the kids was easily double what I spent going out. What I'm saying is that my social life would improve by several orders of magnitude if I didn't have the kids every other week.
Damn, thinking about this, I find myself swinging from one extreme to the other. When I saw W this morning, I just wanted to pull her in tight and kiss her and work extra hard on this R. Then, as I was driving to work and thinking over all the other crap, I want to move on and not spend any more energy on this M. We've got our MC in 2 weeks. I'm going to take that time and revel in the chaos in my mind and try and experience every emotion and every thought fully and try to synthesize some overarching thoughts about who we are where we are at and what things seem plastic enough to change and which things seem unlikely to change and then have a discussion with W and C as to the best path forward.
