I'll get you a full answer to your question later.
The intital, basic, answer is, if someone divorces their spouse and marries someone else that new "marriage" is considered a state of adultery. Jesus views the marriage bond as sacred. Mark 10:2-12
Sure, having an affair is adultery. But according to Jesus leaving your wife and marrying your affair partner does not undo the adultery. It's a perpetual state of adultery. No minister worth his salt would marry a couple under such conditions. But from what I gather, the elders in your husbands church seem to be missing their b@lls and would probably marry them.
Does God bless the mess started in sin? Generally not. Certainly not if your husband doesn't repent.
There might be a few exceptions. They have to do with your husband realizing his error and genuinely repenting from the heart, but reconciliation with you, would, at that time, be impossible (either you are remarried or simply refuse to reconcile). This is where it gets murky. God is always willing to forgive and heal. But, if reconcilitaiton is logistically impossible, and your husband is truly sorry, God can work to make beauty out of ashes.
The Protestant church teaches that the only legitmate grounds for divorce where you are free to re-marry are: 1. Adultery, 2. The abandonment of the unbelieving spouse. These are based on the exception clauses given by Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew and Paul's teaching in Corinthians.
The Catholics hold that marriage is for life and there is no divorce under any circumstances. They sneak it in, however, through annulment, claiming the marriage was invalid.
Do you know the old clause, when the minister says "If anyone has any reason to give why this couple cannot be lawfully wed, speak now or forever hold his peace."? That was to give people the public opportunity to say, "Excuse me, but this person had an affair and left his wife. There are no biblical grounds for him divorcing his wife, therefore as a minister of the Gospel, you shouldn't be marrying these people."
Hey...fly me in to step into their wedding ceremony. I'd love to say that. Hehehehehe.
One interesting thing that happened with my own parents. And this could possibly happen....
My mother wanted a divorce from my father (he was an abusive alcoholic so this was a very necessary divorce), and when they were separated he met his current wife.
Interestingly a few years ago she expressed extreme guilt over this. She thought maybe I didn't like her because I saw her as "breaking up" the family. Apparently she had always felt a little responsible for this.... even though I had never expressed feelings or actions to indicate I thought this (believe me, it was a relief not to live with an abusive alcoholic!!!). But it's kind of funny how she had been plagued with this guilt for years... even though I didn't have those feelings.
I doubt your OW has these feelings currently, but time can change these things. Once she "wins" there's a chance she may encounter some uncomfortable feelings. Logic should indicate it's not the best way to start a relationship....
As far as that sleazy relative that called, you should have had some fun with that one!!! I would have said something, "Oh that's okay you can always talk to me. We share him!!!!"
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
This is what he is counting on.. that God will forgive him because he has repented by d'ing me and is, therefore, no longer sinning.
But, what you are saying is that the only way to repent is to completely end this R (even after the d is final); and then, only if I say no to reconciliation is he off the hook for the d. Am I interpreting this correctly?
Originally Posted By: theoden
"If anyone has any reason to give why this couple cannot be lawfully wed, speak now or forever hold his peace."? That was to give people the public opportunity to say, "Excuse me, but this person had an affair and left his wife. There are no biblical grounds for him divorcing his wife, therefore as a minister of the Gospel, you shouldn't be marrying these people."
Hey...fly me in to step into their wedding ceremony. I'd love to say that. Hehehehehe.
Oh.. THAT would be funny!!! I might just take you up on the offer some day
I doubt your OW has these feelings currently, but time can change these things. Once she "wins" there's a chance she may encounter some uncomfortable feelings. Logic should indicate it's not the best way to start a relationship....
Frankly I don't think this ow even has a conscience!! Once she wins she might have another A but I don't she would feel uncomfortable.
Yes.. I am angry as heck all of a sudden. I know that no matter what I say or do, good or bad, it's not going to change my situation. Soooo... the anger is kind of spewing out.. Oh well.. 'bout time he hears some of it.
Here's a question for any Christian out there who cares to answer.. Is the R with the OP ever not a sin? When you are D'd from your spouse and he/she continues the R with the OP, is it then ok in God's eyes? Will he then bless that R even though it started in sin?
I think I'll have a go at it, as someone working in ministry in the Catholic church, which includes getting folks started into the annulment process.
I don't mean to contradict Theo, just giving my perspective as someone dealing with this "professionally."
There are a lot of gray areas in this annulment thing. Basically a marriage case tries to prove that there were factors which prevented one or both parties from making a sacramental commitment to marriage, at the time of the marriage (i.e. a 25-year marriage with an isolated A at 25 years isn't in that category, for the most part). Usually that ends up being some sort of a psychological reason--an adult child of alcoholics, drug or alcohol use throughout courtship and marriage, a history of infidelity during courtship or in early days of marriage. Doesn't mean the persons involved are "defective," only that they lacked the discretion or judgement that might have told them they were walking into a catastrophe. I have some negative feelings about the process, but they're based on personal experience; it does seem to allow people to have some healing and move on with their lives.
In a situation in which someone had an affair which ended the marriage, that person might indeed receive an annulment depending upon factors present at the time of marriage. However, there would be conditions placed upon that person's future marrying in the Church, generally including some therapy. Especially if that person was marrying the OW, it would be very unlikely that marriage would be blessed by the Church; perhaps with some major secrecy or moving away to do so, but the annulment decision would have mentioned that possibility as an impediment. Again, I'm making it pretty black-and-white, but I have a few years of experience at this.
Those are the "legalities." I try hard not to label something that another person is doing as a sin, because there are factors I wouldn't know and my opinion on that really doesn't matter. Having said that, however, and being in the middle of such a mess myself, I would have to agree that God would be unlikely to bless a R that began in sin and--as such--caused a lot of pain to innocent parties.
Just as an ironic aside, here's my sitch: H is a hospital chaplain and teacher of chaplains, in the introductory stages of pursuing Episcopal priesthood. However, 2 months ago he left me and D12 to pursue a R with a girlfriend from 22 years earlier. He sees nothing inconsistent in all of that. I gotta believe, however, that God probably does.
M60 H52 D20 M14 yrs OW-old gf from 1986 bomb-5/18/08 H filed for D-9/10/08 D final 4/24/09 xH remarried (not OW) 2012
If I'm guessing, the chaplain position is an in-house staff position. Is he ordained though another group?
I would imagine that during the ordination process, the Bishop would inquire about his marital status. The Episcopal Church is not known for it's sound biblical theology, but I imagine they would prevent him from being ordained if they knew he was having an affair.
I was once on the track to ordination and I stopped the process because of my wife's affair. The people in charge felt that though I was not "at fault", it was not wise for me to pursue the ministry with a marriage in crisis. They were right.
I would pay good money just to sit your husband down right now and have a long conversation with him.
This is what he is counting on.. that God will forgive him because he has repented by d'ing me and is, therefore, no longer sinning.
Uhhh....divorcing you wife while you are having an affair is NOT repentance. Not in God's eyes.
Quote:
But, what you are saying is that the only way to repent is to completely end this R (even after the d is final); and then, only if I say no to reconciliation is he off the hook for the d. Am I interpreting this correctly?
Let me tell you what I do know, and then I'll do some research and get some wise counsel on it.
1. Right now the only way for your husband to repent is to end his relationship with OW and seek to reconcile with you. It's up to you reconcile or not. You have the right (according to the Protestant tradition) to file for divorce on the grounds of adultery.
2. According to Jesus's words if your husband marries the OW he would be commiting adultery. The *state* of his marriage is adultery, since he is really married to you. His marriage to her is a non-marriage -- it's adultery in God's eyes.
3. The question is, "Can he undo the state of his adulterous affair/marriage?" Or can he legitimize his "marriage" to OW in God's eyes?
4. I was guessing before. I'll try to answer question #3 more accurately.
4a. Some would say the only way for your H to be right with God is to end his relationship with OW, no matter what your willingness/unwillingness/availability is. Since you didn't break your marriage covenant he's bound to it for life. (The only way to biblically break the marriage covenant and be free to marry another with proper grounds is in the following three cases: adultery, death, or a non-Christian spouse leaving the marriage). I lean towards this understaning myself.
4b. There's the other issue of the OW being divorced. Jesus says you shouldn't marry an unbiblically divorced person. From what you tell me, she divorced her husband without grounds. She's still bound to her ex-husband in God's eyes. So their relationship is a double-whammy.
4c. If there is any possibility of legitimizing that relationship, it would probably take *both* parties repenting but being unable to return to their former spouses because their former spouses are unwilling to reconcile or have gotten re-married. Of course, wouldn't it be very convenient to have a "change of heart" and repent after your former spouse is re-married in order to legitimize your adulterous affair and call it a marriage.
I'm not 100% sure -- and I'll get you more information.
In general, I don't think scenario 4c is likely to happen. If your husband was concerned about being right with God, he wouldn't be doing this.
And...why do you care? It's God's business if he's off the hook or not. In general, I think your husband and his concubine will choose a church where affairs, divorce and re-marriage are really non-issues. There are plenty of churches that masquerade their moral bankuptcy under the terms "grace", "tolerance" and "open-mindedness".
Oh -- I'll fly to their freakin' "wedding" and I'll register my protest. Dare me to. Go ahead.
