Confused and Bewildered

[pisces9]

wow- that is great news about your T! one who agrees with DB is perfect- and im happy you l;eft feeling hopeful.

are you going to go downstairs and say HI! to your h?

[iamlost]

Hi 7,

I just got all caught up on your sitch, and saw a lot of similarities in our situations, yours and mine. Esp. that you and I are both VERY emotional people, that we both, unfortunately, put our husbands through the ringer over the past year or so, and can understand "why" they would have fallen out of love with us. I, too, am hurt that my H isn't willing to work on the M anyway. For better or worse, right? And both of our H's seem angry, withdrawn and cold, and "done".

Like you, I "flood" with emotion, and can cry at the drop of a hat. I've had to practically do flips to detach myself and NOT cry around my H, with only very recent success (after months of trying and then backsliding). Reading your sitch, I can see maybe why your H seems withdrawn and barreling towards D, it's partially why mine is as well:

I think he may be worried and scared of how upset this is making you. I think he may be rushing to D partially FOR YOUR SAKE. Maybe he feels like if he can end it quickly, it will be like pulling a band-aid quickly and then you'll be alright, and so will he. He told you something similar to that a few posts back. I think he may be trying to save you, as well as himself, from further pain (in the wrong way, but the feeling is genuine, I think).

I really think that as hard as it is, you have to back WAY, way off and have a PMA around him, and be consistent at it. Believe me, I know how hard that is. But one way to do it is try to accept the worst--that he may serve you with divorce papers. OK. So what if he does? As someone else said on here, it's just so much paper. It's not your relationship with your H. Your relationship began before you had that marriage license, right? It can also continue even if there are divorce papers dissolving that marriage.

Something clicked in my head when I accepted that my H and I were going to move towards a legal S (or even D). I stopped being so afraid, and I was FINALLY able to detach enough that I am not anxious or crying and reacting to everything H throws at me, and can actually DB, which in turn makes me feel better about myself.

If you can get to a place where you know that no matter what you will be OK--and you WILL be OK--then I know you can calm down and be a Rockstar DBer. You and your H have a really good chance of making it from what I've read, your problems are fixable, and there is real love there on both sides.

Do what you can to show your H consistently that you are OK, and detach, and I'm willing to bet cold hard cash that he will start moving in your direction instead of away.

[7 Year Itch]

Gosh Iamlost, I sure hope you are right. I think you hit alot of things on the head. I think he KNOWS how hurt I am, how much I love him, how much I'm trying and I can see him running to get it done to try to "save" me, rather than lead me on. I think too if I show more confidence, and PMA and GAL my butt off it will help. The times I've done well with it it has.

So yesterday after I posted before, H comes upstairs and lays on the bed while I was up here on the computer.

He asked how my session was and how I liked the guy. I probably told him WAY too much. I'm way too honest. Told him I wished we had gone to this guy first, that it really felt like a great fit etc. Anyway, I could tell he withdrew a bit when I mentioned the guy said our sitch was quite normal....... anyway, so he looked at me and said... "I am going to file still Chris". To which I said.....(and calmly too)....."well, if you really feel that THAT is the only solution you see, then you will need to do what you feel. I cannot control your actions. You know where I stand". I then said... "I do want to say one thing though. IF there is even a 1% chance that you question something with your decision, I feel like it would make sense to error on the side of caution with any moves you might make". To which he said.. "I agree with that". And I may be wrong, but I do think there is at least a tiny bit of him wondering ,so I'm praying the filing doesn't come, but trying to get in the mindset that if it does, I need to stay my course.

Then of all things, we end up getting into a wrestling match on the bed. Seriously. Like hysterical crud we used to do when we were first dating. I'm not even sure I remember how it started. But I kept going for his ticklish spot, and he did with me too. It carried on for probably 15 minutes until I said "uncle" because i had to wake up d2 from her nap to get the girls to VBS.

Crazy.

I mean, one minute it's D talk, then we are laughing and playing together??? I really don't get it. But all I know is the day ended well, and I"m going with it.

I won't see him today or tomorrow because of VBS, but will probably see him Thursday and Friday. Then I'm keeping the girls Sat., and he agreed to it with no issue because my D6 LOVES Cheetahs and a local museum is having a live cheetah demo thing on Sat., then we have an annual BBQ at a friends house that night. I asked if he minded only having the girls stay over Sunday night and he didn't even flinch which was nice. Especially since he didn't get overnights this past weekend due to his work schedule.

So.... onward, I'm trying.

I did put the invite out there to go our August 1st. It's our 12 year dating anniversary. WE always celebrated that one along with our actual wedding anniversary. I made it all casual. Told him nothing big, just go out to dinner or something. I have a wedding to go to the next day, so I don't want to be out late etc. He said he'd think about it, so we'll see.

Chris

[pisces9]

Chris! you handled that so well- he said he is still filing probably bc you saw he withdrew a bit after the C comments and then you didnt even react ! you said it like a champ- that if he needs to ,etc...~!
then you wrestled! that is the actions you believe! remember the believe nothing they say and 50% of what they do- well i would believe the wrestling as a way that he showing you he is still curious...if you keep up your DB'ing you will see more of it...

i know how scary it is to hear those words- but the are just words...and you handles it like he said he wanted to buy new socks perfect!

you sound like you have a lot of plans (cheetahs- so cute!)...so thats good and i think the invite is good- but dont push it or ask again...you know the drill!

you rock! you are not just trying you are DOING! yay for you

[maninmotion]

Hi Chris First time reading your thread. From a comment you made, I think we live in the same metro area. A couple of thoughts. It's really nice to work with a C that understands DB. So, when I told our C that I was going dark/lrt, she understood what I was talking about and my explanation of why was a lot shorter.

I had a thought about your H and your sitch. This is a bit long, but, I hope it helps.

I'm going to use a violent encounter as a metaphor. Violence doesn't just happen. There is an escalation phase. In order to defuse a violent encounter, the energy and emotion that were part of the escalation have to be bled away slowly. Thus, there is a de-escalation phase. Your H didn't just wake up one morning feeling like the only thing that he could do was get a D. There was an escalation phase. But, here is the important part. He didn't file for D. This is like the two drunks in the bar who decide not to swing on each other. Now comes the de-escalation phase. You and your H are in the de-escalation phase. The rules in interpersonal violent encounters are that you need to give the other person a face-saving exit and you cannot pressure them to back down. It's the same with DB/DR. We don't push for them to admit that they were wrong and we let things de-escalate at their own pace.

As I was reading your thread, I wanted to stand up and cheer as it seems that things are really going well.

As for his not feeling anything, is it possible that this is also hindered by his profession? Doesn't it seem likely that to survive the horrors of his work, that at some level he must dampen and suppress his emotions?


These are just some thoughts that I had. In either case, I'm excited for you and hopeful for you. It really does seem that good things are possible and with a little patience and a lot of prayer, you will have to move forums.

Dan

[7 Year Itch]

Hi Pisces and Dan,

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm really trying to hold on to those moments of action rather than his words. It's just so hard. It's like a knife everytime he says it.

Dan, I do think his job has affected him, althought he doesn't think so. I've mentioned it a few times, but I think he thinks I'm just looking for excuses. I even told him, it didn't invalidate his feelings of how I treated him over the last couple of years, but that I do see a change in him as well. He's just not open to hearing anything right now, so I've dropped that quite awhile ago. I figure if we do reconcile, then somewhere down the road after we are quite stable, I will suggest he explore that more. I do worry about him. He's always been an incredible optimist, always seen the best in people, always been so easy going. He's still a GREAT GREAT person, and hasn't been jaded near as much as others in his professionn ,but there has definitely been a switch.

Well, I'm having an off morning ,and I'm not sure why. But for whatever reason, I'm feeling angry today. I think my jobhunt that isn't resulting in ANYTHING and feeling that pressure isn't helping. Figured I better come here to vent over doing something stupid like sending an email or something.

I'm just so mad that he decides this ,and who is the one sitting here jumping through hoops. Me. I have to go and get a full time job after us agreeing for me to be a SAHM. I was going to go back to school when our youngest was in school all day. Well, that's blown now. So trying to find a job to pay enough to stay in our current house is looking like mission impossible and I'm MAD about it. I'm mad my girls will not only have to suffer a divorce, but loss of friends, coaches, teachers, D6's Brownie troop, and their home through everything as well. It's becoming clear that I'm probably goinng to have to move into another city and condo and leave our country home on 4 acres. Talk about a huge life change for them. They have so much freedom here. It's so safe, and secluded, room to roam. And we are probably going to end up having to move to a place without a yard back in the suburbs.

I'm mad. I'm very mad about this all. And is HE looking for daycares and helping with that? Nope. I get to look for the job, figure out the daycare, I'll be the one dealing with the intense early mornings and late nights picking up and dropping off with daycare.

What changes for him? He moves out to a bachelor pad, and doesn't see his girls as much. Now granted, I know that hurts him, but it's HIS choice to do that.

I really don't want to hold on to this anger, because I don't want it to be counterproductive to the DBing, but i just needed to get it out.

I haven't talked to his parents in about a month or so, and I was thinking of talking to them again ,but I don't know. I know they are upset about everything, but ultimately they'll support H of course. Don't even know what I would say. Just miss everyone. They got us a webcam to stay in touch with the girls over the computer easier, and we used to do weekly phone calls. Well, I haven't been doing them. H does them with the girls sometimes when he is over visiting, but I haven't. It's akward. So I don't see or talk to them at all.

UGH. I just hate this. I want it all to end. I just don't think I'm the type that can go on with this for 3, 4, 5 more months.

Chris

[iamlost]

Figured I better come here to vent over doing something stupid like sending an email or something...I really don't want to hold on to this anger, because I don't want it to be counterproductive to the DBing, but i just needed to get it out.

That's great: come here to vent, don't express that anger to him.

And something that might help with that anger, too, is empathizing with your H. I know that's hard to do, but what he's doing is very difficult, too. I wrote this in another thread awhile back:

Think of how much pain your S is going through, and try to feel empathy. Think about what it would be like to try to walk away from your life, how hard that would be to have friends, family, spouse, all upset, confused, thinking you're crazy. Think how much you would need to justify your actions to be able to think of yourself as a good person, how little you could afford to let yourself miss the life, the people you are leaving behind, and how much you would cast around in desperation trying to find new connections and an escape from lonliness.

I'm not defending him, but he IS trying to do what he thinks is the best thing, for himself, but also for you and your kids. Granted, he's mistaken, but if you want to save your M, it's your job to show him a path with YOU that leads to greater happiness for all of you. Right now, he doesn't see that path.

[7 Year Itch]

Yep, I totally see what you are saying, and I think that is why I'm able to hold my tongue. I am trying very hard to empathize with him. Just wish he could empathize with me sometimes, ya know!

Well, just got off the phone with him. I had emailed him to ask if he planned to see the girls on friday night. He normally doesn't but hasn't seen them much this last week due to his work schedule and then them having VBS this week. I have a dinner invite for Friday night (with a girlfriend ,but of cousre I didn't tell him that) and wasn't sure if I could accept or not.

Well, he called me to talk about it. He said, sure that sounded great. Then told me that on Sat. he is playing in the fire/police games and that if the girls wanted to come watch them play on Sat. the games are in a city close to us. So I said... "you do realize I'd have to be there sitting with them right?" to which he said. "yeah", and I said.."would there be any reason for me to feel uncomfortable while being there?" to which he said."I don't think so".

So I told him to let me know when he finds out his schedule and maybe we'd "pop by". I"m taking the girls to that Cheetah thing on Sat., and then we have a BBQ that night. So I made it sound like "if we could fit it in" we'd try.

Then when we were talking he realized he was supposed to have a practice for the games Friday night. But he REALLY wants to see the girls. So now he's thinking about not doing the games at all because he hasn't made a practice yet and feels like he's letting his team down.

I was real non chalant and said....... "well, you don't have to see the girls on Friday, I just know you guys didn't get to see each other alot this week so I was offering". To which he said. "Yeah, I know. Ireally want to see them".

I told him to just let me know as soon as he could, and I wouldn't mention it right now to the girls. Told him I'd see him tomorrow night (he'll be out for dinner and to visit the girls).

So I KNOW the invite is just coming for our D6 to see him in the games, but I still take it as semi positive. I mean, if he hated me, he wouldn't want me there with all his coworkers and their wives right?

Hmmm......... thinking too much again.

Chris

[ms ladybug]

You should be proud of the way you handled yourself after his comment about still filing. You didn't fall apart like I'm certain he expected! You're getting it!

Being invited to the games is a BIG DEAL! He doesn't mind his coworkers seeing you there. That's huge!
About a month ago, h invited me to the police assoc picnic. I thought that was big. One thing that was slightly unconf. was talking to wives that I hadn't seen in a long time and having them ask me what was going on with h and I. Probably looking for some desperate housewife gossip, and I shrugged it off saying "I don't know. We're trying to work on things." Then, I quickly changed the subject.
So, be prepared for some questions if you see couples you used to know.

Oh, and look CUTE at the games. Seriously, have some clothes that show off your good features, and add some new sunglasses, cute shoes, etc... It's awesome when his co-workers comment to him about what a hot wife he has...

Keep the course, you're doing well.

[pisces9]

Chris- you nailed it- reading too much into it.
he defintely has positive feelings about seeing you by inviting you to the games...! that is a HUGE step...

dont plant the seed of doubt - this is one baby step in the walk of thousands...i am very happy how you are interacting...it is a slow dance...very slow...

no more doubtful comments to him...let him tell you if he has doubt..dont plant the seed..only plant the seed of happiness to him...

im sure you'll look hot- and another thing- if he is seeing the girls and you tomorrow night and wants to see you guys saturday thats a really good sign...just play it cool!

(((Chris)))