Really upside down #2

[upside_downer]

Hi. I was in newcomers, now here because I am an LBS. Here is my previous thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1517899

I left feeling a little bitter because I was talking and talking and venting and had no response from anyone. Unfortunately for me, this is something I do in life. I am, when interested in something, exhausting at best. I can talk forever when interested. I can keep playing games forever when I'm interested. The bad thing is, my actions like this exhaust people when they've had enough of me and the way I am.

My W's cousin ended up getting so sick of hearing me complain about how "bad" he was treating me that he told me off and is currently pissed at me and has refused to talk to me for months.

My W has told me flat out that consistency is a major issue she has with me. In her words exatly:

"One day you are Mr. Cool, then next you are accusing me of an affair on the phone."

Well, I did see her ex BF write to her "Someone said to me do you realize that (W's name) is the love of your life? You do know that, right?" THAT was why I called her upset. I couldn't tell her how I found out about that, so I had to beat around the bush, but she denies that anything would ever happen with this guy cuz they are "just not meant to be together." Funny, she had said to him "I didn't realize how much I missed you" My W is so confusing. I know she doesn't realize that saying things like that sounds and looks bad. HOW COULD SHE NOT SEE THAT? I tell myself she is too naive, but I also tell myself that is who she is and I need to accept that of her.

Accepting was a big problem for my W. She felt I never accepted her. I did, but I didn't show her in a way that she recognized it as accepting, so I might as well have not accepted her cuz she never felt it.

Those are things I need to work on.

I went back and forth for a long time trying to figure out if going dark was best, and it seems at this point that I need some contact. I am terrible, though, because I go between not wanting to answer the phone/email at all when she tries to contact me, to initiating the contact myself. Again, no consistent message.

We had a breakthrough last week when I called her upset that she was seeing someone else and we finally talked for a long time on the phone. W conceeded that we hadn't talked like that in a long time and it felt good. W also went right back to responding to things via email with one word answers like "yep" as if she is too busy. However, she has time to write paragraphs to her cousin. She tries to tell me she is too busy, but I'm not stupid. She just doesn't make the time because she doesn't want to.

I've been looking at a few other's threads and need some good people to help me out here. I've seen great posts from:

Smartcookie, Forrest, Twindad, Bworl, Neilh23, pisces.

I invite anyone to help me out....but will forewarn, I'm difficult because I forget things easily.

Thanks for the help

[upside_downer]

Bouncing for those of you who were looking for me

[smartcookie]

Hi U, You have a lot of posts for me to skim over, & offer any type of advice. I see that Phoenixdeaux & Bworl were replying, so that's good. I found that the more I posted on other peoples threads, the more that made them want to come over to my thread.

Have you read my early posts ? That will help you know where your wife may be at.

Read DR, focus on making you better in every way. Be nice when W interacts with you, & don't chase her. How's that in a nutshell ?

take care

I'll be back, I'm just going to be really busy for the next week with my family, but I'll try to check on you. Meanwhile, read as much as you can written by any waw here & try to find one that is similar to your sitch.

[upside_downer]

Thanks, cookie. I appreciate it, I need some steady people to watch my posts and help out. I've been posting quite a bit on others threads, so hopefully more people are going to pop in on mine.

A little update for today: My W left behind quite a bit of boxes and things in the basement because her apartment is so small that she couldn't fit it all. Now that she cleaned up, she is coming to try to get the rest. I'm a little sad because, even though they are just "things," they held a significance that she was still here and there was still hope. I know it doesn't mean anything, but it's hard not to think that way.

Funny thing to me: I got a little upset about her getting her things, but I played it cool. It wasn't until we were talking last week and she was giving me a very cold shoulder that I made a comment of "well, if that's the case (getting your stuff and it not meaning anything), then why don't we just make this S complete and you give me the garage opener and any keys you have"

Wasn't the best thing to say, but she reacted like she was insulted. I think I should take the insult as an indication, though, because if she really didn't care, she wouldn't have been insulted or acted that way.

Today is going to be hard. I've snooped a little and know her ex bf is inviting her out and she is probably going. Honestly, I'm scared he is an OM and she is beginning an EA with him.

[Bworl]

UD,

You've been around enough now to know that the ex-BF is an issue that you have no control over.

She's told you her position on this guy. Her actions will now show her to be an honest person or dishonest person. But nothing you say or do will affect whether she decides to pursue him.

In fact, your accusations and insecurity would probably only cause her to move in his direction.

The same things that have been shared with you before are the things you should be working on.

UD needs to fill his life with things he CAN control. Things that both occupy his time and give him fulfillment. You need to work on things like patience and showing unconditional love for your wife when you have opportunity.

You cannot measure your responses to her based on her actions.

If she crosses a line that serves as a deal breaker for you, then let it be so. Otherwise you're doing what you can to show her that YOU are the more attractive choice. That is not done by treating the ex-BF like he is a threat.

Go read Sleepers thread in MLC and see how he is handling the OM in his wife's life. And they are already divorced! He serves as a good role model for you in that regard.

Your wife doesn't know what she wants. She's told you as much to your face.

And that my friend, means you have opportunity.

Don't waste that opportunity by focusing on the negatives. Instead focus on being the positive thing in her life.

And yes, I know that she doesn't give you as many opportunities as you would like. That's pretty typical. That just means you have to be SURE that you maximize every opportunity by NOT giving in to your fear and insecurity.

You need to LIVE as though you are the better man. As though you are the ONLY man who could truly make her happy.


Blessings,

bill

[upside_downer]

I'm "in the field" right now. Had to take a break cuz she told me she went out to this bar "with her cousin and a couple other people."

I'm a little drunk (from playing golf) so I'm not in the mood for BS.

She just won't tell me he was there. She's hiding it, so that's all I need to know.

Oh well...looks like it's silent Sean for the night. ooops.....my name. Oh well.

[upside_downer]

Well Bill, you are right. The ex BF has to be something I need to get over. How to do it will be challenging, because due to my snooping, I know he is active in certain things. I poked around asking questions about what she did last night, etc. She said she went to a bar to see a person play guitar with her cousin and a couple people. I asked who else went she said "no one you would know." No mention of the ex BF.

That was disappointing. I even went so far as to ask if she's seen him lately (among a couple of other people just so it wouldn't sound like I was asking only about him) and she said "I see him every once in a while cuz he hangs out with his kid."

I need to get over this but it's so hard because she is lying to me. She even said at dinner that she still has a hard time telling me things.

That is why I need to make this one of my goals: Get the W to open up to me and admit when she is hanging with certain people. Get W to open up- period.

Dinner was good. I'm still failing though because I get drawn into the R talk. We talked about the house she asked if I liked coming home to an empty house. I said I don't spend a lot of time there. She said she was surprised because she would spend time alone, and does, at her apt. I told her it was different because she has an apt. with no attachments and all new stuff. I said "I'm living in a house with ghosts"

That probably wasn't the best way to put it.

We had a long dinner and laughed about some things, but I still feel total awkwardness on her part. I know I'm mostly the reason because I am having such a hard time being upbeat. I'm acting happy when I speak and such, but I can't help but be quiet and have no expression on my face sometimes.

I tortured myself a little, too. She said "what do you want to do now?" when we got home, so we sat in the dark at the kitchen table (W likes very low light, brightness bothers her eyes). I offered a backrub and she said she couldn't refuse a backrub from anyone. I gave her a long one and it was so nice to feel her skin. I wanted to melt into it.

I admitted too many things, too. Like I miss her and miss her sleeping in the bed.

I'm so sloppy....I need to fall in line here.

[upside_downer]

Couple more things I found interesting:

1. W came to get boxes, dressed in "crappy" clothes and wanted to go to a nice place for dinner. She dolled up in the bathroom she used to get ready in. Later, she made the comment that while she was getting ready, she felt weird because she went to look for something that used to always be there, and it wasn't cuz she has moved out.

2. We were hanging out after dinner and she was quiet, so I was following suit. I asked her what she was thinking and she said she was thinking about the house. Cleaning, getting groceries, putting them away, the smell of the house is different now(?), and looks different.

3. She seems to ask me frequently when we get on this kind of talk about how I am doing. In other words, if I like being by myself, if I'm happy, etc. I always ask her as well and when I ask if she is happy she says "sometimes, it's up and down. Sometimes I'm really busy and things are ok, and other times I'm kind of numb"

Dangerous? I've been thinking more and more lately that if I were to "strike" with a "I don't think this is working, we should go our separate ways" or perhaps dating or something like that will make her nervous? Hell, look at what it's doing to me, and I'm not even sure she is. A little reverse psychology?

[Bworl]

If you start dating, then it's ok to tell her you're dating.

If you decide that the marriage is over, it's ok to tell her you've decided you're done.

Until then, you are lying to her.

The same thing you accuse her of.

And as for the old BF, unless you are absolutely sure she has directly lied to you about her involvement with him, you had best keep your mouth shut about it. With the WAS, there is little that is more unforgivable than an unjustified accusation.

Talk about setting things back a few notches...

The thing is, if she's contemplating a relationship with this guy, then that's where she is and what she's doing. I can agree with you completely that it sucks, it's wrong, etc, but there's nothing either of us can do about it.

If you have conclusive evidence, and she is lying repeatedly about it, I think you are justified to make it a topic of conversation. Only because at that point, she has compromised her integrity and is treating you as a fool. But even then, it's not an accusation and condemnation. It's a simple matter of putting the truth on the table and insisting that the both of you at least be honest with each other.

As for you, you are still too attached to her and what she does. Detachment is a process and takes time, but you also have to focus your efforts on it. You cannot continue to allow her actions to be the basis for your emotional state.

Less on her. More on you.


Blessings,

Bill

[upside_downer]

Thanks Bill. You're right about me lying, too. I didn't think of it that way, but it certainly puts me in my place.

I am having such a difficult time detaching. We went through a 2 week period where we were talking more regularly and it felt good to me, but I still have expectations. I get a glimpse of something and I want to rush the end.

I feel so....stuck. Stuck in my house that I don't think I can sell, stuck doing all the improvements to get it ready if I do try to sell.

I need some help to figure out how to detach. Are there steps, or something like that I can take to further that process?

One important question I keep forgetting to ask: Would it be bad to say something like "I'm making efforts to change what got us here so we can have what we need going forward. This includes doing things that are hard because I can get hurt. I don't feel you are meeting me halfway, though, because you still can't tell me things." This is based on the fact that W tells me she still can't tell me things. It drives me up a wall that I have made all the effort and she is just doing whatever she wants and I have to live with it.