So last night, I messed up, but I think I saved it. I got busy working on the house (and the internet, honestly) and didn't go to bed. Later, my wife came down to use the bathroom and walked by in her little blue robe with a little red teddy underneath. That's always been her main way of signaling that it's OK to make love--she goes to bed wearing something sexy. The problem with that method is that if I'm not in the room, I can't actually tell what she's wearing. Anyway, I hopped into the shower and went upstairs to find her asleep. I snuggled up and went to sleep, and when she woke up later on, we made love--and it was great. I wanted to ask her a million questions afterward, but I didn't. We snuggled in and cuddled until we fell asleep.
I'm still dominating everything in bed, and she still seems to love it. The one thing I still wondered about was fellatio. I've gotten more oral sex, more enthusiastically, in the last three weeks than I'd gotten in five years previously. I had decided, back then, that it was just something she didn't enjoy doing and wasn't willing to do for me. (Because she didn't love me enough, or wasn't attracted enough, or whatever self-pitying reason I had that day.)
When I made the choice to take the lead and be in charge, I decided to bring the topic up again. It just about killed me to do it, but I didn't ask--I told her to do it, and it was clear it wasn't a request. It was an order. She responded, and it was better than I'd dared hope. She was enthusiastic, she really seemed to be enjoying herself, and she drove me wild. Since then we've done it twice more, more or less the same way--I tell her to do it, she does it with alarming alacrity, and a good time is had by all.
Only this morning I asked her whether she was starting to enjoy fellatio. I honestly thought she had discovered that when she was pushed, she enjoyed the act that had been no fun when I was asking (or just hoping, as I often have in our marriage) "nicely." Nope.
She told me she really doesn't enjoy it, and she's not sure why. She said she likes the fact that I enjoy it and it makes me happy. Now, the question, I admit, could be seen as manipulative--there was clearly an answer I was hoping to get. I hoped she would say "Yeah, I do kinda like it now."
But I really felt good about her honesty. She told me the truth. She didn't act like she was afraid of me or I was some beast she had to lie to and placate. And from reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy," I realize I have a real problem accepting a gift from anyone. I don't always feel like I deserve a gift. There was some talk about this--lovers giving each other gifts by doing things one enjoys more than the other--but I wasn't really in a position to understand what she was really talking about. It's not the giving of gifts that's hard for me, it's accepting a gift graciously.
So I thanked her for telling me the truth, and I thanked her for making me so happy. We cuddled for awhile longer, and it was really, really good.
Now I've got to go get some work done before I laze the day away.
I actually think that of the three 'layers' to this sexual archetype that I mentioned, number (2) applies to you the most. You've already mentioned your wife's weak, alcoholic father and strong domineering mother, and how your wife feels like she has been recreating this situation with you.
But, regarding your concern:
Originally Posted By: SillyOldBear
But (and maybe my Nice Guy Syndrome is acting up) I worry. I love doing it, she loves doing it, but does that make it a good idea? Fundamentally, her "Nice Girls Don't" attitude is unhealthy and untrue. By dominating her this way, I'm basically saying to her "You're right...That can't be healthy, can it? If we do that for 20 years, how much cognitive dissonance is going to build up in her mind, and what will it do to her?
When I first started to figure out what my wife needed from me sexually, I was initially rather alarmed and taken aback myself. I doubted whether I would be able to be the dominating partner that she really needed and wanted in the bedroom. So I do understand where you are coming from here -- I've been there.
I'm no psychologist, and I won't pretend to be one for you: I'll just report what our couples/individual counselor and sex therapist told me when I went over my concerns with him...in great detail.
My wife is not, nor has ever been promiscuous, so she's not placing herself in danger with other partners, bringing home any diseases, or jeopardizing our relationship. There is only one man on this Earth that she would ever surrender herself to sexually: ME. By the same token, I am not promiscuous in any way, and there is only one woman on this Earth that I would ever 'take' forcefully and dominate: my wife. We love each other, are deeply committed to each other, and are exclusively monogamous. I have her full consent to 'take' her, and we have an established system of trust between us: I trust her to let me know if I ever make her overly uncomfortable either physically or mentally; and she trusts me to stay in complete control, monitor her safety, and stop immediately if she gives the safe-word.
Under these conditions of love and trust, our therapist encourages us to engage in whatever we want to engage in, and as long as we BOTH enjoy it, it's alright and healthy for us and our relationship. He sees great potential for us to have a vibrant and fulfilling sex life, enjoying everything from the 'light' (vanilla) variety to the 'dark' (kinky / rough) variety.
So when you wrote:
Originally Posted By: SillyOldBear
If it's as simple as "she likes to be told what to do in bed, and maybe get her hair pulled a little" then fine, I can do that. Who am I kidding? I LOVE doing that.
You were right. It IS as simple as that: you're finding out what she loves and turns her on, and if you love it and it turns YOU on too, then go for it.
Recall that I said that pathogenic beliefs regarding sex generally involve guilt and shame that we've carried with us since childhood. We all have them, and no one chooses them voluntarily. Our sexual desires and fantasies help us to overcome these sources of guilt and shame, and we usually never even know why they work for us -- we just know that THIS turns us on, while THAT doesn't. By engaging in the kind of sex that really turns your wife on and which matches her desires and fantasies, you are helping her to *overcome* those old feelings of guilt and shame, and over time, she will slowly build a revised paradigm where the guilt and shame are lessened. If she's regularly enjoying herself with the husband who loves her, then you're helping her to build a new, positive association with sex and counteract the old, negative ones. So you're helping her, not hurting her, Bear.
The other thing that you are dealing with right now is YOUR OWN Nice Boys Don't (force themselves on women) pathogenic belief. This means that you have your own sense of guilt to deal with here, and it's tempting to find something wrong with the fact that she loves it when you take her, and so do YOU. I know this from my own experience too. The ONLY thing that permits me to enjoy myself, guilt free, is the system of trust that my wife and I have established, and the research that I have done to understand where she is coming from. I have to trust that I am doing the right thing, that she wants me to dominate her, and that she's loving it when it happens. And so far, we've both enjoyed the hell out of it -- it works.
One final note on the fellatio bit: you're right in that you shouldn't have asked. As a sexual submissive, it may be nearly impossible for her to admit that she enjoyed it, even a little bit -- automatic guilt. However, since you asked, you have to take her at her word. Keep this in mind, though: as a sexual submissive, a large fraction of her enjoyment during sex will come from YOUR enjoyment -- your pleasure becomes her pleasure. So even if she doesn't personally really like it, she's still getting a turn on and a huge kick from pleasuring YOU. And given time, she may grow to like it for herself, even if she won't admit that to you. So if I were you, I would not suddenly turn all hesitant about it or feel guilty about it -- just do as comes naturally, anyway. The more you think and analyze and worry, the less enjoyment you BOTH will get out of the experience.
Best regards,
Bagheera
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
The other thing that you are dealing with right now is YOUR OWN Nice Boys Don't (force themselves on women) pathogenic belief. This means that you have your own sense of guilt to deal with here, and it's tempting to find something wrong with the fact that she loves it when you take her, and so do YOU.
That's exactly what runs through my head.
I gave myself a zero for the Fellatio Inquisition. I figure it was bad to ask, but it was good to react well, and to thank her. And I will go forward as you advised, because hey, she has a safe word, right? She can stop the train any time she wants to get off. I'm just playing a role.
Just don't forget to form a large repertoire of activities you can choose from, and mix in some 'light' nights with the 'dark' nights. You're in control, you call the shots, so start letting your OWN fantasies play a role here. Maintain a sense of variety and mystery for her: what is he going to do this time?
Too much of the same thing always gets boring, so consider these new facets to your sex life as opening up an entire spectrum of thngs that you can engage in --> eventually including some things that you probably thought your wife would never permit or enjoy. Small steps are advised, of course, moving gradually into new areas: you've got years of exploration ahead of you to enjoy.
-- B.
Last edited by Bagheera; 07/19/0803:06 AM.
Me 50, W 45, M for 26 yrs S25, D23, S13, S10 20+ year SSM; recovery began Oct 2007
If she's regularly enjoying herself with the husband who loves her, then you're helping her to build a new, positive association with sex and counteract the old, negative ones. So you're helping her, not hurting her, Bear
So tonight we had no big kids, just the baby. The twins are with my parents at an antique show (I know what you're thinking, but they love it. Dad specializes in antiques that incorporate fire, wheels, iron, explosions . . . )
We decided to go into the big town. She wanted to go to the mall, so we walked around there for awhile. We took the baby to the playground, lazed around the bookstore, stuff like that. When we left, we were hungry, so I went looking for a new Mexican restaurant I'd heard about--and it was as good as advertised. I told her how glad I am that we've been making changes, and how lucky I felt that she was willing to change with me.
I ended up telling her about a few of the stories I've read about here, including Alimari's. "If you acted like that guy, I'd just leave you." "Yeah, understood."
So we keep talking it over and I tell her about AliMari's question in "Is Sex a Miracle?" She is adamant that Alimari should confront her husband and then leave him. "She's not being paranoid. He proved he can't be trusted." she said. "I know, that's what I said, too, but she's trying to trust him more and put it behind her. I don't know how she does it." I replied. "Well, that's not paranoid. Paranoid is worrying because your husband is going on a trip with some woman he's been talking about for years. Ha ha!"
Hmm. That was her way of bringing something up without bringing it up. You see, I recently won a drawing. About a dozen people who write about guns and shooting on the errornets were chosen to go to a famous shooting school and study with a champion pistol shooter for free. This is a big deal for me, though I recognize that most people don't see what all the fuss is about. For a shooter, this is like winning a trip to Chicago to have Brian Urlacher teach you to read an offense, or a trip to Washington so Michael Jordan can give you tips on your jump shot for a weekend. It's pretty cool. I expect to shoot not only more better, but also more fastly by the end of the weekend.
Anyway, most of the group have never met in person, but it's a fairly small community writing about these issues online, and most of us are at least familiar with each others' writing. One of the group is a woman I've known online for awhile but never met. There's never been any thought of romance, but she's fun to talk to--she's got a hojillion old guns, a bajillion old computers, and she's basically a professional slacker. I've told my wife before, I don't want to date this woman, I want to be her. I just want a hojillion antique rifles and a motorcycle.
Anyway, that's the thing that made my wife jealous. And right or wrong, I enjoyed that she was a little jealous. I wanted to reassure her that there was no rational reason to worry--I am NOT going to cheat on her, ever--but I also wanted to tell her that I was touched. First, because it feels good that she feels possessive; for years, and until VERY recently, I've told myself that she'd probably be happier if I went out and got sex from someone else and quit bothering her, and that's a bleak way to live. And second, because I know it was hard for her to admit to these feelings, and even though she did it indirectly, she did it honestly. She told me the truth. She didn't have to say anything, but the trip is a month away and then I'd be gone for five days, and I just breathe a sigh of relief knowing that this is out in the open now and we can talk about it.
Does that make any sense? No, I'm not going to cheat on you, but it kinda makes me feel good that you're thinking about it and it bothers you? It's not that I want her to be unhappy, I just like knowing that she would care.
